What event turned Scythia into Tartary?

A while back I ran into the map below. It's always interesting why geographical names change, but we rarely get any explanations. This transition from Scythia to Tartary is not an exception. As far as I understand, it's impossible to estimate the true size of Scythia due to the lack of available information. By that I do not imply that it was bigger than Tartary.



Contemplating the origins of the name "Tartary" you can't help it but think about words like Greek Tartarus, or our good old sticky tar. Searching for etymological origins did not produce any definitive answers. An opinion similar to the below one was expected:
  • Spelling was influenced by Latin Tartarus “Hell in Greek mythology.” - source
I do not know, may be Potassium Bitartrate could have something to do with the name of the country, but Tartarus sounds more convincing at the moment. And if Scythia was indeed turned into Tartarus, could the below article be somehow related to the entire issue:
I do understand that 200 and 500 years differ in duration, but what do we really know about our chronology?

Our history researching community is trying to find high levels of technology in Tartary. Instead we get texts talking about barbarian hordes roaming the area and living in tents. At the same time, such descriptions do not match the ones provided by people similar to Marco Polo. These descriptions are also not supported by the multitude of cities and towns present on the older maps of Tartary.
  • Tartaria, que Sarmatiam Asiaticam & vtramque Scythiam veterum comprehendit.
  • KD: I can't get a meaningful translation for the above. If you have any ideas, please share below.


I doubt that tent dwellers would bother building cities similar to Quinsay. But... we have Prester John to cover.

Prester John: Africa vs. Asia
Prester John was a legendary Christian patriarch and king. Stories popular in Europe between the 12th and 17th centuries told of a Christian patriarch and king who was allegedly ruled over an Oriental Christian nation lost amid the pagans and Muslims. Those were the same lands in which the patriarch of the Saint Thomas Christians resided. The accounts are varied collections of medieval popular fantasy, depicting Prester John as a descendant of the Three Magi, ruling a kingdom full of riches, marvels, and strange creatures.
As far as I understand, various sources place Prester John in two major areas, with one being Africa, and the other one India. At first, Prester John was imagined to reside in India; tales of the Nestorian Christians' evangelistic success there and of Thomas the Apostle's subcontinental travels as documented in works like the Acts of Thomas probably provided the first seeds of the legend.



After the coming of the Mongols to the Western world, accounts placed the king in Central Asia, and eventually Portuguese explorers came to believe that they had found him in Ethiopia.

For the purposes of this article, it is irrelevant whether Prester John lived in Africa or Asia. This is a totally separate topic, and I plan on tackling it in the future.

This is what we have written on the above 1598 map titled Tartariae Sive Magni Chami Regni typus.
  • Argon. Once there was in Asia a Christian kingdom known to Prester John, and D. Thomas founded it in this place, so that it was in contact with the church of Rome, and was subjected to Rome through Prester John of Africa. Before it was defeated by the Goths, it was known as Criue Romoue.

Criue Romoue
I doubt too many of us have heard of this Criue Romoue. Meanwhile, if it was located somewhere in the Manchurian region, it could inflict some serious damage to the traditional narrative.

Prester John and D. Thomas
So, we have Prester John and some D. Thomas. Who could this D. Thomas be? Establishing who this D. Thomas was, could help us better understand historical time frames we are dealing with. It won't assist with dates much, but it could help out with figuring out who was alive at the time.

D. Thomas aka Judas aka Brother of Jesus.
Thomas the Apostle is commonly known as Doubting Thomas because he doubted Jesus' resurrection when first told of it; later, he confessed his faith, "My Lord and my God," on seeing Jesus' crucifixion wounds.
  • Thomas the Apostle
  • According to the legend, Thomas was a skilled carpenter and was bidden to build a palace for the king. However, the Apostle decided to teach the king a lesson by devoting the royal grant to acts of charity and thereby laying up treasure for the heavenly abode. Although little is known of the immediate growth of the church, Bar-Daisan (154–223) reports that in his time there were Christian tribes in North India which claimed to have been converted by Thomas and to have books and relics to prove it.
D. Thomas could also mean Didymus Thomas.

Searching for Prester John Thomas produced the following lines:
  • The letter notes that John is the guardian of the shrine of St. Thomas, the apostle to India.
  • An apocryphal letter, widely disseminated from 1165 on, from this ruler to the Byzantine Emperor Manuel I Comnenus made Prester John the guardian of the tomb of the Apostle Thomas in Mylapore.
  • Reportedly a descendant of one of the Three Magi, Prester John was a generous ruler and a virtuous man, presiding over a realm full of riches and strange creatures (centaurs, Amazons, giants), in which the Patriarch of St. Thomas resided. His kingdom contained such marvels as the Fountain of Youth, and it even bordered the Earthly Paradise. Among his treasures was a mirror through which every province could be seen. There were no poor people, no dissensions, no vices in his dominions. The legend of Prester John (also Presbyter John) held such sway over the European imagination from the 12th through the 17th centuries that most historians believe it developed around some kernel of fact.
KD Opinion: I think D. Thomas, mentioned on the 1598 map, was Thomas the Apostle aka Jesus's brother Jude. That is just my opinion. To be honest, for the purposes of this article, it's not really important if they were one and the same. What's important is that they (or he) lived at the same time frame with Jesus.

Time Frames
If Thomas the Apostle indeed founded Argon, he did so not that long after our narrative compliant AD 30/33 and prior to AD 72 (that's when he allegedly died). We all know that our chronology is all screwed up. IMHO, cannons were around prior to Jesus being born, for we can see cannons being used at the Battle of Alesia in AD 52.
Battle of Alesia
battle at alesia-11.jpg

We can also see the Double Headed Eagle of the the so-called Holy Roman Empire aka Roman Empire. There is a lot of baloney in the Eagle related Wiki piece, but Double Headers are for a different article. I will just say that we are dealing with years after the beginning of the Age of Discovery here, which is after AD 1400.


Our Eagle is the symbolism at its best, and in my opinion represents our realm. Just like I mentioned above, the eagle is a topic in itself, but to make a point, I do have to do a brief rundown on it. In my opinion, one will never truly understand its meaning, unless he/she draws our famous set of St. Peter's crossed keys by hand.

Seneschal: The word seneschal can have several different meanings, all of which reflect certain types of supervising or administering in a historic context.
In other words, these are the keys to our realm aka Theatrum Orbis Terrarum, and the Double Headed Eagle is the representation of this Theatrum Orbis Terrarum.

In the New Testament, praetorium refers to the palace of Pontius Pilate, the Roman "prefect" of Judea, which is believed to have been in one of the residential palaces built by Herod the Great for himself in Jerusalem. This is so convenient, for if the palace belonged to Pontius Pilate himself, there could have been one too many unpleasant questions.

Without being a part of the HRE aka Roman Empire, Pontius Pilate would have never had the double headed eagle on his palace, or on his "raised seat." We are not supposed to think that it was a throne. By the way, the palace, as well, is being called court in most places. Funny, but Pilate is not even a name, and he was a prelate, not a governor or procurator. Wouldn't it be something if a certain bishop contributed to the death of a certain Savior? Of course, a procurator would sounds much safer for the narrative and its creators. There is so much more to it...



Jesus in front of Pontius Pilate

Painting by Jan Joest
As far as TPTB claims of the tremendous antiquity assigned to some of the double headed eagles, simply remember, that we live in the world of pre-1400's copies, rumors and hearsays. This world could be billions of years old, but our sources are very young.

This 2nd millennium BC eagle below is not that old, and can't be much older than any other double headed bird out there.


The narrative compilers will tell us otherwise, but their tools of trade do become more and more obvious:
Jesus and Days of Noah
We have no way of knowing how many times the "Jesus Event" has taken place. May be the BC/AD one was the first one, and may be it was not. Our Bible is a questionable source, but we do not have too many JESUS EVENT related sources to start with. Anyways, there Matthew 24 goes.

The Destruction of the Temple and Signs of the End Times
  • 36: But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
  • 37: As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
  • 38: For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark;
  • 39: and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
  • 40: Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left.
  • 41: Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.
Essentially we are being told that our JESUS EVENT comes when it is "As it was in the days of Noah." Noah lived for 600 years before the Flood and for 350 years after the Flood, but whatever triggered the Flood happened prior to the Flood. And Genesis tells us what happened:
  • Genesis 6.5 - And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
  • Genesis 6.11 - The earth also was corrupt before God, and the earth was filled with violence.
  • Genesis 6.12 - God saw the earth, and behold, it was corrupt, for all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth.
  • Genesis 6.13 - And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
In the Bible there is no explanation of what "corrupt" means, but the answers can be had in various apocrypha and pseudepigrapha. And it looks like we are talking about genetic impurities here. Those would be our crossbreeds like Centaurs, Minotaurs, Cynocephali, Blemmyes, etc.
  • Jubelees 7:24: And after this they (Nephilim) sinned against the beasts and birds, and all that moved and walked on the earth, and much blood was shed on the earth, and men continually desired only what was useless and evil.

In English it would sound something like this. During the pre-Flood days of Noah all human and animal (God created) DNA became corrupted with Nephilim DNA. It was not done through sex, but through knowledge and science.
For additional details read the following article on this blog: Mutiny in the Sky or a Short History of the World

The Jesus Event
As you remember from the above, Prester John was a ruler presiding over a realm full of riches and strange creatures like centaurs. Centaurs (and other beings) were not created by God. Their existence should have contributed to achieving "As it was in the days of Noah" when "all flesh had corrupted their way on the earth". The JESUS EVENT was triggered, and we sure did have Jesus (BC/AD) who somehow paid for the sins of men. Once again we have no giants, no chimeras and no non-human humanoids that we know of. But... at some point "Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left" and "Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left".

15th Century
The Age of Discovery should be renamed, for it really was the Age of Re-Discovery. IMHO, the reason Scythia became Tartary could be related to the JESUS EVENT taking place some time prior to the 1400s. These early 1400s were the time frame when everything started happening. Shortly after, droves of ruin artists started to "make stuff up".


Additionally, we know that text originals do not exist and first copies of the non-existent ancient originals were located after 1418. And even the 15th century itself is questionable, because 1482 and 1631 appear to mean the exact same date. For details see bullets #6, #7 and #10 here: Pompeiigate Scandal. Chronology Issues.

At the same time, it does appear that we did inherit some of the pre-JESUS EVENT knowledge. Here is where we can see it:
The way I see it, most of what we know as Myths and Legends took place before the JESUS EVENT. Later they was censored and presented to us in its current mythological state.

As far as the coming of Jesus in BC/AC goes... why was he sent here in first place. We are so used to the cliché answers similar to this one:
  • We could never have a life worthy of God on our own. So Jesus lived a life without sin on our behalf. And then he died the painful death our sins deserve.
  • By sacrificing himself for us on the cross, he took the punishment for all of our sins at once.
  • This made him the ultimate sacrifice - once and for all satisfying the demands God’s justice required.
    • KD: But... As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man.
Do we really know what any of that is supposed to mean? At the same time it does appear that the JESUS EVENT will keep on happening every time "the days of Noah" repeat themselves.

The Scythia related narrative is so ambiguous and convoluted, that reading it requires tons of effort. Scythia was a region of Central Eurasia in classical antiquity, occupied by the Eastern Iranian Scythians, encompassing Central Asia and parts of Eastern Europe east of the Vistula River, with the eastern edges of the region vaguely defined by the Greeks. The Ancient Greeks gave the name Scythia (or Great Scythia) to all the lands north-east of Europe and the northern coast of the Black Sea. During the Iron Age the region saw the flourishing of Scythian cultures.
  • The Scythians - the Greeks' name for this initially nomadic people - inhabited Scythia from at least the 11th century BC to the 2nd century AD. In the seventh century BC, the Scythians controlled large swaths of territory throughout Eurasia, from the Black Sea across Siberia to the borders of China. Its location and extent varied over time, but it usually extended farther to the west and significantly farther to the east than is indicated on the map. Some sources document that the Scythians were energetic but peaceful people. Not much is known about them.
  • By the 3rd century AD, the Sarmatians and last remnants of the Scythians were dominated by the Alans, and were being overwhelmed by the Goths. By the early Middle Ages, the Scythians and the Sarmatians had been largely assimilated and absorbed by early Slavs.
  • The name of the Scythians survived in the region of Scythia. Early authors continued to use the term "Scythian", applying it to many groups unrelated to the original Scythians, such as Huns, Goths, Türks, Avars, Khazars, and other unnamed nomads.
KD: We can summarize now - "Not much is known about them." But... they somehow could make these.


Maps of Scythia
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like we have any decent maps of Scythia to work with. Everything we have was produced after 1400s. This is what I was able to find, but other than empty spaces and unfamiliar names, they are not really useful. None of these maps show us any signs of powerful infrastructure.
1535 Asiae_Tabula_VII___Margiana.jpeg 1584 Asiae_Tabula_VII___Continet.jpeg 1665 - Cimmeria_quae_postea_Scythia_Europaea.jpeg 1698 Asiae Scythiam Extra Imaum ac Sericam.jpg Scythia_et_Serica-ca1740.jpg

Kings of Scythia
Apparently when the below 1179 book was written, they did not know about the Scythian Gold. Same old probables, perhapses and seemses in 1779.


I am not sure how to explain this royal inconsistency. How come the number and identity of the Scythian Kings provided to us by the today's PTB, does not match the PTB record from 1779?

As you can see, we do not know jack about anything. Yup, in 1779, the PTB was using the exact same tools of the trade. Additionally, it appears (if you reed between the lines) that the narrative prefers the word Thracian. Who needs Scythians?


And even the above 1779 "Kings of Scythia" list is incomplete, for here are three coats of arms of Scythian Kings and Queens. Only Thomyris is in the above 1779 cutout.


Scythians Ceneus and Minthia are covered here. As far as Tomyris goes, here is what the same 1779 book says.


Somehow coats of arms matched again. How could that happen?


1590 Source

Queen Tomyris Rejects Cyrus's Proposal of Marriage
This 1535-50 tapestry belongs to a series of five depicting scenes from the life of Cyrus the Great, legendary founder of the Persian empire. Herodotus tells of an attack by Cyrus on a distant land ruled by Queen Tomyris. Cyrus sacrificed a portion of his army to entrap the enemy by leaving them behind feasting on a large banquet. Tomyris’s troops, led by her son Spargapises, attacked Cyrus’s decoy troops, then stopped to consume the remains of the food and wine. Cyrus ambushed them and captured the queen’s son. Although Cyrus freed Spargapises, he immediately took his own life.
  • In revenge, Tomyris led her troops against Cyrus. After defeating his army, she searched the battlefield for Cyrus’s corpse and exacted her vengeance by dipping the body in blood – giving him his “fill of blood” as she had vowed. Grand gestures and elaborate costumes were frequently employed in tapestry design. The figures are expertly situated in a landscape, which serves as the setting for other elements of the story. In this tapestry, Queen Tomyris rejects Cyrus's marriage proposal while his troops advance in the background.

If this is what one of the Scythian towns really looked like (in addition to the foreground structures), we are in trouble.


There are plenty of older books talking about Scythians. Looks like they did not know much either. It does appear that they were a bit more exposed to the knowledge than we currently are, but it still was not close enough.
We also have interesting unverifiable pieces of information like this.

There are quite a few fascinating texts out there, but just like I said, it does not look like the info was authorized for disclosure even back then. I will post a few book links for those who want to dive in. Other ones you can search for yourselves.
Scythian Coins
After seeing what the PTB calls Scythian Gold, I am not quite sure whether our historians are that stupid, or simply want to disrespect their audience. Scythian masters were probably incapable of producing such junk even when they were drunk.
scythian coins-1.jpg

Most of the golden coins are titled Thracian/Scythian or Indo-Scythian, but all of them are junk when compared to the alleged Scythian Gold craftsmanship. I do not think these coins have anything to do with the makers of the Scythian Gold.

Scythian Settlements
This excavation segment should have gone to the Hall of Fame section. Scythians, for the most part, existed between 8th century BC and 2nd century BC. According to our mudflooded reality, their so-called settlements should have been under 15-20 feet of dirt. Instead we have this:
They need to be careful not to disturb those dinosaur bones while they're at it.



KD: Unfortunately, I was unable to get to Argon, Tenduc, Serica and other interesting names mentioned on this 1598 map. As you can see, this article got out of hands and is too long as is. To be honest, I doubt that we have any information drastically different from the offered narrative. At the same time little differences do present themselves. For example, I noticed that where older texts say "Scythian", some of our contemporary ones use the word "Thracian".

I have to admit, that with Scythia, the PTB did a pretty good job purging the house. Yet, I do believe that there is some information waiting to be found out there.
-Tartaria olim Scythia-
I think it was the event that devastated the Americas, North Africa, and the Caucasus. St. Thomas - Quetzalcoatl. For the life of me I have not been able to relocate the source that stated Noah's last name was Tartarorum. But we have plenty of other sources and maps with Noah/Noe in Tartaria. So what once would have been Scythia and other regions like Thracia could have quite literally just been renamed to Noah's Kingdom or the remnants of the flood. It would also explain why this empire has been disappeared.
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Found one reference that I don't have access to.
Noe Tartarorum in Confounding Powers Anarchy and International from the Assassins to AlQaeda. "A furore Tartarorum libera nos" by William J. Brenner
In the below excerpt we have a reference to some Noah in the Tartarian region. I am not sure whether they suggest that Prester John was Noah's son or not.

I will definitely spend some time looking for this info. Have never heard about it.
I had posted it on the original website during the mini shutdown where we lost a few days of entries. So if there's anyway you have any sort of archive or backup from that period it's there.
I had posted it on the original website during the mini shutdown where we lost a few days of entries. So if there's anyway you have any sort of archive or backup from that period it's there.
Back up was run once a week at the time. That particular event fell in between.
that coin is a Dacian koson.
May be. I know very little about coins and have to rely on those who claim that they do. It sounds that even professional historians are not sure what Koson means:
As far as these coins go. Who knows what they are?
Here is another opinion:
  • It is now common to see them listed as either Scythian from Dacia or Thracian from Northern Greece but for the purposes of this article I will refer to them as Dacian, as that is the region where they are usually found.
they do not mention they have only been found in Transylvania and the other relics with them were Dacian. it is unfortunate that the dacians were so stupid as to not have coins or writing considering they were the richest tribe on earth. and the Sinai tablets must be fake because they explain that the basis of mythology/religion is true and it all took place in central/Eastern Europe. give the dacians some credit and our whole understanding of mankind will change.
I don’t know. May be they did have coins, it’s just may be this Koson was not one of them.

This historically unrecorded Dacian King Koson could be no king, but a mere coiner as was stated in this older pub. I believe the coin is also described in there. According to the description, the dude in between two lictors is Brutus.


May be this could explain such a drastic difference between this coin and the so-called Scythian gold.
  • I see that the eagle is not holding the laurel in his beak, but the rest looks close enough.
from wiki
"Modern scholars agree that the name Koson most likely refers to a local king about whom nothing else is known. Vasile Pârvan argues that he was probably a Thracian dynast who employed the Dacian Getae tribe in plundering raids across the Danube, paying them in his coins. Theodor Mommsen argued that Koson was probably a Dacian ally of Brutus, since the coins seem to derive their imagery from those minted by Brutus himself. Recent scholars often argue that he is very likely to be identical to the "Cotison" mentioned by Horace (Odes III., 8, 18,) and Suetonius, (Augustus, 63.), a Dacian king during the reign of Augustus who had raided over the Danube."

being dacian would explain why their quality is no where near Scythian standards.
Found part of it -

George Horn 1666 Arca Noe


That is before the flood Noah mentions Tartaria, because it was a legendary place to have/inhabit/own/posses.

Now I know another source is out there that goes on to describe him being born there that I found off a chain of searches from this text. I believe "natur" is somewhere in the text.
@Mabzynn, well, if the existence of Tartary was a fairly recent historical occurrence, then may be our Noah’s Flood did not happen as long ago as the narrative says it did.

Exactly the author uses the word Tatarorum instead of Scythia which he uses multiple times throughout the text as well. There's a source out there that indicates he was born in Tartaria (maybe even Americam) or at least definitely visited the Americas as well.

See here -


There's so much good information in this book I can't recommend it enough. A lot on Cathay and the different sects of Christian Tartar's. Like the Jakuthi (descendants of Iaphet) who believed in a Trinity or "Artugon." This is where I got the information on the early Nestorian's who were conquered by other groups of Tartar's who inhabited Cathayum. Mentions of Presti Joan and Presbyter Iohannes in the Nestorian region which had ties to Tibet. Unadchan (Magnorum Tartarorum) and Vngchan were other Christian Tartar Kingdoms.

It does say what happened to Scythia is not clear because it was before Alexander the Great.

I am not exactly friends with Latin, hence reserve to English. There are a few interesting texts out there. I have no clue what Noah and Scythians could have in common, but apparently they do. If Noah's flood did really take place circa 4004 BC, then there would have to be like 3,000 years between Noah and Scythians.


I also have no idea who this "Caesaria Noah his Niece" is supposed to be.


Just a fun fact - prester (or præst/præster) in Danish/scandinavian languages means priest - prester John would mean John the priest. Wonder if there's any correlation with our friend John the Baptist/Yahya? He was after all the first to recognize JC and was considered by the Mandeans to be the real deal whereas JC was a false prophet. Naturally he was beheaded...
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