SPQR this & SPQx that. Empires were everywhere.

This here is Lord Mayor's Dinner at Guildhall on 11/09/1829 (year according to the notice of the British Museum). The dinner was organized by William Thompson who was the Lord Mayor of London from 1828 to 1829. The dinner was held in honor of his predecessor Matthias Prime Lucas.
  • The Lord Mayor of London
Below (image source), are dinner tables occupied by the early 19th century elites.

dinner-1.jpg

Above them hungry folks, we have a beautiful ceiling. As you can see, upper walls are decorated with various flags.

dinner-2.jpg

Two of the flags have four letters - SPQL. In the historical context, there is only one meaning to these four letters:
  • SPQL - Senātus Populusque Londinii - The Senate and People of London ... the Londonian Empire?
    • As in Senātus Populusque Rōmānus for SPQR - The Senate and People of Rome ... the Roman Empire!
spql-12.jpg


The Londonian Empire
I was gonna write up a bunch of BS about some Londonian Empire the PTB forgot to tell us about but this is not how the story goes. Unfortunately, the suggested reality is not as exciting.

SPQR
-the official break down-
SPQR, an abbreviation for Senātus Populusque Rōmānus is an emblematic abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic.
  • Senātus Populusque Rōmānus - In Latin, Senātus is a nominative singular noun meaning "Senate".
  • Populusque is compounded from the nominative noun Populus, "the People", and -que, an enclitic particle meaning "and" which connects the two nominative nouns.
  • The last word, Rōmānus ("Roman") is an adjective modifying the whole of Senātus Populusque: the "Roman Senate and People", taken as a whole.
  • Thus, the phrase is translated literally as "The Roman Senate and People", or more freely as "The Senate and People of Rome".
The Vexillum
The vexillum was a flag-like object used as a military standard by units in the Ancient Roman army. The word vexillum is a derivative of the Latin word, velum, meaning a sail, which confirms the historical evidence (from coins and sculpture) that vexilla were literally "little sails": flag-like standards. In the vexillum, the cloth was draped from a horizontal crossbar suspended from a staff.
  • I guess, this image is supposed to go along with the narrative. They call it The Flag of the Roman Empire.
vex1.jpg

In reality, this here below, is the only only extant Roman vexillum (so they say). The PTB dated it with 3rd century AD. I did not find any official info on this flag's history. Here is what I did find:
  • This Roman Vexillum standard was discovered in Egypt in 1911.
  • This one is the only one to survive from the ancient world, now in the Pushkin museum.
Vexillum-Pushkin_Museum_of_Fine_Arts.jpg

KD: The one and only, ancient Roman flag, discovered in 1911 in Egypt, dated to 3rd century AD and now located in Russia. These are some usual TPTB tricks.
  • Considering that all "ancient" images are "dated" too, how would the narrative writers know what the flag of the Roman Empire could look like? By the way, why don't they call it the flag of the Roman Republic?
  • Oops. My apologies, this is not a flag, this is a vexillum.
Republic, Empire and Senate
The Senate of the Roman Empire was a political institution in the ancient Roman Empire. After the fall of the Roman Republic, the constitutional balance of power shifted from the Roman Senate to the Roman Emperor. Beginning with the first emperor, Augustus, the Emperor and the Senate were technically two co-equal branches of government. In practice, however, the actual authority of the imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power of the state.
What's interesting, while adjusting our history, the PTB provided themselves with these little-tiny escape routes.
  • The Roman Republic was not a nation-state in the modern sense, but a network of towns left to rule themselves (though with varying degrees of independence from the Roman Senate) and provinces administered by military commanders.
  • It was ruled, not by emperors, but by annually elected magistrates (Roman Consuls above all) in conjunction with the Senate.
    • KD: This is oxymoronic. So... did towns rule themselves, or by annually elected magistrates in conjunction with the Senate?
Well, the above was said about the Roman Republic. Here is what we have when we get to the Roman Empire:
  • The 200 years (of the Empire - KD) that began with Augustus's rule is traditionally regarded as the Pax Romana ("Roman Peace"). During this period, the cohesion of the empire was furthered by a degree of social stability and economic prosperity that Rome had never before experienced.
  • Uprisings in the provinces were infrequent but put down "mercilessly and swiftly" when they occurred.
KD: As you can see, the PTB is trying to dance at two weddings at the same time.
  • The term SPQR should only be applicable for the Republic, because during the empire "the actual authority of the imperial Senate was negligible, as the Emperor held the true power of the state". Per the official narrative, the imperial Senate appears to be pretty worthless. In this case, why would an Emperor of the Roman Empire even have SPQR (mentioning senate and people) on the Empire flags?
  • Simultaneously, the PTB wants this line to be present "a network of towns left to rule themselves".
    • Here is one of the reasons why.
SPQx
Let's start with basics. Per the PTB, the acronym SPQR is an emblematic abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic. Once again, the PTB (imho) did not plausibly explain why this acronym found its way into the everyday governance of the Roman Empire. Additionally, the narrative adjusters attempted to address the unexplainable:
  • The title's date of establishment is unknown, but it first appears in inscriptions of the Late Republic, from c. 80 BC onwards.
  • Beginning in 1184, the Commune of Rome struck coins in the name of the SENATVS P Q R.
  • From 1414 until 1517, the Roman Senate struck coins with a shield inscribed SPQR.
    • Yet... per the PTB "the acronym SPQR is an emblematic abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic."
All of these SPQR/X shenanigans manifested themselves in us having things like SPQL - The Senate and People of London - on the 1825 flags in London.
  • I guess we are supposed to ignore the existence of such SPQx's altogether. These are simply decorations, right?
As you may have noticed, the entire SPQR wiki page is unverified. It's a pretty small page, but it has four reminders, that the info is unverified. No movie about ancient Rome can go the full length without sticking this SPQR in our faces. Do we not have serious historians who would want to address the acronym?

spqr-11.jpg

With the above "unverified" reference in mind, take a look at this:
  • SPQx is sometimes used as an assertion of municipal pride and civic rights.
    • LOL, says who? Wouldn't it be convenient for the PTB if that's how it really was?
    • But then we verify with every individual independent x-town and see if it had people and senate at the time...
  • Further down the page we get a long list of cities associated with SPQx.
    • Senatus Populusque X
    • The Senate and People of X
The Hanseatic League
I am not implying that our ancient Rome and this Hanseatic League were one and the same, but when we come back to SPQx's, I want you to keep this information in mind:
  • The Hanseatic League was a commercial and defensive confederation of merchant guilds and market towns in Northwestern and Central Europe.
  • Growing from a few North German towns in the late 1100s, the league came to dominate Baltic maritime trade for three centuries along the coasts of Northern Europe.
  • Hansa territories stretched from the Baltic to the North Sea and inland during the Late Middle Ages, and diminished slowly after 1450.
Back to SPQx
Essentially, we have a simple issue of historical inconsistency preached by the treacherous Powers That Be. In one case SPQx stands for the entire Empire (or Republic if you wish):
  • SPQR - The Senate and People of Rome - "an abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient Roman Republic"
But in all the other instances of SPQx being used, the same rule is not being applied. Meanwhile, we should have something like this:
  • SPQx - The Senate and People of X - "an abbreviated phrase referring to the government of the ancient X Republic"
SPQx's
Let's take a looks at some of these X's our pseudo-historians would rather not have. Naturally, when something throws a wrench into your made up narrative, why would you want to attract public attention to it?
  • X can be any letter. We can have (e.g.) 15 SPQN's, as long as the name of the city starts with "N", and the city was a part of the club.
SPQS
I'm gonna start with Sienna, because this is what originally caught my attention. This London thing simply pushed me closer to writing this article.
  • SPQS: Senātus Populusque Sienus - The Senate and People of Sienna - a republic?
spqs.jpg

Source

SPQL
This is what I started this article with. In this case L will stand for London, though without trying real hard you will find one for Liverpool as well.
  • SPQL: Senātus Populusque Londinii - The Senate and People of London - a republic?
spql-1-1.jpg

Source +
Source

SPQN
As you can see from this 1695 excerpt, individual cities were declaring their own "Naplian" republics and were issued their own money, jk.
  • SPQN: Senātus Populusque Neāpolis - The Senate and People of Naples - a republic?

spqn-1.jpg


SPQP #1
I wanted to welcome you to the ancient Republic of Paris. It has never been a republic, but it was a member of the club enjoying the protection of the union.
  • SPQP: Senātus Populusque Parisiensis - The Senate and People of Paris - a republic?
spqp-1.jpg

Source

SPQP #2
I have no idea which city starting with P the below SPQP refers to. The image appears to be that of a sticker you commonly see in older books. Only this book was published in 1677.

spqp-2.jpg


SPQA
This time we will visit the ancient Republic of Antwerp. It has never been a republic, but it could be a member of the club, and enjoy the protection of the union.
  • SPQA: Senātus Populusque Antverpiensis - The Senate and People of Antwerp - a republic?
spqa-1.jpg

Source

SPQG
Are you aware of any ancient Republic of Ghent? Neither am I. This is probably due the fact, that Ghent was just a town enjoying the protection of the same club.

ghent-1.jpg

Source

SPQM
And this here is my favorite one. Could Mexico City be a member of the same club we know today under the disguise of two names: the ancient Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire?
  • SPQM: Senātus Populusque Mexicanus - The Senate and People of Mexico City - a republic?
Did you really not know about the Roman Emperor Moctezuma II?
moctezuma_II-1.jpg

Source
Cortes is visiting Moctezuma at his palace. What a wonderful palace our Moctezuma had in 1520s.

motezuma_cortez.jpg

Source
The reason I consider SPQM (with M for Mexico) to be significant is this - by the time Columbus "discovered" America (with Dark Ages factored in), any SPQx abbreviation applied to Mexico should sound like a bunch of historical BS of historic proportions. Yet, we somehow have it.

Oh, and by the way. Meet the founding fathers of the world famous Mexico City.
Duran_Codex_Eagle-aztecs.jpg

And these are your average Azteca Indians in front of "his Highness".

aztecs-13.jpg

Highness's feet could be a good match these socks.

To complete the picture I wanted to add a comical mention of SPQx.

SPQC
May be we deserve the history we have. If at some point, the PTB was able to sell us the below narrative, we truly are an ignorant bunch, deserving nothing else. There are many archaeological and historical facts supporting the notion, that the "ancient Roman" style vanished just prior to the beginning of the 19th century. For example, try to find a Roman bust discovered prior to 1750s.

This here is one additional reference to the German city of Cologne. Dumb luck was the reason I ran into this Cologne example. I'm pretty sure that with diligent research, additional European cities could display similar traits.

spqc-13.jpg

Source
In other words, all the way up to ~1780s, people could run into something like this in the streets. Who would have thought that entire cities were into role playing in the late 18th century?

roman_fasces_6.jpg

Could we have some (poorly edited out) toga wearers in this photograph?
napoleonstatue_1.jpg


KD: I think I'm gonna stop here. We have as many of these SPQx's as there were cities and towns who purchased a club membership in the Roman Empire (or, if you prefer, the Holy Roman Empire) union. I can make only four conclusions out of the above mess:
  • #1. It's either SPQR aka Senātus Populusque Rōmānus had nothing to do with the Ancient Rome and Roman Empire/Republic,
    • but had everything to do with the actual city of Rome, or...
  • #2. we had hundreds of tiny (ancient and holy) town-empires identifiable by SPQx aka Senātus Populusque X.
  • #3. Tenochtitlan somehow became a member of the Roman club years before Columbus discovered America.
  • #4. With this factored in, our ancient Roman club did not exist prior to 14th-15th centuries.
It does appear that the structure of the Roman club (that is if it was not the same thing) was very reminiscent of our Hanseatic League.
 

Sonofabor

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One first blush, one might tie this to the S and P 500 - the large cap US stock index.

Just as the small cap index is known as The Russell 2000.

All roads lead to London and thereabouts...
 
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    I would have never thought about the Standard of Poor. Care to elaborate a bit?
     

    Sonofabor

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    Well, the cash options index's ticker is SPX. The ETF's is SPY-- commonly called the Spiders, after SPDR-- the more full abbreviation of the index. Standard and Poor seems like a name for the masses. It doesn't add up precisely, but it sure rhymes. And I put a lot of work into the Russells, once upon a time-- one of the 13 families. Spider reminds me Nietzche, who referred to TPTB as the spider. They sit in their web, which is a spy network....

    (later addition)

    As for the Q, exhibit C: The ticker for the Nasdaq, the technology index ETF is QQQ.

    So with the S and P and the Nasdaq and the Russell, we have SPQR....
     
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    Silveryou

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    Sometimes it pays off to read the narrative:
    • Members of the senatorial order were distinguished by a broad reddish-purple stripe edging their togas – the formal dress of all Roman citizens.
    • Source - Senate of the Roman Empire
    So, we have ancient roman senators in Mexico.

    View attachment 7904
    From the OP
    I don't know where you are going but maybe we share the same thought... My own thought is that Latins were not Romans and they were the same people who call themselves Latins in our time: Latin-Americans.

    An Italian researcher, Riccardo Magnani, claims that America is represented in Renaissance paintings. Here some examples:
    • "The Birth of Venus" by Botticelli (1485 AD) the Americas are represented as the veils held by the Hora of Spring
    7be283a1-d1ae-4b99-8c71-18c0a93973aa_1.de75ad45cb8f60ad6ded1b3266cac860.jpeg

    Cattura1.jpg
    • "The Vision of Saint Eustace" by Pisanello (1438 AD)​
    800px-Pisanello_018.jpg

    Cattura3.jpg
    • "Journey of the Magi" by Benozzo Gozzoli (1459 AD)​
    Gozzoli_magi.jpg

    Cattura.jpg
    • "Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta in preghiera davanti a San Sigismondo" (Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta in prey before San Sigismondo) by Piero della Francesca (1451 AD)​
    800px-Piero,_Sigismondo_Pandolfo_Malatesta_before_Saint_Sigismund_01.jpg

    Cattura4.jpg

    "Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta in preghiera davanti a San Sigismondo" is preserved in the Tempio Malatestiano in Rimini, which is located on the 44th parallel.

    Cattura5.jpg

    Here Saint Sigismund (aka Sigismund of Burgundy, supposedly dead in 524 AD) is portayed with the same appearance of Georgius Gemistus Pletho (1355/1360 AD – 1452/1454 AD).

    Cattura7.jpg

    I would like to add (this is my personal point of view) that Sigismund of Luxembourg, Holy Roman Emperor, lived in the same period of Pletho (15 February 1368 AD – 9 December 1437 AD). Here one of his portaits by, guess who? Pisanello!

    Pisanello_024b.jpg

    Saint Sigismund also holds in his hands the symbols of the power of Roman Emperors.
    • "Portrait of a Princess" by Pisanello (1435 AD), representing Ginevra d'Este, wife of Sigismondo Pandolfo Malatesta​
    800px-Pisanello_016.jpg

    Cattura6.jpg
    • In the fresco "Journey of the Magi" by Benozzo Gozzoli (1459 AD), Cosimo de' Medici is represented wearing a so-called "Mascapaicha", the royal crown of the Emperor of the Tahuantinsuyo, more commonly known as the Inca Empire. The Mascaipacha was the imperial symbol, worn only by the Sapa Inca as King of Cusco and Emperor of the Tahuantinsuyo.​
    Cappella_dei_magi,_parete_ovest_senza_scantonatura.jpg

    Cattura18.jpg

    It should be noted, and this is my personal thought, that Cosimo de' Medici complexion is also different from the other characters represented in the procession. Different and peculiar, given that the artist was very skilled in representing a variety of complexions and customes throughout the composition.

    Cosimo di Giovanni de' Medici, called "the Elder" (Italian: il Vecchio) and posthumously "Father of the Fatherland" (Latin: pater patriae) (27 September 1389 – 1 August 1464) was Lord of Florence from 6 October 1434 AD to 1 August 1464 AD.
    Pachacuti Inca Yupanqui (Quechua: Pachakutiq Inka Yupanki) was the ninth Sapa Inca (1418–1471/1472) of the Kingdom of Cusco which he transformed into the Inca Empire (Quechua: Tawantinsuyu). His reign started in 1438 AD and ended in 1471/1472 AD.
     
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  • Silveryou

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    I was merely referring to SPQM mentioned in the OP being complemented by this.

    What I meant is that the clothing style you showed in the image is not really suitable for Europe. It could be maybe used in some regions on the Mediterranean Sea, but not in continental Europe. The colouring pattern on those togas could be a big hint to the real identity of the Latins, imo.
     
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    Well, if this account has any merit, we could be talking about a totally different climate fairly recently.

    I think I’ve read somewhere that the skin of the elephants was lacking something required to handle prolonged periods of cold weather. The article was actually about mammoths, and that their skin was the exact same way. Basically it was claimed that mammoths like elephants could not handle cold weather and lived in a warm climate. Some of them instantaneously froze to death in Siberia with buttercups and dandelions in their stomachs. And when mammoths really went extinct is a highly debatable issue.
     
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    We are conditioned to assigning the PTB provided time frames based on things like clothing. Meanwhile, the narrative demonstrates substantial fashion changes between, let’s say 1600’s and 1900’s. That looks normal to us. Yet, somehow, “ancient Romans” ended up wearing same togas for a thousand years without going through any noticeable changes to their attire. There are many movies about different stages of the existence of the ancient Roman culture. But, regardless of the time period, e.g. Roman Kingdom, Roman Republic or Roman Empire, those poor suckers are wearing the same stuff. That’s like 1200 years without progressing to something different. I call BS on that. Reading about their fashion we can only see slight changes in the way they were decorating their togas.

    By entrenching things like that in our brains, the PTB can date artifacts depicting people with great confidence and without fear of being questioned.

    I think that our understanding of fashion epochs is fundamentally wrong, and things are not as black and white as they are being portrayed. This is why we have dudes wearing togas and protected by lictors marching down the street of Cologne in 1780s, and this is why SPQx’s are being downplayed.

    Settling down for explanations similar to “everything ancient was popular at the time” sets us up for failure, imho.

    Who knows? May be togas came after some of the fashions we assign to let’s say 1400’s, or may be togas existed simultaneously with those for a few hundred years. May be togas were just uniforms for occasional events, or may be that’s what they wore in some parts of the world during summer, and in warmer parts of the world year round.
     
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