What is Christmas? Jesus Christ, Paganism, Winter Solstice and celebration.


Christmas is an interesting holiday. It is an annual festival, commemorating the birth of Jesus Christ, observed primarily on December 25 as a religious and cultural celebration among billions of people around the world. Yet, instead of Jesus we normally see this guy below.


In the US we call him Santa Claus. Other countries and cultures have their own names for the guy. The rumor says that he is somehow related to Saint Nicholas, who was born (allegedly) in 270 and died in 343 AD. Very little is known about the historical Saint Nicholas. The earliest accounts of his life were written centuries after his death and contain many legendary elaborations. St. Nicholas was born in Patara, Lycia, an area that is part of present-day Turkey.

Saint Nicholas

KD: at some point, he apparently moved to the North Pole and became Santa Claus. How do we know that? Wikipedia told us so. Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, is a legendary figure originating in Western Christian culture who is said to bring gifts to the homes of well-behaved ("good" or "nice") children on Christmas Eve (24 December) and the early morning hours of Christmas Day (25 December).

With exactly zero proof of the Christ having been born on December 25th, we have a few of the other Gods to ask for when they were really born.
  • HORUS An Ethiopian-Sudanese God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 3,000 before Jesus.
  • BUDDHA A Nepal God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 563 before Jesus.
  • KRISHNA An Indian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 900 before Jesus.
  • ZARATHUSTRA An Indian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 1,000 before Jesus.
  • HERCULES A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 800 before Jesus.
  • MITHRAS A Persian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin- 600 before Jesus.
  • DIONYSUS A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 500 before Jesus.
  • THAMUZ A Babylinian God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 400 before Jesus.
  • HERMES A Greek God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 200 before Jesus.
  • ADONIS A Phoenician God, born 25th December, by a Virgin around 200 before Jesus.
Winter Solstice
Not sure, but we could have the three wisemen and the Sun (or Son) God enjoing the Bethlehem Sirius Star.

Winter Solstice - Sun on the Southern Cross.jpg

So, how did people celebrate Christmas prior to the 19th century? What songs did they sing, and what attributes of Christmas did they use? In the US we associate Jingle Bells with Christmas. It was written circa 1857 and was meant for the Thanksgiving.


KD: Jesus was not born in December. There was no Santa Claus prior to the 19th century. Christmas songs appear to be attributed to the 19th century as well. So, what is Christmas and how did our ancestors celebrate Christmas between (for example) 1st and 16th centuries? What are we really celebrating?



New member
The Christmas Pyramid, a precursor to a Christmas Tree, would be interesting to look at.

According to Wikipedia
History of the Christmas pyramid
Christmas pyramids were originally hung from the ceiling of German families' houses. The custom spread across Europe, mainly to Italy and England and was brought to America by German immigrants in the 1700s.
The origins of the Christmas pyramids date back to the Middle Ages. In this period it was traditional in southern and western Europe to bring evergreen branches, for example boxwood, into the home and hang them in order to ward off moroseness in the dark and cold winter months. In northern and eastern Europe traditional candles were used to achieve this goal. The Christmas pyramid would eventually unify these two traditions and become a symbol of Christmas celebrations. The forerunner of the pyramid was a construction known as a Lichtergestelle (literally: light stand) which were very popular in the 18th century. They were constructions made of four poles, decorated with evergreen boughs, tied together at the top and lit with candles. In the large cities, the Christmas tree, now recognizable all over the world, gradually replaced the Lichtergestelle, but in the mountains, the people did not see a simple tree bedecked with lights; rather they were reminded of the capstans, which were commonly used in the mines of the Ore Mountains. To the pyramid shape was added the spinning motion of the capstan and the earliest Christmas pyramids were born.
The name "Christmas pyramid" came about because the Napoleonic Campaign in Egypt at the end of the 18th century brought pictures of the pyramids back to Europe and eventually to the Ore Mountains, where they reminded the people of the mining capstans and also of the Christmas constructions.
An important breakthrough in the popularity of the Christmas pyramid came around 1830 with the discovery of kerosene. Previously, people had used relatively expensive candles or rapeseed oil. As the means to light and spin the pyramids became much cheaper, the tradition spread. Now such pyramids can be found in numerous styles and sizes all over Germany as well as in many parts of the United States.
Napoleon, Pyramids, Christmas nativity scenes- complete with a star or a pinecone at the top.


Well-known member
I was actually wondering when Christmas was actually first celebrated as well and why the character Santa Claus was introduced to us.
Side note: this may be similar to the Olympics. Are these psyops to strengthen the belief in history?

I have read before that Santa is an anagram for Satan and Claus is Lucas which = Lucifer. Not sure if the last part is true. What I find really interesting, though, is that the character of Santa is like programming for Big Brother. He is always watching, knows all about you, and has a list of all the good and bad children. And what is worse is that all these parents are in on this lie that they tell their children. I am nearly 100 percent certain at this point that Santa Claus is not real. Please don't attack me for that. It is just my opinion.

Elf of the shelf is pretty creepy as well and, by the way, I never knew he existed until a couple years ago.
Now, the Bible doesn't say when Christ's birthday is but my philosophy professor in college (which was kind of long ago but not very long ago) said that Jesus was born on September 11th, which I have heard several times since then over the years. It seems dates are very important to them maybe since it relates to time, which is apparently our cage.

Also, can we really be sure that all those gods were born of virgins or were those later additions? The weird thing is after watching Zeitgeist back in the day, I looked up all their claims on Christianity and I noticed that people are confusing Catholic Saturnalia worship and popular culture with the birth of Christ. Like the story of the wise men coming to visit baby Jesus; the Bible never says there are three. Only three gifts between them. But in popular culture there are always three. So the "Three Kings" in the sky didn't fit the narrative when I looked that all up. As well as how all of these gods were apparently born of virgins even though I feel like I would have come across that as I was very into mythology growing up. But I'm not saying one way or the other, I just personally haven't been convinced. I remember looking into the sources and they were all citing one another. Maybe something to think about.

Santa Claus seems to me to be some sort of inversion of Christ; be good and he rewards you with material things. Promotion of mass consumerism and a social experiment in worldwide lying and deception. I never believed in Santa and I would defend my home from any freak that came down my chimney. And don't even get started on Krampus! (actually someone go ahead and talk about Krampus).


Well-known member
There's always the Germanic pagan tradition for that as well. Here we have the Yule goat, and yule is still btw. a name of Christmas in Finnish as well of today, we call it by the name "joulu". Our name for Santa Claus is "joulupukki", which is synonymous with the Yule goat where yule just stands for joulu aka Christmas and the goat is bock in Swedish and pukki in Finnish combined to become Joulupukki from the original yule goat.

"... While a popular theory is that the celebration of the goat is connected to worship of the Norse god Thor, who rode the sky in a chariot drawn by two goats, Tanngrisnir and Tanngnjóstr, it goes back to common Indo-European beliefs..." <- Now does that sound familiar.

The tradition they apparently call in Sweden julebukking is similar to us with the name "Nuuttipukki" and the day we credit for that is in St. Knut's day. It's a dying tradition and I have not come across it at least since my childhood when I first was told about it and possibly experienced it in the 80's as a kid, tough to recall. This is very much tied to the Christmas celebration here.

On Jesus there's actually a lot of information on him being actually born in September with using deductions from the information in the bible, you can google and find a lot of information on that.

There is the possible celebration built around Saturnalia and that eventually became washed away and cleansed up for the public with new religion. I actually have liked the idea of Saturnalia and to me it shows good taste on the level of modern esoteric knowledge as well, that in the darkest time of the year you can enjoy festivities and go on a free ride until the light brings victory over the darkness again and the day starts to become longer and you clean your act as well symbolically in honor of that.


[add] Just a wild flow of the mind: If this modernization of Christmas was an agenda popping up in the 19th century, it could be in line with the model for a new society and the change of history as well. From this Christmas we could make some sort of deductions that it could've come from Germanic origins and that would line up with the possible Getae, Goths etc. Just like Marxism etc. This line of thought just keeps coming back and back to me in all forms. [/add]
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Jef Demolder

Active member
In my country, Belgium, and in the Netherlands, Saint Nicholas (Sinterklaas in Dutch) is bringing presents to good children on the 6th of December. I have never understood how Saint Nicholas got transformed in Santa Claus ("Klaus" being a German derivative of "Nicholas") and connected to Christmas and December 25th. But I think this is a very important subject, as Saint Nicholas clearly belongs to the Ancient World. Also in the Eastern Orthodox Churches he is an important saint, and Nicholas is a Greek name. I wonder which more ancient god is behind Saint Nicholas. On the other hand, in known (standard) history, taking in account the change from the Julian to the Gregorian calendar, winter solstice has never been on December 25th, so one riddle more for me is why Christmas has been placed on December 25th.


Well-known member
There is the possible celebration built around Saturnalia and that eventually became washed away and cleansed up for the public with new religion. I actually have liked the idea of Saturnalia and to me it shows good taste on the level of modern esoteric knowledge as well, that in the darkest time of the year you can enjoy festivities and go on a free ride until the light brings victory over the darkness again and the day starts to become longer and you clean your act as well symbolically in honor of that.
Yes, Santa is Saturnus - father time - Jupiter.

Saturnalia was an ancient Roman festival in honour of the god Saturn, held on 17 December of the Julian calendar and later expanded with festivities through to 23 December. The holiday was celebrated with a sacrifice at the Temple of Saturn, in the Roman Forum, and a public banquet, followed by private gift-giving, continual partying, and a carnival atmosphere that overturned Roman social norms: gambling was permitted, and masters provided table service for their slaves.[1] A common custom was the election of a "King of the Saturnalia", who would give orders to people and preside over the merrymaking.

It held theological importance for some Romans, who saw it as a restoration of the ancient Golden Age, when the world was ruled by Saturn. The Neoplatonist philosopher Porphyry interpreted the freedom associated with Saturnalia as symbolizing the "freeing of souls into immortality". Saturnalia may have influenced some of the customs associated with later celebrations in western Europe occurring in midwinter, particularly traditions associated with Christmas,

Washington as Jupiter.
apotheosis_center.jpg wp-image-552118998.jpg
I hope Saturnus Washington and Zwarte Piet were kind to you this year.

1200px-George_Washington_MET_DT2823.jpg 041415_Cropped-Washington_Le Mire after la Paon.jpg


Well-known member
Christmas practices (tree, etc.) were practiced long before the birth of Christ (which was not December 25th). See Jeremiah chapter 10:1-5 (NIV)

Hear what the Lord says to you, people of Israel. 2 This is what the Lord says:

“Do not learn the ways of the nations
or be terrified by signs in the heavens,
though the nations are terrified by them.
3 For the practices of the peoples are worthless;
they cut a tree out of the forest,
and a craftsman shapes it with his chisel.
4 They adorn it with silver and gold;
they fasten it with hammer and nails
so it will not totter.
5 Like a scarecrow in a cucumber field,
their idols cannot speak;
they must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not fear them;
they can do no harm
nor can they do any good.”

As far as Christmas not being celebrated before the 19th century: medieval christmas, tudor christmas,

10th century. The Protest-ants protested Christ Mass as a Catholic amalgamation of several pagan winter celebrations.

There's also a lot of propaganda about Jesus being an amalgamation of several different ancient pagan religions but they're just that-propaganda. I'll have to hunt through my files to find the scholarly work showing that those so-called messianic religions of old resembled even each other much less the life of Christ.

History of Christmas.
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