What Is Your Timeline Of World Events?

Jef Demolder

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I fully agree with Silvanus that the parish records have not been falsified. For my paternal family I can go back to 1470. The Demolders always lived in the same region in West-Flanders, and I think that, in Flanders, 1450 is about the furthest you can reach with parish registers, if you have luck, because for the majority of parishes ancient registers have been destroyed in the course of time. I am sure that also after 1500 political and religious history have been falsified, but within the frame of a continued civilization. Family histories in my country are one of the reasons why until now I do not accept theories about world catastropes with impact in Western Europe after 1450.
 

Silvanus777

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1450! Impressive, Jef!!

I too have a very hard time reconciling cataclysmic occurrences in Western Europe within the last 500, +/-50 years. However, I am very open to the idea. When it comes to other parts of the world, such as Siberia and wider Russia, even Eastern Europe or Africa as so impressively demonstrated in recent threads here, I think it's a different story altogether. Wild thought: Could this simply mean that Europe could have been the area from which some nefarious powers operated, causing the devastations in the northern half of Africa, in Tartaria etc. in the 18th, up to the 19th century? Well, it is a no brainer that Europe in the last 500 years was the nexus of colonial aggressors and seat of a Catholic Church with world domination ambitions, even according to history text books. The question is, if there really were major continental catastrophes in Africa, Asia and elsewhere, with Western Europe staying stable enough for continuos, undisturbed parochial record-keeping to go on from 1450/1500 onwards - can this be explained naturally or did somebody, somewhere in Europe possess technologies able to cause other parts of the earth to be devastated? Again, just wild thinking! ;-)#

Addendum: A pre-16th century Western European cataclysm I find highly likely on the other hand. Even local legends here in Austria seem to point to a flooding of large parts of the country not too far back in history. Most of the Austrian lakes have an origin story involving fertile and lush valleys suddenly being flooded, even with water coming out of the ground rather than from above (similar to the biblical flood account), and even stories about castles sinking into the ground (think earthquakes and soil liquefaction). These stories are told as if they happened in a medieval setting, not as something that happened in some far, far distant primordeal time. Of course stories are modified and change over time, but the ubiquitous nature of these in Austria (can't say anything about other European countries) make me think...
 
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dreamtime

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@Jef Demolder and @Silvanus777

Really fascinating! Your ancestry research is fully in line with what we can see on the maps. Western Europe was fully spared the major map changes that are visible in Africa, Asia, Russia and America!

Have a look at the Fra Mauro map - Wikipedia of 1450, and the cities, rivers and coastal lines in Western Europe have been pretty much stable since then.

Compare it was a modern image, and indeed Europe is the lone survivor.

Fra_Mauro_World_Map_Satellite_Comparison_1.jpg
A pre-16th century Western European cataclysm I find highly likely on the other hand. Even local legends here in Austria seem to point to a flooding of large parts of the country not too far back in history. Most of the Austrian lakes have an origin story involving fertile and lush valleys suddenly being flooded, even with water coming out of the ground rather than from above (similar to the biblical flood account), and even stories about castles sinking into the ground (think earthquakes and soil liquefaction). These stories are told as if they happened in a medieval setting, not as something that happened in some far, far distant primordeal time. Of course stories are modified and change over time, but the ubiquitous nature of these in Austria (can't say anything about other European countries) make me think...
I think something happened in Europe in around 1700 as well - destroying large number of forttresses and castles, as shown in the wildheretic thread.

I remember entire cities disappearing in Ireland in that time frame. I just think Europe was spared the most, so that for most people life just went on, even though the destruction was real. Curios if there are any traces in the records.
 
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Silvanus777

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Yes, exactly!

This always makes me think about the classic myth of Phaeton, by which the (phantom) "Greco-Romans" supposedly explained the origin of the Sahara if I remember correctly... Phaeton stole the carriage pulling the sun across the sky from Apollo (I think), and he, not able to controll the horses, strayed from the sun's course and almost crashed it to the earth, and, coming to close to the ground, the sun burnt Africa where now the Sahara extends...

Well, isn't that perfect. Just look at the spherical projection of our Earth up there and observe the areas of desertification (or should I say: devastation? ;-). It makes a 90 circle from what formerly was part of Tartaria, nowadays Mongolia, the Indus Region, Persia, Mesopotamia, Arabia and into the Sahara Desert. Since the Greco-Romans (as presented to us) are a later invented construct, all the Greek and Roman myths are - in my opinion - fables concocted during and even after the Renaissance period of poets, popes and forgers (when incidentally all the supposedly ancient Greek manuscripts mysteriously emerged...). They are fables, I believe, that hide parts of our true history. In a way of course so nobody could ever really reconstruct the true history clearly and without many doubts. Could the story of Phaeton scorching Africa with the Sun carriage be an allegorical, purposley mystified re-telling of what lead to the huge changes we see reflected in African map changes between the 18th and the 19th century, similarly Tartary etc.? And would we be talking about the sun sun (you know the real on in the sky!), or is "sun" yet another deceptively allegorical term, meaning a weapon (as in the "power" of the sun, i.e. atomic fusion bombs??). Wild speculations... Got my doubts about atomic bombs btw, but that's beside the point here... ;-)
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It's in Ovid's Metamorphoses, Book 2. Here's part of a book summary I found that describes it better than I did:

Phaethon took the horses up into the sky and the chariot raced out of control because the boy couldn't control the horses. Weaving throughout the constellations and up to the apex of the sun's journey, the horses ran wild through the sky leaving a trail of fire behind them that dried the rivers of the earth and evaporated the oceans. The heat turned the skin of the Aethiops black and created the vast Sahara desert. Even the heavens were in flames. The earth cracked and trembled in pain and Mother Earth cried out to Jove for help. Jove could not make it rain because all the water had disappeared, so he hurled a lightning bolt to knock Phaethon and the chariot from the sky. The bolt extinguished the great fire and killed Phaethon.
Well, since Northern Africa still had its rivers, lakes and cities, it seems Ovid must have been either a prophet or a 18th/19th century gentleman.
(Just some good old fun polemic, I can, as of yet, not deal in certainties! ;-) )
I think something happened in Europe in around 1700 as well - destroying large number of forttresses and castles, as shown in the wildheretic thread.

I remember entire cities disappearing in Ireland in that time frame. I just think Europe was spared the most, so that for most people life just went on, even though the destruction was real. Curios if there are any traces in the records.
I agree. Some things of that sort must have happened, though more or less localized, and not completely continent-spanning - maybe at different times at different places during this general time frame. Fortresses, walls, ramparts, star-forts and the like structures were destroyed and dismantled en masse even in the 18th century here - and I got more to say on that. I am only a bit incredulous of a massive cataclysm that devastated the whole of Europe and would have wiped out masses of people. I think we do agree though.

I think the dismantling of old structures/infrastructure like castles or ramparts, purging of cities from the land and the memory of the people have not happened by catastrophe, but have been done by mility force/actions, under some pretext or another to satisfy the curiosity of the common folks so to say, and to be recorded as such in the annals of history. I think I have some indications of history purging campaigns having gone on in my area, especially 18th century. This could have been very similar in nature to what's being done in today's Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. Occupy or invade a place or conduct other military operations under some military/political context, then let your armies throw down ramparts, castles and other significant remnants and residues of former times that do not fit the new story! Nothing new under the sun folks, nothing new under the sun... :D:p
 
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Searching

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Phaeton stole the carriage pulling the sun across the sky from Apollo (I think), and he, not able to controll the horses, strayed from the sun's course and almost crashed it to the earth, and, coming to close to the ground, the sun burnt Africa where now the Sahara extends...
I think this story is a personification of a real event. It's science and history in disguise. Phaethon is a Photon, born of his father Helios, the sun. A Phaeton is a 4-wheeled carriage; perhaps that represents the sun's four electromagnetic fields.
 

Absyllyon

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Ragnarok - Twilight of the Gods and the Doom of Man
For interest, here is a narrated story of the Nordic version of the change over of the sun and the moon and the devastation (Ragnarok) it caused.
How are the sun and the moon different from the previous sun and moon other than the 2 wolves that pursued them?
What mechanism do the wolves represent?
Are there any other correlations from other myths?
Perhaps Ragnorok eventuated in the 14th century.
Where is this other earth? Perhaps another land on the endless plane Tesla spoke of.

1543094034216.png


Children Of Odin: The Book of Northern Myths
1. Far Away and Long Ago

Once there was another Sun and Moon, different from the ones we see now. Sol was the name of that Sun and Mani was the name of that Moon. But wolves always followed behind...

Here is another version of interest from this blog :The Baldwin Project: The Children of Odin by Padraic Colum


THE TWILIGHT OF THE GODS
SNOW fell on the four quarters of the world; icy winds blew from every side; the sun and the moon were hidden by storms. It was the Fimbul Winter: no spring came and no summer; no autumn brought harvest or fruit, and winter grew into winter again

There was three years' winter. The first was called the Winter of Winds: storms blew and snows drove down and frosts were mighty. The children of men might hardly keep alive in that dread winter.

The second winter was called the Winter of the Sword: those who were left alive amongst men robbed and slew for what was left to feed on; brother fell on brother and slew him, and over all the world there were mighty battles.

And the third winter was called the Winter of the Wolf. Then the ancient witch who lived in Jarnvid, the Iron Wood, fed the Wolf Managarm on unburied men and on the corpses of those who fell in battle. Mightily grew and flourished the Wolf that was to be the devourer of Mani, the Moon. The Champions in Valhalla would find their seats splashed with the blood that Managarm dashed from his jaws; this was a sign to the Gods that the time of the last battle was approaching.

A COCK crew; far down in the bowels of the earth he was and beside Hela's habitation: the rust-red cock of Hel crew, and his crowing made a stir in the lower worlds In Jötunheim a cock crew, Fialar, the crimson cock, and at his crowing the Giants aroused themselves. High up in Asgard a cock crew, the golden cock Gullinkambir, and at his crowing the Champions in Valhalla bestirred themselves.

A dog barked; deep down in the earth a dog barked; it was Garm, the hound with bloody mouth, barking in Gnipa's Cave. The Dwarfs who heard groaned before their doors of stone. The tree Ygdrassil moaned in all its branches. There was a rending noise as the Giants moved their ship; there was a trampling sound as the hosts of Muspelheim gathered their horses.

But Jötunheim and Muspelheim and Hel waited tremblingly; it might be that Fenrir the Wolf might not burst the bonds where-with the Gods had bound him. Without his being loosed the Gods might not be destroyed. And then was heard the rending of the rock as Fenrir broke loose. For the second time the Hound Garm barked in Gnipa's Cave.

Then was heard the galloping of the horses of the riders of Muspelheim; then was heard the laughter of Loki; then was heard the blowing of Heimdall's horn; then was heard the opening of Valhall's five hundred and forty doors, as eight hundred Champions made ready to pass through each door.

Odin took council with Mimir's head. Up From the waters of the Well of Wisdom he drew it, and by the power of the runes he knew he made the head speak to him Where best might the Aesir and the Vanir and the Einherjar, who were the Champions of Midgard, meet, and how best might they strive with the forces of Muspelheim and Jötunheim and Hel? The head of Mimir counseled Odin to meet them on Vigard Plain to wage there such ware that the powers of evil would be destroyed for ever, even though his own world should be destroyed with them.

The riders of Muspelheim reached Bifröst, the Rainbow Bridge. Now would they storm the City of the Gods and fill it with flame. But Bifröst broke under the weight of the riders of Muspelheim, and they came not to the City of the Gods.

Jörmungand, the serpent that encircles the world, reared itself up from the sea. The waters flooded the lands, and the remnant [279] of the world's inhabitants was swept away. That mighty flood floated Naglfar, the Ship of Nails that the Giants were so long building, and floated the ship of Hel also. With Hrymer the Giant steering it, Naglfar sailed against the Gods, with all the powers of Jötunheim aboard. And Loki steered the ship of Hel with the Wolf Fenrir upon it for the place of the last battle.

Since Bifröst was broken, the Aesir and the Vanir, the Asyniur and the Vana, the Einherjar and the Valkyries rode downward to Vigard through the waters of Thund. Odin rode at the head of his Champions. His helmet was of gold and in his hand was his spear Gunfnir. Thor and Tyr were in his company.

In Mirkvid, the Dark Forest, the Vanir stood against the host of Muspelheim. From the broken end of the Rainbow Bridge the riders came, all flashing and flaming, with fire before them and after them. Niord was there with Skadi, his Giant wife, fierce in her war-dress; Freya was there also, and Frey had Gerda beside him as a battle-maiden. Terribly bright flashed Surtur's sword. No sword ever owned was as bright as his except the sword that Frey had given to Skirnir. Frey and Surtur fought; he perished, Frey perished in that battle, but he would not have perished if he had had in his hand his own magic sword.

And now, for the third time, Garm, the hound with blood upon his jaws, barked. He had broken loose on the world, and with fierce bounds he rushed towards Vigard Plain, where the Gods had assembled their powers. Loud barked Garm. The Eagle [280] Hræsvelgur screamed on the edge of heaven. Then the skies were cloven, and the tree Ygdrassil was shaken in all its roots.

To the place where the Gods had drawn up their ranks came the ship of Jötunheim and the ship of Hel, came the riders of Muspelheim, and Garm, the hound with blood upon his jaws. And out of the sea that now surrounded the plain of Vigard the serpent Jörmungand came.

What said Odin to the Gods and to the Champions who surround him? “We will give our lives and let our world be destroyed, but we will battle so that these evil powers will not live after us.” Out of Hel's ship sprang Fenrir the Wolf. His mouth gaped; his lower jaw hung against the earth, and his upper jaw scraped the sky. Against the Wolf Odin All-Father fought. Thor might not aid him, for Thor had now to encounter Jörmungand, the monstrous serpent.

By Fenrir the Wolf Odin was slain. But the younger Gods were now advancing to the battle; and Vidar, the Silent God, came face to face with Fenrir. He laid his foot on the Wolf's lower jaw, that foot that had on the sandal made of all the scraps of leather that shoemakers had laid by for him, and with his hands he seized the upper jaw and tore his gullet. Thus died Fenfir, the fiercest of all the enemies of the Gods.

Jörmungand, the monstrous serpent, would have overwhelmed all with the venom he was ready to pour forth. But Thor sprang forward and crushed him with a stroke of his hammer Hiolnir. Then Thor stepped back nine paces. But the serpent blew his [281] venom over him, and blinded and choked and burnt, Thor, the World's Defender, perished

Loki sprang from his ship and strove with Heimdall, the Warder of the Rainbow Bridge and the Watcher for the Gods. Loki slew Heimdall and was slain by him.

Bravely fought Tyr, the God who had sacrificed his sword hand for the binding of the Wolf Bravely he fought, and many of the powers of evil perished by his strong left hand. But Garm, the hound with bloody jaws, slew Tyr.

And now the riders of Muspelheim came down on the field. Bright and gleaming were all their weapons. Before them and behind them went wasting forest. Surtur cast fire upon the earth; the tree Ygdrassil took fire and burned in all its great branches; the World Tree was wasted in the blaze. But the fearful fire that Surtur brought on the earth destroyed him and all his host.

The Wolf Hati caught up on Sol, the Sun; the Wolf Managarm seized on Mani, the Moon; they devoured them; stars fell, and darkness came down on the world.

THE seas flowed over the burnt and wasted earth and the skies were dark above the sea, for Sol and Mani were no more. But at last the seas drew back and earth appeared again, green and beautiful. A new Sun and a new Moon appeared in the heaves, one a daughter of Sol and the other a daughter of Mani. No grim wolves kept them in pursuit

Four of the younger Gods stood on the highest of the world's [282] peaks; they were Vidar and Vali, the sons of Odin, and Modi and Magni, the sons of Thor. Modi and Magni found Miolnir, Thor's hammer, and with it they slew the monsters that still raged through the world, the Hound Garm and the Wolf Managarm.

Vidar and Vali found in the grass the golden tablets on which were inscribed the runes of wisdom of the elder Gods. The runes told them of a heave that was above Asgard, of Gimli, that was untouched by Surtur's fire. Vili and Ve, Will and Holiness, ruled in it. Baldur and Hodur came from Hela's habitation, and the Gods sat on the peak together held speech with each other, calling to mind the secrets and the happenings they had known before Tagnarok, the Twilight of the Gods.

Deep in a wood two of human kind were left; the fire of Surtur did not touch them; they slept, and when they wakened the world was green and beautiful again. These two fed on the dews of the morning; a woman and a man they were, Lif and Lifthrasir They walked abroad in the world, and from them and from their children came the men and women who spread themselves over the earth.
 

WildFire2000

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This thread is great! While it is slightly off topic, it is extremely enlightening. I love it, it sounds like we're getting somewhere with things and narrowing down exactly when(-ish) things happened. Well, some things anyway. It somewhat fits within the framework we've already discussed around here, and as I mentioned before about the WildHeritic map/cataclysm discussion.

Now, the whole 'Jove threw a lightning bolt' to stop the destruction, and the other thread about the structure in the Sahara .. The craters and the possible location of Atlantis? If, again, I know it calls some people's view of the world itself into question or whatever, but if the Earth is surrounded by the Aether as proposed by Tesla, and something caused a traumatic, extreme change in the Earth's magnetic field that allowed a .. Okay, how does this sound.

Every object we're told about in our heavens are most likely electrically charged bodies due to their interaction with the plasma of space and the currents of the galaxy. Approximately 500-600 years ago a very large spacial body of some sort almost collided with Earth, discharging massive electrical currents into the crust. The Electric Universe model of the universe states that most, if not all, of the craters we find are from plasma discharges between objects, therefore, if we plot .. bear with me here, I had to use a gif since Google Earth won't load for me ... If you look at where we're told the Yucatan Peninsula crater/impact occurred, and follow it east, it lines up with the Sahara desert and with the Sudan, mostly, maybe not perfectly, but someone else that Google Earth works for can check.

So, something flew past Earth, or the moon got too close due to something, and there was an extreme amount of plasma energy pouring into the Earth itself. Yucatan, Greenland, the major craters in the Sahara... all from cosmic lightning. The magnetic gravitation ( I don't personally believe in 'gravity' in the same sense it's traditionally taught, as it is considered the weakest atomic force and physicists don't understand how it affects things the way it does, they just accept it because SOMETHING makes it work, but I digress ) threw the Earth off of it's previous balance. The discharge realigned the poles, caused many areas of the Earth to liquefy, sinking cities and causing other weird geological anomalies, possibly even petrifying all sorts of objects and maybe cities too. Of course, climate change followed. We have weird 'no one painted landscapes' before the 1650's and then suddenly SNOW and winter landscapes were painted and preserved. The world had to rebuild and the after affects did something else to our atmospheric electricity as humanity knew it. The time pre-cataclysm was far more 'magical', with all kinds of craziness with the stories that survived and the maps and the fantastic creatures.

If you watch any of the vids posted by The Thunderbolts project on Youtube, they have a series based on the 'Alien Sky' that combines the world-wide collection of sky descriptions and such that they assert point to a far more energetic and vivid 'solar system' than we have today, which would be a precursor to this event. In another thread we were discussing the combination of the ancient cultures and their extreme overlap in many, many ways. Several of the 'ancient' cultures, Roman, Greek, Egyptian, Hebrew, ect, share these similarities. Ever culture has a tale of flooding and cataclysm. Our Church aligned history as being presented by Silvanus777 and Dreamtime took these events and shoved them backwards, creating a history for themselves that validated their right to rule over what they could grab up, post destruction. Since they fabricated the timeline, they had to eliminate as many forms of the old culture as possible, culture and tech. If the things humanity could do was more inline with mastery over magnetism, electrical current, crystals, and frequency/vibration, and it wasn't based on the same tools and industrial models we have today, then we're NEVER going to find the tools they used, because they would be far closer to natural objects than we use now.

Anyway, this is far larger than I meant to write tonight, but my brain needed to get this out. this is a great thread.
 

Silvanus777

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Awesome! I love how explosive (in a productive sense) this discussions can go here with you guys. Our combined, unbridled and creative thinking power is a force to be reckoned with it seems! :) Already love being part of this community.

I am thoroughly convinced that much of our true history and the parts of the answers we are looking for here are encrypted in mythology.
Hence, I am also of the opinion that the Norse-Germanic Ragnarök/Götterdämmerung Myth talks about true, cataclysmic events of the past. So thanks to Absyllyon for bringing it up.

And didn't it come true after all?? Ragnarök I mean. Whether you see it in a literal or metaphorical sense is secondary, but the "old world" did die, and the "old gods" were killed - when the old European pagan world was "christianized", when the old Germanic and Norse Gods disgraced and thrown out and a completely new order of society, law & faith was established, courtesy of the RCC I might add. That being said, I don't believe it is purely an allegorical tale about the pagan world being replaced by the "christian" paradigm. So yes, the questions posed by Absyllyon are crucial, and I do think that Ragnarök represents most likely a 14th/15th century catacylsm. The mythological images, characters and figures I think are indeed symbols and metaphors for cosmological phenomena, physical forces etc., but the thing is: How to decode that properly? I think the ancients had profound knowledge about the cosmos and its workings, but we today just lack the language, even the way of thinking and mindset they had, so it becomes hard and to a degree guesswork it seems to me to properly convert the symbolry and images of ancient myths like Ragnarök to our modern understanding.

Anyways, even the first paragraph on Wikipedia regarding Ragnarök tells us a ton:
In Norse mythology, Ragnarök is a series of future events, including a great battle, foretold to ultimately result in the death of a number of major figures (including the Gods Odin, Thor, Týr, Freyr, Heimdallr, and Loki), the occurrence of various natural disasters, and the subsequent submersion of the world in water. Afterward, the world will resurface anew and fertile, the surviving and returning gods will meet, and the world will be repopulated by two human survivors.
Fits our 14th/15th century global catastrophy theory pretty well, doesn't it? As for all this being "a series of future, events": Future events, certainly. But from whose perspective? Snorri in the 13th century (if one were to trust orthodox chronology just for the sake of the argument here!), and the other 13th century authors of the "Poetic Edda"?

But here's fascinating thought upon reading the above Wiki paragraph: So... After a global flood, the world was re-populated by two human survivors!? Ring a bell, anyone??

Let me quote the King James Bible, 1611:
Genesis 1:
"1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."
So in the beginning, the earth was in a chaotic, devastated state, covered in water and enshrouded in darkness. And the "elohim" (plural) then go on to create a man and a woman, telling them:
"28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
The command to "replenish" is the crucial bit here. Words have meaning. The two humans were instructed to re-populate a world destroyed by a cataclysm, which, at least in my humble opinion, could very well be reflected in the conclusion of the Ragnarök narration.

Long story short: It looks to me as if biblical Genesis picks up where Norse myth concludes with Ragnarök! The possibility blows my mind.

Disclaimer: While I wrote the above in an assertive tone, please do not misunderstand - all of this is mere speculation. However, constantly adding qualifiers and justifications hamper my free-flowing thought process. When it bubbles up, I have to let it out. Please have understanding. It's all brainstorming at this point, after all! :D
 

freezetime26

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- 1950 - 2050 and beyond: With most of the true history succesfully erased, the effort is being made to re-establish a global civilization with most people living in crowded cities, but this time under full control of those behind the Church and secret socities. The idea is to change humans into asexual slaves, suppressing or even erasing the godly spark on the genetic level.
I think we arrived at the same conclusion! , we are truly living in the end of times.
 

Searching

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Awesome! I love how explosive (in a productive sense) this discussions can go here with you guys. Our combined, unbridled and creative thinking power is a force to be reckoned with it seems! :) Already love being part of this community.

I am thoroughly convinced that much of our true history and the parts of the answers we are looking for here are encrypted in mythology.
Hence, I am also of the opinion that the Norse-Germanic Ragnarök/Götterdämmerung Myth talks about true, cataclysmic events of the past. So thanks to Absyllyon for bringing it up.

And didn't it come true after all?? Ragnarök I mean. Whether you see it in a literal or metaphorical sense is secondary, but the "old world" did die, and the "old gods" were killed - when the old European pagan world was "christianized", when the old Germanic and Norse Gods disgraced and thrown out and a completely new order of society, law & faith was established, courtesy of the RCC I might add. That being said, I don't believe it is purely an allegorical tale about the pagan world being replaced by the "christian" paradigm. So yes, the questions posed by Absyllyon are crucial, and I do think that Ragnarök represents most likely a 14th/15th century catacylsm. The mythological images, characters and figures I think are indeed symbols and metaphors for cosmological phenomena, physical forces etc., but the thing is: How to decode that properly? I think the ancients had profound knowledge about the cosmos and its workings, but we today just lack the language, even the way of thinking and mindset they had, so it becomes hard and to a degree guesswork it seems to me to properly convert the symbolry and images of ancient myths like Ragnarök to our modern understanding.

Anyways, even the first paragraph on Wikipedia regarding Ragnarök tells us a ton:

Fits our 14th/15th century global catastrophy theory pretty well, doesn't it? As for all this being "a series of future, events": Future events, certainly. But from whose perspective? Snorri in the 13th century (if one were to trust orthodox chronology just for the sake of the argument here!), and the other 13th century authors of the "Poetic Edda"?

But here's fascinating thought upon reading the above Wiki paragraph: So... After a global flood, the world was re-populated by two human survivors!? Ring a bell, anyone??

Let me quote the King James Bible, 1611:

So in the beginning, the earth was in a chaotic, devastated state, covered in water and enshrouded in darkness. And the "elohim" (plural) then go on to create a man and a woman, telling them:

The command to "replenish" is the crucial bit here. Words have meaning. The two humans were instructed to re-populate a world destroyed by a cataclysm, which, at least in my humble opinion, could very well be reflected in the conclusion of the Ragnarök narration.

Long story short: It looks to me as if biblical Genesis picks up where Norse myth concludes with Ragnarök! The possibility blows my mind.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Disclaimer: While I wrote the above in an assertive tone, please do not misunderstand - all of this is mere speculation. However, constantly adding qualifiers and justifications hamper my free-flowing thought process. When it bubbles up, I have to let it out. Please have understanding. It's all brainstorming at this point, after all! :D
There are 2 very different creation stories in the first couple of pages of the KJV:

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
God created man and woman together at the same time. Notice, God is called God.

But then, all of a sudden, there weren't any people:
Genesis 2:5 ...and there was not a man to till the ground. 7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Genesis 2:21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
22 And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

God is now called Lord God, like he's a different god now, and we have the story everyone knows of the rib taken from Adam to make Eve.

I've heard the apologetics of, "It's the same story but from a different point of view". Don't buy it.
Something happened between Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.
 

Silvanus777

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I think we arrived at the same conclusion! , we are truly living in the end of times.
"For nothing is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be known and come abroad."​
- Luke 8:17

Friends, welcome to the party! This is the Apocalypse - in a very literal sense:

Apocalypsis = unveiling, uncovering, as in lifting a veil from something formerly concealed.

What so many people - and we here are a small part of that - are experiencing in recent years in terms of discovering previously hidden things, truths, meanings, this "shift in consciousness" for lack of a better term, is either the biggest friggin' psyop enabled by the ubiquitousness of the world wide web, powered by supreme mass mind control methods, OR the fulfillment of prophecy. Whether the literalist Christian thing, or maybe something on an individual consciousness/mind level is a question of personal belief or faith. What is happening on a forum like this, and individually in each participant's mind and life, is a small scale "Apocalypsis". We are lifting veils, little by little - or veils are being lifted for us, however you wanna look at it. It's not that any of our ramblings here will change the world in a bang, or at all, but the we ourselves are changing in the process, on a personal, a mind and consciousness level. Yes, it's the end of the old world and a new beginning. Within.

Sorry, I can't resist (maybe) feeble attempts at philosophic thoughts when the "end times" topic comes up! :D;)

(No Gnostic tho... ;) )

@Searching , thanks for bringing this issue up. I am very much aware of what appears to be two seperate creation accounts here, and agree that the two perspectives explanation is highly unsatisfactory. Redundancy like this makes little sense. Even by the God's own standards, as expressed by Paul I believe, this makes no sense:

"For God is not the author of confusion,..." - 1 Cor. 14:33

Certainly what you brought up is worthy of consideration. I mean, what two creations could mean when trying to reconstruct mankind's true history? In general I am not so sure anymore about the true nature of the Old Testament testament events, and suspecting the original storyline to be mixed up in a certain way. At this point, I can't really make sense of that in particular, but I got this thread diverted good enough, so I won't go into it now... ;-) :p
 
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CreoleRoyale

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I personally struggle to understand what finances the US Government was operating on between 1770s and 1860s. In other words, where did the money come from?

If one considers what was achieved before the spike in the above chart, the mystery would just deepen.

I think understanding this could contribute to our understanding of quite a few different things to include the time line.
I think from the natural resources as well as Gold and SILVER was big for awhile
 

Ice Nine

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While I am completely on the same page with radically shorter timeline, quite recent cataclysms withing the last 1000 or so years and the other theses as laid out by dreamtime here, I am struggling to reconcile all this with the local birth/baptismal, death and marriage records I have recently started to research as part of drawing up my personal family tree.

See sample clipping from 1721 baptismal record attached!

As it turned out, all original, hand-written community records for my area are readily available on the internet, and I was able to reconstruct my family line back to the first half of the 17th century. For some towns here the record-keeping starts around the year 1530 even. Whilst researching that I got the impression that everything went down more or less smoothly and according to what one might expect from an orthodox history standpoint, meaning I did not see many unusual deaths, population replacements or other data/occurrences in these records that would indicate major disturbances in the normal flow of births, marriages and deaths. In all actuality, everything seems a bit too peaceful as compared with the written history of my area. Besides tremendous infant mortality (nothing out of the ordinary) and some years in the 1500s with more deaths than usual due to outbreaks of the black plague (cause of death being frequently noted), I do not see any sort of civilian war casulties for instance or anything else one would expect in turbulent times of upheaval and war, while our local history paints a dreadful picture of the countryside being constantly ravaged by marauders, villages pillaged and burnt down left and right throughout the 17th/18th/19th centuries...

Question: Has anyone of you tried to look through local records like that to compare these with official history narratives as well as alternative interpretation?

I think something like this would be a worthwile venture, as I really doubt local records written by town priests and clerks and kept in the local church could have been comprehensively replaced by forgeries. I'm planning to go deeper into this, as I only have touched the surface when researching my family history!

Addendum: Of course community records from some backwards Austrian towns and hamlets is not representative of anything regarding the bigger picture. I just wanted to report this preliminary finding I made in my recent genealogical exploits. Might prove useful or provide further clues in the future! ;-)

Exact same scenario with me and my family. I can go back to early 1500's and have even read the 1585 account of my 14th great grandfather's death in Cartagena, Bolivia at the hands of Spaniards, whose ship he had just boarded, uninvited, he sailed with Francis Drake and captained two of his ships on different voyages.
And another line of our family back to 1635 and there are a lot of records of him and his family, right directly up to now, We know alot about our family, a relative wrote a book in 1891. And I have done a ton of research too.
I've seen pictures of graves of ancestors going back to the 1700.

So anyway, I haven't seen anything of particular interest in any records I have seen. We had some orphans in the family, but we know who their parents were.

And yet I think something is wrong with history but things could have been going on in the world and the general populace was oblivious to the big picture, whatever was happening. And after a generation, nobody remembered anomalies, as somebody pointed out, any major event such as JFK or 911 , whoever controls the narrative will have it written that whatever it is, is so, a true fact, and that will be that, in 100 years, there won't be anything to question. Life goes on.
 

Lurck

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I personally struggle to understand what finances the US Government was operating on between 1770s and 1860s. In other words, where did the money come from?

If one considers what was achieved before the spike in the above chart, the mystery would just deepen.

I think understanding this could contribute to our understanding of quite a few different things to include the time line.
I don't know if the government tried to run on the gold/silver standard at that time, but the U.S. has apparently always had monetary sovereignty, which means it can create its own money supply at any time, either with coins or tokens or bills. What helped me understand this best were these two websites: The truth about money and #Monetary Sovereignty - Mitchell . They explain that this is why the U.S. can spend trillions of dollars on the "defense industry" without going broke. The national debt is a misnomer, since we aren't indebted to anyone. The "debt" is really our money supply. If we didn't have this "debt" we wouldn't have money. Then we'd be broke. The government and the ruling class have been deceiving us on this for a long time.
 

Lurck

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I read that a fake federal government was set up in 1871, which is the one we think is the real government. Then in 1971 or so Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard, which actually made things better, because gold could be hoarded and was of limited supply, so a few people could take away all the money, or at least foreign governments could do that since FDR had changed the money setup in the 1930s. But I'm 90 some % sure that the U.S. has always had monetary sovereignty, and thus not dependent on any central banks or foreign government for its money supply.
 

KorbenDallas

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1871 is a significant year including what you said, and a bunch of other things like the Peshtigo Fire, etc. We are yet to decipher the true meaning of 1871.

Where the money (plus for all of them ironclads, cannons, food, other stuff etc) was coming from between 1861 and 1865 would also be nice to find out.

After 1913 this issue is not that important at the moment, with reference to the issue at hand.
 

Jef Demolder

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Some remarks continuing this very interesting thread.
  • Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. In my opinion Genesis 1 is about the Transcendent giving existence to everything, including humans. And Genesis 2 is about the gods (elohim as a plural form) manufacturing humans by bio-engineering, starting with the prototypes.
  • Ovid's Phaeton story, indeed, an important version of the last global catastrophe, touching the desert line from Ngobi desert to Sahara. I restarted reading Ovid in a new Dutch translation, and consider the Metamorphoses as a kind of mythological Old Testament, starting with the creation of the world, and ending in the days of the emperor Augustus (in the New Testament the time of the Birth of Christ). Ovid has the Flood and Phaeton's Fire, the Bible has the Flood and the Sodom-and-Gomorrha Fire. So two global catastrophes?
  • Where does the money come from? As most humans think that life is material, they are not aware of the myths and idols that are enslaving them. Money is the most powerful myth of the moment, and has been developed in the 19th century. A myth is a very efficient story, and so is money. It is a belief system created from nothing (even gold has no intrinsic value). By the monetizing of existence, access to ressources depends on money, and so people are being enslaved. On money I learned most, and with the help of Google translate, from Dmitri Mylnikov who has a livejournal blog in Russian (and a series on money and power systems) and Brusek Kodluch, who has a blog in Polish on Syria, with off topic articles in the field of history criticism, and among them articles on the birth of the money system in the 19th century (interesting, but very long and difficult articles).
  • Dreamtime on 1950-2050 and beyond, "the effort is being made to re-establish a global civilization with most people living in crowded cities". "The idea is to change humans into asexual slaves, suppressing or even erasing the godly spark on the genetic level.". Living in crowded cities means, not having access to food production, so depending on money for access to food. I also see the effort done by the powers to kill the transcendental orientation of humans (by limiting their horizon & perspective), but I am still questioning the nature of this powers.
 

Lurck

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… I think the reason this whole world does not remember why the houses are buried, or why the continents changed is in a simple answer - there was nobody left to remember.
_I just joined this site after finding the thread about the Phoenicians, who were also being discussed at Cutting Through the Fog , which has forums to discuss mainly papers at Updates (and I see just now that there's another new paper there on the Phoenicians, which I'll have to check out before long).
_I had read about Fomenko over 13 years ago and read some discussions which seemed to conclude that his ideas about shortening history by over a thousand years were wrong. So now I'll have to see what the mudflood idea and shortened history that you folks are discussing is about and whether I'll need to revisit Fomenko. I happened across one or more videos a week or two ago about mudflood, so it's interesting that you all discuss that here, and hopefully I'll soon find out what the theory is exactly and what it's based on.
_If you look through the Mathis site above you'll see a lot of papers posted over the last several years dealing with fake events in history (fake wars & revolutions, fake assassinations, fake mass shootings, fake serial killers, faked deaths). Their theory lately is that the Phoenicians became a global power that secretly gained and maintained control of all governments, that they were Semitic and at least in more recent times they exert their influence largely through self-proclaimed Jews.
_So you all here are covering similar topics. You all so far don't seem to be as paranoid as the people at CutFog. I'm a member there too, but some of the others suspect that anyone might be an agent of the "governors" (what they often call the ruling class). I'm not worried like that myself, because everyone is capable of promoting false and true info, whether it's intentional or out of naivete'.

Clue #2 - compare the technological quality of the 1802 map above where Africa was unexplored, and the last maps of the 18th century when it was still a known, explored and properly mapped continent.
_I checked out the first two maps there so far, but haven't gotten back to that thread yet. I haven't seen enough evidence yet to consider your theory to be likely true, but I'm interested in investigating at least a little. I'll be surprised if the theory seems very plausible, but I'm truly open-minded. The Mathis site has a few papers that call Flat Earth a project of the JTB (that's my term for the ruling class, meaning Jackasses That Be, instead of TPTB or the "powers" that be; I don't like to show them any respect by calling them "powers). I think there may also be a paper or two there that briefly critiques or dismisses Fomenko. I take it that members of this site don't mind if other members disagree with them. Am I right?

Clue #3 - factor in urban fires to kill off the remembering survivors.
_That's new to me too. I think the Chicago fire and the ones in WI and MI the same day were caused by a comet (Biele, I think). If I remember right I was told that one of my ancestors owned a hardware store in St Louis in the 1850s when a fire burned it down, but I don't know how extensive the fire was. I think London Bridge burned down in 1666. I'm interested to see what info you all have on urban fires. A few thousand years ago there's evidence of continent-wide fires at least for North America, likely caused by comets and or meteorites/asteroids.

Clue #4 - consider those photographs of the abandoned cities to be actually the depictions of the abandoned cities ready to be repopulated. Figure out what happened to previous citizens on your own.
_Can you give a link to a thread or something on that? (By the way, I'm very skeptical of theories of ETs, if that's what you're getting at, though ETs are possible.)

Clue #5 - for the US of A. When did the taxes started to get collected? What really financed the Civil War of 1861-1865. All those ironclads, uniforms, weapons, food and all the other logistics?
_The LaRouche organization used to say that Lincoln's protectionist economic policies, such as tariffs, are what provided funds for the North at that time.

Clue #6 - figure out the world significance of the year 1871.
_The comet that likely caused the Chicago fire occurred in October. The federal government that year apparently formed a corporation called the United States, or some name like that, and made that the new fake government. I first heard of that on a site called TeamLaw over 15 years ago and more recently I saw 1 or 2 videos about it. The ReallyGraceful channel may have a video on that. I'm curious what your suspicions are about that year.

Clue #7 - 18th, 19th century language reforms.
_I know Germany reformed their writing in the 1800s, but they were a new country at that time anyway, so I guess that's understandable. What are suspicions about that too?

And yes, eventually children were very much needed.
_A lot of Germans came to the U.S. in the 1800s and had lots of kids at that time up till the 1920s I think. But I don't think there was a worldwide population boom then. Was there?

_I look forward to learning more details of and about evidence for your theory.
 
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whitewave

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Clue #7 - 18th, 19th century language reforms.
_I know Germany reformed their writing in the 1800s, but they were a new country at that time anyway, so I guess that's understandable. What are suspicions about that too?
And yes, eventually children were very much needed.
_A lot of Germans came to the U.S. in the 1800s and had lots of kids at that time up till the 1920s I think. But I don't think there was a worldwide population boom then. Was there?
All of Europe were new countries in the late 17-1800's. Spain was a geographical area defined as "spain" by others not in that geographical area but the indigenous peoples there called themselves "Castillians, Andalusians, Basque", or whatever tribe or principality they were from in that geographical area. Greeks did the same calling themselves "Spartans, Dorics, Hellens" and so on. Although all of the European countries had been around for a long time (supposedly), none of them became nation-states until roughly the same time in the late 17-1800's which is kind of odd.
Catholic Monarchs20 January 1469
De facto23 January 1516
De jure9 June 1715
First constitution19 March 1812
Current democracy29 December 1978
EEC accession[d]1 January 1986
Italians called themselves "Sardinians, Sicilians, Romans", etc. The war of independence (independence from whom?) wasn't won in the first go-round of battles but eventually happened in the 1860's, iirc. Strangely, the Catholics were opposed to a unified Italy and the seat of their power wasn't always in Rome. "The Vatican's history as the seat of the Catholic Church began with the construction of a basilica over St. Peter's grave in Rome in the 4th century A.D. (Sure it was. Rolls eyes.) The area developed into a popular pilgrimage site and commercial district, although it was abandoned following the move of the papal court to France in 1309." link

There were so many Germans in America that it almost became the official language. Odd, then that English would win out. Kind of gives you a hint of who actually won the war of Independence.

I think everyone is familiar with the French revolution and their consequent nationalization at that time. America also became a "united states" during that time and all of Europe following suite with their own nation-state formations. It was really the Congress of Vienna, "a meeting of ambassadors of European states chaired by Austrian statesman Klemens von Metternich, and held in Vienna (Venetians/Phoenicians) from November 1814 to June 1815, though the delegates had arrived and were already negotiating by late September 1814" (wiki) that began dividing up the geographical areas and deciding who gets what.
The Congress of Vienna was a turning point in the move towards globalization. Wars had been fought amongst the various parties from time immemorial so I don't see why Napoleon was such a central figure in the decision to make nation-states of the various fiefdoms. He didn't do anything that any of the rest of them hadn't done throughout their collective histories.

As for population boom-you may want to check out this thread.
 

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