1459: Fort Mehrangarh, Jodhpur and the Indus River

A while ago, I happened to run into Sotheby's lot #362. At the time I was researching something about trains, and web browsing brought me to this 1902 train car, which I thought looked too advanced for its time. There was a massive fort on one of the photographs. Its appearance was enough to pick my interest.

fort-mehrangarh-1.jpg

Finally, I have a moment to take a closer look at this enormous structure. Here is what Fort Mehrangarh looks like today.

north-india-jodhpur.jpg

north-india-jodhpur2.jpg


Fort Mehrangarh
Let's see what the narrative says. Fort Mehrangarh, located in Jodhpur, is one of the largest forts in India. Built in around 1459 by Rao Jodha, the fort is situated 410 feet (125 m) above the city and is enclosed by imposing thick walls. Inside its boundaries there are several palaces known for their intricate carvings and expansive courtyards.
  • These include, Moti Mahal (Pearl Palace), Phool Mahal (Flower Palace), Sheesha Mahal (Mirror Palace), Sileh Khana and Daulat Khana.
Entry to the fort is gained through a series of seven gates. The most famous of the gates are:
  • Jai Pol ("Gate of Victory"), built by Maharaja Man Singh in 1806 to celebrate his victory in a war with Jaipur and Bikaner.
  • Fateh Pol, built to celebrate a victory over the Mughals in 1707;
  • Dedh Kamgra Pol, which still bears the scars of bombardment by cannonballs;
  • Loha Pol, which is the final gate into the main part of the fort complex. Immediately to the left are the handprints of the ranis who in 1843 immolated themselves on the funeral pyre of their husband, Maharaja Man Singh.
A winding road leads to and from the Jodhpur.
  • KD: Delivering construction materials in 1459 had to be a real fun task. They probably had to invite some ancient Egyptian slaves.
Etymology
Mehrangarh ('Mihir' (Sanskrit) -sun or Sun-deity; 'garh' (Sanskrit)-fort; i.e.'Sun-fort'); according to Rajasthani language pronunciation conventions, 'Mihirgarh' has changed to 'Mehrangarh'; the Sun-deity has been the chief deity of the Rathore dynasty.
  • Essentially, we are being told that it's a Sun Fort.
Jodhpur
Jodhpur is the second-largest city in the Indian state of Rajasthan and officially the second metropolitan city of the state with a population surpassing 1.5 million. Jodhpur was historically the capital of the Kingdom of Marwar, which is now part of Rajasthan. It is popularly known as the "Blue City" among people of Rajasthan and all over India.
Rao Jodha
Rao Jodha was a ruler of Mandore in the present-day state of Rajasthan. He was the son of Rao Ranmal (Rao Ridmal) of the Rathore clan. He is known for founding the city of Jodhpur in 1459.
  • Below is a totally worthless depiction of Rao Jodha. Lies of this type are abundant in our deceiving narrative. Wikipedia borrowed this image from here. It looks like we do not know who produced this depiction, or when. At the same time, we somehow know who this gentleman is.
Rao Jodha
jodh-Jodhaji.jpg

03/28/1416 - 04/06/1489

Additionally, we have a statue honoring this esteemed gentleman. But the announcement to make the statue was made on May 12, 2007. This statue is 16 feet long, 5.6 feet wide and 15 feet high, and has been made by Fakirchand, a statue artist in Haridwar.
5 years later...
rao-jodha-ji-statue-and.jpg

Source

One year after his accession to the throne, Jodha decided to move his capital to the safer location of Jodhpur, as the one thousand years old Mandore fort was no longer considered to provide sufficient security.

Construction
The foundation of the fort was decided on 12 May 1459 by Jodha on a rocky hill 9 kilometres (5.6 mi) to the south of Mandore. This hill was known as Bhakurcheeria, the mountain of birds.
  • According to legend to build the fort he had to displace the hill's sole human occupant, a hermit called Cheeria Nathji, the lord of birds.
  • Cheeria Nathji was a man with the local population as his followers and hence influential in the region.
  • When requested to move he refused categorically.
  • This happened many times.
Rao Jodha then took extreme measures and sought help from another more powerful saint, the female warrior sage of Charan caste Shri Karni Mata of Deshnok.
  • On request of the king she came and asked Cheeria Nathji to quit immediately.
  • Seeing a superior power, Cheeria Nathji left at once but cursed Rao Jodha with words "Jodha!
    • May your citadel ever suffer a scarcity of water!".
  • Rao Jodha managed to appease the hermit by building a house and a temple in the fort.
Seeing the influence of Karni Mata, Rao Jodha then invited her to lay down the foundation stone of the Mehrangarh Fort and the same was carried out by her.

To ensure that the new site proved propitious; he buried a man of the Meghwal caste called "Raja Ram Meghwal", who offered his services voluntarily, alive in the foundations as this was considered auspicious those days.

NOTE: Though the fortress was originally started in 1459 by Rao Jodha, founder of Jodhpur, most of the fort which stands today dates from the period of Maharaja Jaswant Singh (1638–78).
  • Naturally, we are being told, that it was this gentleman below, who built "most of the fort".
Jaswant Singh Rathore
Jaswant_Singh_of_Marwar.jpg

12/26/1629 - 12/28/1678

KD: That's about all we have as far as the information pertaining to the construction of this huge structure goes.


Filtering through BS
Every time I see a ridiculous story like this, I have tons of questions. Where are our professional historians? This question is always the first one. Do they not care to get to the bottom of this stuff? With all the resources and various levels of access available to our scientific community, this BS info is all they could produce?
  • Who really built this fort, how and when?
  • How would people living within the bounds of the 15th century logistics come up with something like this fort?
Cheeria Nathji vs. Karni Mata
With all the sentimental mumbo-jumbo put aside, let's ask ourselves a very simple question. Why would Rao Jodha (a ruler of Mandore, a conqueror of many places) care about some hermit's opinion. This Cheeria Nathji dude was the hill's sole human occupant, and our ruler Rao Jodha, for whatever reason, could not get him to get off the hill...

sparta.jpg
  • Why was it so difficult for the Ruler to either influence hermit Cheeria Nathji to abandon the hill?
    • or to simply remove him by force?
  • Why to solve this problem, our Ruler had to invite some Karni Mata "saint" lady?
    • What special "wonder woman" powers did Karni Mata have, to make Cheeria Nathji "leave at once"?
I like how selective some of the phrases (we get) really are, the hermit was "the hill's sole human occupant". What's that supposed to mean?
  • Were there other non-human occupants?
  • Or, was he the only non-human occupant of the hill, but the PTB wanted to emphasize that he was human?
Now, I'm no expert on the info presented in the claimed original sources of the history of Rajasthan, but I'm capable of reading, and analyzing the narrative. So, we have:
  • 1. Cheeria Nathji of Mehrangarh
  • 2. Shri Nathji of Nathdwara
- India is pretty big. What are the chances? -
directions2.jpg

Map

I do not know much about hermits, but this guy claims that he knows a thing, or two. And, apparently, not every hermit was created equal.
  • Eventually, warrior sage Karni Mata (incarnation of the warrior goddess Hinglaj) was able to influence this "seven-year-old god" Shri Nathji to vacate the premises.
  • As a true upset seven year old, before he left, he shut off the water supply valve.
  • Judging by the size of the lion, our Karni Mata was pretty big. As far as Shri Nathji's wings go... well, so what if the dude could fly?
karni-matavshermit.jpg

KD: Sounds like the hill was possibly occupied by one of those antediluvian, chimera Nephilim type giants. For whatever reason, a more powerful giant Karni Mata, assisted Rao Jodha with getting Shri Nathji "displaced".

Maps
fort-mehrangarh-2.jpg

Map
We can see where our Fort Mehrangarh is located on the today's map. Let's find out what we had at the approximate location back in the day. Knowing that the PTB is in love with renaming places, chances are, we won't see anything named Jodhpur or Mehrangarh until some time in the 19th century.
  • ...and about 30 minutes into it, I begin to understand what I'm seeing on the older maps. Please, bear with me.
One of the first things we learn is actually pretty amazing:
  • 300-350 years ago, the Indus River riverbed was totally not where it is today. And today it is here.
The Indus River
- it is not -
indus-R.jpg


This is actually pretty funny, and tells us tons about the PTB narrative. We all know that during "ancient" times, rivers were paramount to different bla-bla-bla civilizational developments. Here is some narrative for you:
  • The Indus River (called Sindhū in Sanskrit) is one of the main rivers of the Indo-Gangetic Plain in the Indian subcontinent.
  • It flows through China, India, and Pakistan. Originating in the Tibetan Plateau in the vicinity of Lake Manasarovar, the river runs a course through the Ladakh region of India towards Gilgit-Baltistan, and then flows in a southerly direction along the entire length of Pakistan to merge into the Arabian Sea near the port city of Karachi in Sindh.
karachi-1.jpg
  • The river has historically been important to many cultures of the region.
  • The 3rd millennium BC saw the rise of a major urban civilization of the Bronze Age.
  • Early historical kingdoms that arose in the Indus Valley include Gandhāra, and the Ror dynasty of Sauvīra.
  • The Indus River came into the knowledge of the West early in the classical period, when King Darius of Persia sent his Greek subject Scylax of Caryanda to explore the river, c. 515 BC.
  • Indus River
The BS is getting thicker, for here enters the:

Indus Valley Civilization
The Indus Valley Civilisation was a Bronze Age civilisation in the northwestern regions of South Asia, lasting from 3300 BCE to 1300 BCE, and in its mature form from 2600 BCE to 1900 BCE. Together with ancient Egypt and Mesopotamia, it was one of three early civilisations of the Near East and South Asia, and of the three, the most widespread, its sites spanning an area stretching from northeast Afghanistan, through much of Pakistan, and into western and northwestern India. It flourished in the basins of the Indus River, which flows through the length of Pakistan, and along a system of perennial, mostly monsoon-fed, rivers that once coursed in the vicinity of the seasonal Ghaggar-Hakra river in northwest India and eastern Pakistan.

Indus_Valley_Civilization,_Mature_Phase_(2600-1900_BCE).jpg

The civilisation's cities were noted for their urban planning, baked brick houses, elaborate drainage systems, water supply systems, clusters of large non-residential buildings, and new techniques in handicraft (carnelian products, seal carving) and metallurgy (copper, bronze, lead, and tin). The large cities of Mohenjo-daro and Harappa very likely grew to contain between 30,000 and 60,000 individuals, and the civilisation itself during its florescence may have contained between one and five million individuals.
  • Gradual drying of the region's soil during the 3rd millennium BCE may have been the initial spur for the urbanisation associated with the civilisation, but eventually weaker monsoons and reduced water supply caused the civilisation's demise, and to scatter its population eastward and southward.
  • The Indus civilisation is also known as the Harappan Civilisation, after its type site, Harappa, the first of its sites to be excavated early in the 20th century in what was then the Punjab province of British India and now is Pakistan.
  • The discovery of Harappa and soon afterwards Mohenjo-daro was the culmination of work beginning in 1861 with the founding of the Archaeological Survey of India during the British Raj.
  • There were however earlier and later cultures often called Early Harappan and Late Harappan in the same area; for this reason, the Harappan civilisation is sometimes called the Mature Harappan to distinguish it from these other cultures.
  • Indus Valley Civilisation
Guess What?
So, if ~300 years ago, the Indus River did not merge into the Arabian sea at Karachi, but instead did so some 400 miles south-east of Karachi:
karachi-1-not.jpg


The Real Indus River
Now, I'm pretty sure, the PTB have their butts covered, but I was not able to figure out what their explanation of this one could be. Let's inspect some older maps, and try to determine when the Indus River name was re-assigned to a totally different river.
  • Today's Indus River used to be called Ilment River or R. de Diul River.
    • I think it's a combination of rivers there.
  • Today's Mahi River, or Sabarmati River used to be called Indus River.
    • Same for these two rivers. It was probably a combo.
May be in the process we could determine when a major cataclysmic event took place.

1570
1570-indus.jpg

Source

1595
1611-indus.jpg

Source

1623
1623-indus.jpg

Source

1652
1652-indus.jpg

Source

1665
1665-indus.jpg

Source


This is where I was not even surprised. I was expecting a date close to 1666, because this is when, imho, the Santorini Group was formed.
1676
- what happened? -
1676-indus.jpg

Source

1691
1691-indus.jpg

Source
Basically, from here our Indus River designation was reassigned to a river (or a group of rivers) located NW of my question mark above.
As you can see, at least for the below 1800 map, it was not Ilment/Il-Mend River that was destined to become the Indus River. It was R. de Diul River.
  • I am figuring this out as I go. I'm not gonna do minor adjustments above.
1800
1800-map.jpg

Source

KD: What could happen close to year 1666 for one Indus River to virtually disappear, and for a much smaller distant river to become big enough to be called The Indus River?
  • I did not try to establish whether the headwaters did not change. It is highly likely the location of the headwaters could be the same.
  • But this 350-400 mile shift of the merging point that took place approximately 350 years ago should've been recorded somewhere. Was it?
  • What happens now to the river assisted, millenia old so-called Indus Valley Civilisation.
    • The map below shows (approximately) where it was supposed to be located at.
    • According to the PTB, the Indus River greatly assisted, and influenced the Indus Valley Civilization. What now?
    • Additionally, keep in mind where the world famous Mohenjo-daro is located.
now-1.jpg


Back to Jodhpur
As we can see, Jodhpur is located just north of the Luni River. According to the narrative compilers, Luni River could also be called Lavanaravi river.

Luni-river.jpg

Let's build somewhat of a reference picture to where our Jodhpur is located. We will also add a few lines for Jaipur, because it has a fairly similar sounding name.

now-13.jpg

I'm pretty positive that on the below 1834 map we have our Jodhpur, and our Luni River.
  • As you can see it is spelled Joudpoor.
1834
1834-map.jpg

Source
Let's work our way back in time, and see if there could be an unreported name or two for Jodhpur.
  • The below 1829 map spells our city as Jhodepour.
1829
1829-map.jpg

Source
The below 1818 map could be interesting not because there is no Jodhpur on it (at least I don't see it), but because its says:
  • Little known to Europeans Country. Why?
  • Who exactly was mapping this area for over 250 years?
1818
1818-map.jpg

Source

I like how all over sudden we have stuff like "The supposed course of the Caggar River" on the below 1817 map.
  • Additionally, our Luni River is being called Puddar River.
  • The spelling of the city is Joodpoor.
1817
1817-map.jpg

And here is one additional 1817 map. What's going on with the Puddar River there?
  • The spelling is Jhodepoor
1817
1817-map2.jpg

Source

On this 1806 map our Luni River is called Pudder River.
  • The city is spelled Joodpour.
1806
1806-map.jpg

Source

I am not sure I like my reference angles on the below 1800 map, but we are still above 26°, so let's keep it.
  • We have Jodepour. It is also explained that it's a residence of the King of Marwar.
  • I do not see our Luni River, but it could be referred to as "This must be the Paddar of the Maps"
1800
1800-map.jpg

Source

Pre-1800
It appears that maps predating 1800 do not have our Jodhpur, or any of its other spellings. There are plenty of towns or cities on the Puddar River, but they appear to have different names. Judging by some of the maps predating1800, it does appear that either the city of Jodhpur, or the Fortress Mehrangarh could have been called:
  • Azmer, or Asmere?
1691
1691-indus4.jpg

Source

1784
azmer-1.jpg

Source

1687
azmer-x.jpg

Source
Sounds and looks like they moved Dehli as well.

1570-1612
delli-1.jpg

Source

Pre-1666
It does appear that prior to 1666 (or thereabouts), if there was a city, or fortress in the same spot, it was not named Azmer, at least. not yet. It kind of looks like its name could have been Ardavat, but I'm not sure.
  • I think more important that it was located on the Indus River,
  • and was a part of the real Indus Valley Civilisation (if there ever was such a thing)
1652
1652-indus-13.jpg

Source
NOTE: Ardavat is different from Armadabat.

1633
cambaia.jpg

Source


KD: I think I will allow myself to summarize the above:
  • Our history is a bunch of BS.
  • The Indus River had a different merging point as recently as ~350 years ago.
  • From what I see:
    • Ardavat might have been renamed as Azmer
      • I think Azmer and our present day Ajmer are not the same.
    • Azmer might have been renamed as Jodhpur
      • Sounds like new owners might have done some renaming there.
Ardavat I am not that sure about. The description of Azmer sounds spot on? One way or the other, Jodhpur appears to be a newer name. It was used to replace an older one. Azmer does not look like the original name either.
  • Just like I was saying, this is something our honest professional historians should be looking at. I could be wrong on some of the picked town names, but I'm confident that the above mentioned issues do exist.
P. S. I still have no clue how this fort could have been built with what they had back then.
 

Right Arm

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Well i got about half way through this thread and started to think, this is why there is a "new Delhi".

This fort also has a massive perimeter wall that is almost a mile away from the fort.

Screenshot 2021-01-21 at 22.03.30.jpg

Funny bit of trivia is that the Batman Dark Knight pit scene was filmed in the grounds of this fort.

I would also say that this fort has been rebuilt on what seems to be an even larger fort that is now so old that it looks to my eyes at least a couple of thousand years before due to the weathering.

Screenshot 2021-01-21 at 22.12.06.jpg

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One of the citadels many gates.

Screenshot 2021-01-21 at 22.18.17.jpg

It really is inconceivably big

Screenshot 2021-01-21 at 22.24.25.jpg

With the old maps of India the continent seems to have grown a little, in size I mean, just a thought!
Jodhpur also has one of the staircases to the underground.

toorji-ka-jhalra-step-well-in-jodhpur-india.jpg
 
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    I did not even know there was this perimeter wall that far out. Thank you.
    I would also say that this fort has been rebuilt on what seems to be an even larger fort that is now so old that it looks to my eyes at least a couple of thousand years before due to the weathering.
    I think you could be right, it definitely seems to have some man (or whoever/whatever) made construction materials.
     

    jd755

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    A thought. Are there any Hindu or Muslim maps that could shed some light on this place, or even Sikh or Moghul maps and an outside bet being Chinese maps. I have some recall, well a little, of Muslim historians and mapmakers from before the demise of SHorg The Forum but buggered if I can recall which thread they were in, sorry.
    Should circumstances permit I will have a ratch around, but the daymarkers are occupying things at the mo.
     

    SparRoxy

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    Researchers find proof of ancient ‘atomic war’ a great many years prior

    The link above is to a story about evidence of great devastation in the area. An excerpt of that story is below ;

    "Did our old precursors have very trend-setting innovation matching the atomic abilities of today? There is proof from remnants in India supporting that guarantee. There are additionally antiquated fantasies, which depict scenes coordinating our cutting edge comprehension of nuclear fighting.

    Writings from a great many years prior appear to contain what could be deciphered as precise portrayals of atomic blasts, practically identical to the one in Nagasaki in World War II.

    Take the incomparable Sanskrit epic from India called the Mahabharata. It recounts fate and devastation, with entries that appear to precisely portray the impacts and repercussions of an atomic war.

    Enormous blasts “more brilliant than a thousand suns” were recorded, just as cadavers consumed to the point that they were unrecognizable. There were likewise numerous different sections fitting the cutting edge portrayal of an atomic assault.

    As indicated by this legend, the individuals who endure the disaster lost their hair and fingernails a short time later, while nourishment supplies were polluted—this all matches our comprehension of the impacts of radiation harming and radioactive defilement in the fallout of a nuclear blast"


    That might be enough to change the course of a river or make you move out of your fort.
     
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    Totally agree, but time frames of the events have to be adjusted accordingly.

    The PTB wants everyone’s attention attracted to Mohenjo-daro, while we should probably be looking for a place closer to headwaters. The river had to change its course somewhere.
     
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