400 year old Sahara Desert, or why people forgot everything they knew about Africa

whitewave

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Probably over 10 years ago I checked out Fomenko's theory of shortening history and found that it seems incorrect, so I'm not inclined to suppose that history is wrong to such an extreme, but I believe in being open-minded and I may like to do a scientific comparison of several similar theories to try to make a determination of what the probability is for each one, kind of like what I did with Earth models a year ago.
Could you expound further (maybe make a new thread?) on why you disagree with Fomenko? His work has been critiqued and scrutinized by mathematicians and historians alike with no real debunking of his findings (of which I'm aware). If you have an alternate hypothesis or would just like to explain what you found that "seems incorrect" (and why), I for one, would be very interested to hear your thoughts.
 

Red Bird

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I happened to read this last night in a history of the reformation written by Helen White in the late 1800’s.

In fulfillment of this prophecy there occurred, in the year 1755, the most terrible earthquake that has ever been recorded. Though commonly known as the earthquake of Lisbon, it extended to the greater part of Europe, Africa, and America. It was felt in Greenland, in the West Indies, in the island of Madeira, in Norway and Sweden, Great Britain and Ireland. It pervaded an extent of not less than four million square miles. In Africa the shock was almost as severe as in Europe. A great part of Algiers was destroyed; and a short distance from Morocco, a village containing eight or ten thousand inhabitants was swallowed up. A vast wave swept over the coast of Spain and Africa engulfing cities and causing great destruction.
It was in Spain and Portugal that the shock manifested its extreme violence. At Cadiz the inflowing wave was said to be sixty feet high. Mountains, "some of the largest in Portugal, were impetuously shaken, as it were, from their very foundations, and some of them opened at their summits, which were split and rent in a wonderful manner, huge masses of them being thrown down into the adjacent valleys. Flames are related to have issued from these mountains."-- Sir Charles Lyell, Principles of Geology, page 495

Everything I find elsewhere just talks about Lisbon itself, philosophy or something. Nothing about Africa and each article pretty much parroting each other and probably from the same source, Wikipedia. The internet is censored in more ways than Google.

This doesn’t explain all of the African anomalies but can be added in to the evidence bucket.
 

ScottFreeman

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Your are a very perceptive man. We put this form into a category called intelligent recon. Meaning a state where you drop all preconceived ideas and all known previous knowledge. your goal is to see everything as if you have never been to Earth. So ask yourself what you see, hear, smell, feel and what does it mean to you. One lands in silence and starts understanding your surroundings.
Everyone on this site has a story. I would suggest that they are holding back waiting for someone else to start their conversation.

Every person wants to be liked and not ignored or rejected. So they hold the good info back. Now your with a group that needs evidence, but evidence could be different for each person looking at the same picture. Your buddies knew you were telling the truth because they also were having unique experiences. As recon we do not fully know what were looking for, but when you see it, all bets are off.
You will get better results by giving the group ideas to research. Your project will get results quicker.

A engineer in my group thinks the sand is a by product of heavy mining of rare earth minerals. My ranting is over for today.
Aren't we told that every grain of sand on every beach was the result of millions of years of parrot fish grinding coral? I called BS on that when I first heard it.
 

maco144

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There have been some interesting ideas for how the sand appeared there, especially interesting are those through electric phenomena. I will add that glass can be turned back into sand through compaction. If we have a huge glass firmament above us (which separates the waters above), perhaps that glass above was reverted back to sand which rained down both sand and water creating deserts and the great flood. Those craters could be the energetic/kymatic signatures of the sonoluminescent (assumption) stars above as well which without the glass barrier left their imprint upon the newly rained down sand.

Lots of assumptions and I don't know how to advance the idea further but I can't propose any obvious objections to why this would be impossible or highly improbable.

While not directly Sahara related there is a misunderstood thing known as Libyan Desert Glass that is important to know about when considering desert related theories. I'll C&P more info below.

"Between the borders of Egypt and Libya is the Great Sand Sea, an enormous sandy desert that stretches about 650 km from north to south and 300 km from east to west, covering an area the size of Ireland. Prevailing winds have organized this great sand mass into huge longitudinal crested dunes rising 100 meters high at places and stretching uninterrupted for hundreds of kilometers, separated by flat corridors about a kilometer or two wide. In these long narrow gaps are areas where the underlying bedrock is exposed. In these exposed surfaces a curious natural glass is found.

The so called Libyan Desert Glass is the purest natural silica glass ever found on earth. The glass is generally yellow in color. It can be very clear or it can be a milky, and even contain tiny bubbles, white wisps, and inky black swirls. Over a thousand tons of these glass are strewn across hundreds of kilometers of bleak desert. Most of these are the size of pebbles polished smooth by the abrasive action of the blowing sand. Others are chunks of considerable size and weight. The biggest piece ever found weighed around 26 kg."

The Libyan Desert Glass (LDG) is in its chemical and physical characteristics absolutely unique and with no other natural glass comparable (volcanic glass, Tektites and impact glass). Nevertheless should be evidences for an impact origin the presence of schlieren and partly digested mineral phases, and Lechatelierite (a high-temperature mineral melts of quartz, however at slight pressure), and Baddeleyite, a high-temperature breakdown product of Zircon. But the so characteristic inclusions of small crystals of alpha-Tridymite and alpha-Cristobalite are missing in impact glasses. Also typical for tektite are spherical or drops - formed aerodynamic forms.

There are however also differences between the LDG and the "classical" impact glasses, mainly by the chemistry. LDG is a very silica-rich natural glass with about 95.5 - 99 wt.% SiO2, and shows a limited variation in major and trace element abundances. The degree of hardness (MOHS) is 6, the specific weight is 2.2 g/cm3, the refractive index is 1.46.
The viscosity is essentially greater than at tektites. The melting point is with 1727-1713° C more as 500° higher, than which other natural glasses. The Desert Glass differs from the Tektites also by higher capacity of water inclusions (0.050 - 0.200 wt.%). The colours of the LDG's varies from light-yellow, honey-yellow, green-yellow, milky-white to black-grey. "

Tutanhkamun’s pendant features a scarab (the light green stone in the center) carved from desert glass

18274
 

Denise

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Some alternative history buffs might take offense to you referring to the elites as "people" :p

The Iraq thing -- yes, antiquity and relic looting was extremely common, though, of course, it's "hard to tell" who's been stealing what!
Unfortunately since the demise of reality we have idiots at the helm and people have become so dis-spondent to reality. They are blindly accepting idiotic concepts and will be enslaved do to their lack of desire for more.
 

hajni

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Whilst I agree with the overall assessment that the Sahara is far younger than Science tells us, and your research strikes a chord with me, to the point that I very much am on board with your thesis, I do think it would be useful to point out that the 1570 map does have 'deserta' written on it around central Sahara. I am pointing out not to negate your prognosis as it certainly doesn't do that in my mind but as it is perhaps a crease to iron out. Certainly that map, amongst the others has far sufficient evidence to suggest that the Sahara was far more inhabitable than it is these days.

I have a fairly distant, and unfortunately hard to pinpoint memory of me being aware of a place called the Kingdom of Sara from somewhere (Max Igan???), although I must admit that I enjoy his voice for going to sleep to, so I often have vague memories. Is this something you have come across?

A brief web search brings up a character from Dr Who, called Sara Kingdom. Curiously an even briefer search of her web page cites slightly strange sounding episodes appeared in. For instance 'Home Truths; 'The Drowned World;' 'The Destroyers' ' Coronas of the Sun' I do think it is a fair assessment to write this off as coincidence (or that writers of sci-fi programmes probably look to myth for inspiration). However reading some of the wikipedia quotes have eerie parallels. For instance, one episode the Doctor activates a device called the Time Destructor, a device that accelerates time to stop the Daleks. The device rapidly ages everything around it. Sara Kingdom ages to dust.
I have a fairly distant, and unfortunately hard to pinpoint memory of me being aware of a place called the Kingdom of Sara from somewhere (Max Igan???), although I must admit that I enjoy his voice for going to sleep to, so I often have vague memories. Is this something you have come across?
Do You mean Kingdom of Saba? kingdom in southern Arabia (region of modern-day Yemen) The identification of the Queen of Sheba with the Kingdom of Saba has led some to conclude that she was an Ethiopian queen from central Africa since there was a Saba in Africa which seems linguistically, or at least culturally, associated with the kingdom in Arabia. The Ancient Kingdom of Saba (Sheba – Modern Yemen)
I've tried but can't find anymore the Newearth video about Petra, where she has showed pictures about stone walls, which look like they were melted by extreme heat in some catastrophe.


here is the Newearth Petra video, the pictures are at the end of it

Apparently, some cartographers of the "not so distant" past, failed to consult with the scientists of the 20th and 21st centuries. Somehow, in the 16th, and 17th centuries the map makers forgot to update their maps with the wisdom of the scientists of the future. Instead they depicted the Sahara Desert the way it was back then, 400 - 450 years ago. And what a beautiful site it was: lakes, rivers, cities, people, animals. Everything but the Great Egyptian Pyramids, so to speak.
I've red an interesting article about the Sahara and the Amazonian Rainforest connections in a paper of Garry Gilligan . The Amazon Rainforest – The Thunderbolts Project ™

He asks: Could the Amazon rainforest be only a few thousand years old?
Some quotations from his work:
The barren Sahara desert – the lifeblood of the Amazon rainforest
It is estimated 54,000 tons of desert dust flow from Africa to South America every day.
The minerals in the dust dissolve into water droplets and fall on the Amazon as rain. In this way, a staggering 40 million tons of African desert dust is delivered to the Amazon every year. Without this remarkable arrangement in nature the Amazonian rainforest – with all its plant and animal life, and all its astounding biodiversity – could not exist as we know it.
at the and of his paper he writes:
Maybe much of what we see today has been shaped by some very recent catastrophic events in the heavens.
my question is: how recent the events were?

There are many pictures about geoglyphs and ruins underneath the rainforest canopy, there also lived people, who built them, who had similar culture, than other people of the wordl.

image_5183e-Geoglyphs-of-Acre.jpg
 
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Red Bird

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I wasn’t sure where to put this but this thread seemed good. Although after rereading perhaps it has to with the fasces?

A little blurb from an 1855 book of how the second king of Rome (after Romulus), Numa Pompilius, was apparently able to draw down lightening from heaven...

The priests of Paganism assumed the very same power; and, to enforce the belief of their spiritual power, they even attempted to bring down the literal lightnings from heaven; yea, there seems some reason to believe that they actually succeeded, and anticipated the splendid discovery of Dr. Franklin. Numa Pompilius is said to have done so with complete success. Tullus Hostilius, his successor, imitating his example, perished in the attempt, himself and his whole family being struck, like Professor Reichman in recent times, with the lightning he was endeavouring to draw down. * Such were the wonder-working powers attributed in the Divine Word to the beast that was to come up from the earth; and by the old Babylonian type these very powers were all pretended to be exercised.

And it goes back even further to the Etruscans.
* The means appointed for drawing down the lightning were described in the books of the Etrurian Tages. Numa had copied from these books, and had left commentaries behind him on the subject, which Tallus had misunderstood, and hence the catastrophe.

Professor Reichman brings us into St. Petersburg in the mid 1700’s
 
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asatiger1966

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You are quite right about that. There are modern stories about amazing discoveries that got shut down DURING discovery and of decent people having their reputations and lives ruined for daring to state the obvious with their discoveries. I've got a list of many of those around here somewhere.
Here is one example that we were aware of, when Dr. Steen acted before thinking it through.

Data Rejection

Inconvenient Dating in Mexico


Dr. Virginia Steen-McIntyre, a geologist working for the US Geological Survey (USGS), who was dispatched to an archaeological site in Mexico to date a group of artifacts in the 1970s. This travesty also illustrates how far established scientists will go to guard orthodox tenets.

McIntyre used state-of-the-art equipment and backed up her results by using four different methods, but her results were off the chart. The lead archaeologist expected a date of 25,000 years or less, and the geologist's finding was 250,000 years or more.

The figure of 25,000 years or less was critical to the Bering Strait "crossing" theory, and it was the motivation behind the head archaeologist's tossing Steen-McIntyre's results in the circular file and asking for a new series of dating tests. This sort of reaction does not occur when dates match the expected chronological model that supports accepted theories.

Steen-McIntyre was given a chance to retract her conclusions, but she refused. She found it hard thereafter to get her papers published and she lost a teaching job at an American university.

Dr. Steen did the right thing by not retracting her findings. We would have advised her to find an Allie , with considerable standing,in a tangent community and work out a slow roll out.

Any time you allege a conspiracy is afoot, especially in the field of science, you are treading on thin ice. We tend to be very skeptical about conspiracies--unless the Mafia or some Muslim radicals are behind the alleged plot. But the evidence is overwhelming and the irony is that much of it is in plain view.

The good news is that the players are obvious. Their game plan and even their play-by-play tactics are transparent, once you learn to spot them. However, it is not so easy to penetrate through the smokescreen of propaganda and disinformation to get to their underlying motives and goals. It would be convenient if we could point to a plumber's unit and a boldface liar like Richard Nixon, but this is a more subtle operation.

The bad news: the conspiracy is global and there are many vested interest groups. A cursory investigation yields the usual suspects: scientists with a theoretical axe to grind, careers to further and the status quo to maintain. Their modus operandi is "The Big Lie" -- and the bigger and more widely publicized, the better.

Let the evidence to the contrary be damned!
 

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Worsaae

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Not to take away from all the info provided in this thread but I would like to point out that on the second map it says "Deserta" right in the middle of where the modern Sahara desert is
 
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KorbenDallas

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Not to take away from all the info provided in this thread but I would like to point out that on the second map it says "Deserta" right in the middle of where the modern Sahara desert is
Good spot. How do we translate the following:
  • I Y B I AE DESERTA ab incolis Sar dicta
 

Red Bird

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Y B 1 1 AR abandoned by the locals called Salisbury
Google translate

The numbers could be surveying terminology, perhaps in Arabic, 1:1, (guess from search results that came up with modern surveying symbols).
 
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UnusualBean

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Good spot. How do we translate the following:
  • I Y B I AE DESERTA ab incolis Sar dicta
That's Lybiae Deserta. I don't know what it's called, but the sideways " symbol after the Y appears to dictate that the text will continue after some kind of break, like the line breaks in the title. In this case Lybiae was broken by the city of Gyr (I guess rivers don't count as breaks).

Anyway, that name could mean "Libyan Desert(s)" or "Libyan Wasteland(s)" or even "Abandoned Land(s) of Libya".

I'd guess the whole thing as roughly "Lybiae Deserta, from: as called by the residents of Sar"

Now this is where things get interesting. Sar appears to be a region of Iberia, modern day Galicia, inhabited by Celtic Gauls. So basically in 1570 a bunch of Celts in Iberia were considered the authorities on naming a region of Africa, and they chose to name it as deserted..? :unsure:

I did a small bit of digging around and it seems that there's a theory that a small portion of Celts are descended from North Africa due to some shared DNA, but of course the theory puts this migration at thousands of years ago. If the sandy desert we know today is only a few hundred years old though, it could've been in the process of becoming a desert at the time the map was made, and the migration of those people could've been very recent, causing the map maker to consider them the right people to name the region.

Just a thought.

Edit: In the ngram viewer "Lybiae" appears around the same time "Sahara" does, both in the 1700s. The map says 1570, but is it possible it was actually made in 1750 and they just switched the numbers around? :unsure: :unsure: :unsure:
 
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Silent Bob

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I also found it interesting that Libya covered a much larger area south of it's present location before the desert. I wonder if the old saying 'The Barbarians from the north' was coined by Libya at this time, as they did literally have Barbarians to the north! I find it odd that there is no mention of the county 'Barbaria' in any of the official explanations of who the Barbarians were, just that it kept changing to relate to all sorts of different groups.

This also made me think of Gadafi's great man made river, an incredible achievement.

The Great Man-Made River of Gaddafi: What Happened To It?

It makes more sense that he could do this now we see maps with lakes and rivers as recently as a few hundred years ago. It would be interesting to overlay the location of Gadafi's water well fields with the old maps showing lakes and rivers, see if any match.
 

SuperTrouper

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Does anyone have any idea what these lines may be? Remnants of old city grid? They go for miles. By the way, this is located in southwestern Mali, near the town of Fadougou, close to the Senegalese border.

Mali.PNG
 

WarningGuy

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Hey, this link should take you directly to the area. You won't be able to miss the lines...
Thanks cobber ill have a look. Cheers.
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Does anyone have any idea what these lines may be? Remnants of old city grid? They go for miles. By the way, this is located in southwestern Mali, near the town of Fadougou, close to the Senegalese border.

The lines have something to do with mining i would say. It looks to me to have had bulldozers through to make access for mobile drill rigs to be able to get in to do testing. If you follow the RN2 road up about 30 km there are more lines like these right next to some big holes in the ground being open cut mines.
 
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