US National Archives: World War 2

Searching

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First, let me preface by saying I know this is the most volatile topic ever, and I contemplated not presenting this as I have seen threads that deal with the Holocaust go south very quickly.

Hopefully, we can all be courteous and polite. After all, we are here to learn.

I grew up believing that propaganda were the lies other countries taught their citizens. It didn't occur to me that every country does that, and mine is no exception.

The following video (and many like them) were propaganda pieces for the U.S. government. Warning: The footage toward the beginning of this video is extremely disturbing. I think that is why so many people accepted all of it as truth; they were emotionally traumatized and too horrified to think. And really, at the time before the internet and social media, they had no reason to question their government. Also, they did not have rewind and pause features that we do today.

I would like to draw your attention to just 8 seconds of this film, 5:45 - 5:53.
It begins with ominous music and a pile of bones. The narrator then states, "This is a scientifically designed gas chamber."
Cut to a soldier looking through a peephole of a door.
And then, we are shown the "scientifically-designed gas chamber". It has great big windows and bathtubs.


 

esgee1

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propaganda ≠ lies

Propaganda is presenting facts selectively (missing context) to influence others to perceive and react (emotionally) in a desired way.

The video above has a lot truths and facts in it. But there's a lot of context that's missing and the info is being presented from one-side (biased/opinionated view) only: The 1945 United States Department of Defense and Army (who produced the film). So it has to be viewed from that context/perspective.

Like you said:
To Americans, Hitler was evil. To Germans, he was their last hope.
The German side/perspective is missing in the video. To gain a better understanding of WWII you need to understand all sides and aspects that led to war.

The United States certainly had a need to push people into feeling patriotic and disgusted with the "German Aggression" in Europe. The US Government needed people to feel like they had a stake in what had happened in Europe during WWII and to support the sacrifice their soldiers made having gone over fighting and dying.

The above film was made in the months after WWII ended. The film felt like it was created to explain and justify to the public back then why the United States went to war against Germany. It's interesting to think that these types of films and news reels would show before movies back in theaters in the 1940s. These were the only moving images people had of what was going on during the war over on the European continent.

The film's closing words:
We have come to Germany not as liberators, but as conquerors, and this time we shall remain. For 10 years, for 20, and if necessary forever. Karl Schmidt himself (aka the German people) will determine how long. For we shall not leave before Karl Schmidt (aka the German people) has come to realize that he himself is responsible, for not only the past, but the future. We have rid him of Hitler, and the General Staff, and Nazism, and Militarism.

But we have not rid him of Frederick (German Emperor), and Bizmark (German Chancellor), and the Kaiser (German Emperor), of his history and his tradition. That he must do for himself. Until he does he is still a potential enemy of civilization. Only when he does can he take his place in the society of man. Then and then only will the German Farmer, the German Mailman, the German Policeman, be like the folks back home (in the United States of America).

Then and then only can Beautiful Germany, Industrious Germany, Cultured Germany, join the peaceful nations of the world.

As for the "scientifically designed gas chamber" the second shot with the "bath tubs" was probably just a piece of footage from somewhere else. It could be footage from the same locale but a different building. (Today video editing is super easy and accessible to everyone. Back then it was all done by hand with film splicing. They used whatever footage they had on hand to make their point.)

Thanks for the post and video link. It was very interesting!
 
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asatiger1966

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First, let me preface by saying I know this is the most volatile topic ever, and I contemplated not presenting this as I have seen threads that deal with the Holocaust go south very quickly.

Hopefully, we can all be courteous and polite. After all, we are here to learn.

I grew up believing that propaganda were the lies other countries taught their citizens. It didn't occur to me that every country does that, and mine is no exception.

The following video (and many like them) were propaganda pieces for the U.S. government. Warning: The footage toward the beginning of this video is extremely disturbing. I think that is why so many people accepted all of it as truth; they were emotionally traumatized and too horrified to think. And really, at the time before the internet and social media, they had no reason to question their government. Also, they did not have rewind and pause features that we do today.

I would like to draw your attention to just 8 seconds of this film, 5:45 - 5:53.
It begins with ominous music and a pile of bones. The narrator then states, "This is a scientifically designed gas chamber."
Cut to a soldier looking through a peephole of a door.
And then, we are shown the "scientifically-designed gas chamber". It has great big windows and bathtubs.


I grew up in rural Arkansas, in a family that bragged that every male had fought in every war starting with the revolution. Some came back home, some died others stayed in with various military units for 30 years or more.

It was a normal town very close knit , a lot of churches. Football was big, our school won often and had numerous High School All Americans on the team. I player right pulling guard. My friends , as expected went to the area University. I wanted adventure and Uncle Pete supplied the avenue. Pete fought with the 101st Screaming Eagles, he jumped at Normandy and fought across Europe to the Eagles Lair.

The stories and a few pictures from Pete ,Duncan George and half the town, gave me an accurate feel for what really happened. The death camps did not exist according to the american soldiers. What the 101st found was factory camps next to the war production. Also at some of the camps that were bombed were thousands killed from Typhus and other germs, caused by lack of food, medicine, water and clothes.

The prisoners told Pete's unit that the RAF bombed the supply lines about six mounts before the 101st arrived. No one at the time even gave any interest to the small incinerators used to get rid of deceased bodies.

You will notice that the prisoners all looked healthy, well fed, except where the railroads were bombed.

There so many issues with the death stories. The allies never bombed the camps, and the Germans had superior technology.

Korben, left you a picture that will peek your attention.

Jewish children living in a ghetto in Szydlowiec, Poland, December 20, 1940.jpgAllied Bombing of Auschwitz Birkenau.jpgIvan with his sister  he was arrested and thrown into Ravensbrück. Both survived.jpgNewly liberated Jewish survivors of Buchenwald concentration camp are joined by Jewish U.S. Ar...jpg
Camp welcoming the troops of 11th Armored Division of US Third Army, Austria, 6 May 1945.jpg4a0855d5d380bd3db69086e941465f87 Shaven-headed children returned from the Ravensbruck concentr...jpg265758.bin recon mission RAF.jpgOn January 27th, 1945, the Auschwitz concentration camp in Nazi-occupied Poland was liberated ...jpg
tsss5.jpg
 
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Searching

Searching

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The nature of this realm is such that we feel compelled to pick sides. In this physical existence, things either happened or they didn't. I cannot subscribe to such black and white thinking anymore.

What I have noticed on this journey to truth is that as more and more people begin to question an event, the less evidence there is to prove it happened and more evidence to prove it didn't.

Belief (a mass concensus of it) creates an event and keeps it alive. Predictive programming. There are so many newspaper articles since the turn of the 1900's that declare 6 million Jews died. In essence, we created the holocaust. The same with 9/11. The Simpsons and numerous other entertainment (enter - attain mind) venues programmed us into inadvertently creating 9/11.

As more people withdraw their belief (energy) from an event, it can no longer sustain itself. Did the holocaust happen? Did man land on the moon? Yes.

But this realm is changing now, and will evolve into a place in which man did not land on the moon, the holocaust did not happen, and neither did 9/11.
This is what has happened to history. This is why we cannot find the true story in this realm. There is no true story. History is fluid and dictated by belief.

We are at a crossroads of the ages in which the veil is thin for those who want to see through it, and it is those who choose to see through that veil that make it easier for the next person to see. The veil is as many layers thick as there are people in the world. For every one new person who takes off a layer, new momentum for the movement is gained, and we are gaining speed.

This world falls apart more and more every day. As evidenced by the film, the government has no problem showing me emaciated prisoners and piles of bones, so if there is a gas chamber, then take an effin picture of that and show it to me. I can handle it.
 
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codis

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To add some points about WWII and national archives:
German physicists (nuclear physics, to be more precise), were interned in Farm Hall (UK) for several month after the war, and wiretapped 24/7.
Large parts of their conversations are still classified. Makes me wonder ...
 

Oiramij

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I know that it`s not important for anything but check execution at 48:35.
It`s fake as fck. Something like assassination of russian ambassador in Turkey in 2016.
 

Mabzynn

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I grew up in rural Arkansas, in a family that bragged that every male had fought in every war starting with the revolution. Some came back home, some died others stayed in with various military units for 30 years or more.

It was a normal town very close knit , a lot of churches. Football was big, our school won often and had numerous High School All Americans on the team. I player right pulling guard. My friends , as expected went to the area University. I wanted adventure and Uncle Pete supplied the avenue. Pete fought with the 101st Screaming Eagles, he jumped at Normandy and fought across Europe to the Eagles Lair.

The stories and a few pictures from Pete ,Duncan George and half the town, gave me an accurate feel for what really happened. The death camps did not exist according to the american soldiers. What the 101st found was factory camps next to the war production. Also at some of the camps that were bombed were thousands killed from Typhus and other germs, caused by lack of food, medicine, water and clothes.

The prisoners told Pete's unit that the RAF bombed the supply lines about six mounts before the 101st arrived. No one at the time even gave any interest to the small incinerators used to get rid of deceased bodies.

You will notice that the prisoners all looked healthy, well fed, except where the railroads were bombed.

There so many issues with the death stories. The allies never bombed the camps, and the Germans had superior technology.

Korben, left you a picture that will peek your attention.

This matches up with conversations I had with a man that I knew who served with the 454th Bombardment Group from 43' to 45'.

They credit most of the units history with success in the Mediterranean theater in Italy but he was on almost every major bombing campaign from the push to Rome all the way to Northern Germany.

He worked communications on a B-24 and by the end of his life took to drinking heavily from all the guilt.
 

codis

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Other strange things happened towards the end of WWII.
In the end of february, Allan Dulles and SS general Wolf met in Switzerland (where Dulles was OSS director), supposedly to discuss terms of surrender.
At the same time, the Allied armies had almost surrounded Berlin, except for a small patch of two or three dozen miles in the north.
Coincidently, they suddenly relinguished Berlin (leaving it to the Red Army), and moved south, where they sacked the remaining factories and research institutes for war planes and missiles (namely V1 and V2 production sites, and several guides missile projects).
Even down to Prague, where the SS operated a secret weapons research facility in the captured Skoda factories.
Two hundred train wagon loads of German patents were confiscated and shipped to the US.

A German U-boot, supposedly heading for Japan and having several hundred pounds of highly pure uranium hexafluoride and a German expert for infrared igniters on board, surrendered to the US navy (after meticulously avoiding the Brits and Canadians). And suddenly, the Manhattan project had refilled it's almost empty uranium reserves, and found a method to trigger the plutonium bomb.

The Russians went for Berlin + Hitler, and got only a burned corpse of dubious identity.

No wonder why some related archives remain closed, or disappear.
Anyone familiar with the story of Kammler ?
 

Obertryn

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I know that it`s not important for anything but check execution at 48:35.
It`s fake as fck. Something like assassination of russian ambassador in Turkey in 2016.
Watching the guy's body shake from the impact, he appears to have been shot 3 or 4 times. Yet I can only hear 2 shots plus an echo. I also don't see any visible entry holes on his uniform which, with the caliber they appear to be using, would definitely get a few sizeable holes punched in it.
 

cheap

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Thought this article from yesterday was interesting.

"Almost one-third of American adults believe that significantly less that 6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, according to a recent survey conducted ahead of Yom Hashoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day).

The survey, conducted by Schoen Consulting on behalf of The Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, found that 70% of US adults say fewer people seem to care about the Holocaust than they used to. 58% believe something like the Holocaust could happen again.

According to the survey, 11% of all US adults and 22% of millennials haven’t heard of, or are not sure they have heard of the Holocaust.

In addition, 31% of US adults and 41% of millennials believe that 2 million Jews or less were killed during the Holocaust.

45% of adults and 49% of millennials could not name a concentration camp or ghetto. Similarly, 41% of adults did not know what Auschwitz was, while a full 66% of millennials were unable to identify Auschwitz.

On the other hand, the survey pointed to a desire for Holocaust education and improvement in the quality of Holocaust curriculum.

Most US adults, 93%, believe all students should learn about the Holocaust in school, and 80% said it is important to keep teaching about the Holocaust so it doesn’t happen again.

A majority of Americans, 52%, agree that lessons about the Holocaust are mostly historically accurate but could be better, the survey found."

One-third of Americans don't believe 6 million Jews murdered
 

Obertryn

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Thought this article from yesterday was interesting.

"Almost one-third of American adults believe that significantly less that 6 million Jews were murdered in the Holocaust, according to a recent survey conducted ahead of Yom Hashoah (Holocaust Remembrance Day).

The survey, conducted by Schoen Consulting on behalf of The Conference on Jewish Material Claims Against Germany, found that 70% of US adults say fewer people seem to care about the Holocaust than they used to. 58% believe something like the Holocaust could happen again.

According to the survey, 11% of all US adults and 22% of millennials haven’t heard of, or are not sure they have heard of the Holocaust.

In addition, 31% of US adults and 41% of millennials believe that 2 million Jews or less were killed during the Holocaust.

45% of adults and 49% of millennials could not name a concentration camp or ghetto. Similarly, 41% of adults did not know what Auschwitz was, while a full 66% of millennials were unable to identify Auschwitz.

On the other hand, the survey pointed to a desire for Holocaust education and improvement in the quality of Holocaust curriculum.

Most US adults, 93%, believe all students should learn about the Holocaust in school, and 80% said it is important to keep teaching about the Holocaust so it doesn’t happen again.

A majority of Americans, 52%, agree that lessons about the Holocaust are mostly historically accurate but could be better, the survey found."

One-third of Americans don't believe 6 million Jews murdered
6 million, 1.5 million, 20 million, the numbers keep changing all the time. The number of Holocaust survivors certainly puts a question mark over the whole enterprise, although the politically incorrect might be inclined to say that many of those are frauds trying to get rich quick since the Germans are compelled to hand out reparations like candy to every Jew who so much as breathes the word "Auschwitz". At this point, I wager the number is just going to keep dropping. Not necessarily because of rising nationalist sentiments as the media loves screeching but simply because the guilt is wearing off and people are more likely to look into the whole thing in depth. Also, younger generations love to rebel against authority and the Holocaust narrative has embedded itself so firmly as "The Man" that ironically Nazis have become the new hippies.
 

whitewave

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here is a video that shows the perspective from the German side.
it has been censored pretty much every where.

Good lord! 5 hours and 50 minutes! Good video but really long. It's obvious that it's cobbled together from bits of actual war footage and scenes from WWII movies (or re-enactments). Examples: we did not watch a snuff film where German women were hanged in front of our eyes and American soldiers were eaten by sharks while the cameramen miraculously survived bombings, bullets whizzing around their heads, sharks eating everyone else, etc. Kept the camera steady too.

Several things from the video caught my attention.
1) Hitler undoubtedly turned things around for the German people and they prospered (for a while) under his rule.

2) Hitler, in his last will and testament, DID specifically blame the Jews so I'm not sure what all this purported tolerance for other races and religions is based on.

3) If the prisoners were treated so well in Auschwitz, having movies and plays and orchestral musicals, soccer teams, and cantina money for cigarettes, why, when the Allied troops liberated that camp did the prisoners immediately beat to death 40 of the SS? Shouldn't they have been exchanging phone numbers and inviting each other to their kids recitals? In fact, why were kids in the camps at all? If there was so much tolerance and acceptance of all races and religions, why not send the kids to live with relatives or let the state raise them to be good nazis, not knowing their heritage as was done on the orphan trains? Why were there camps at all?

4) Atrocities were committed by all sides. Truly atrocious, heinous acts unimaginable in our pampered lives. I've read about the Japanese war crimes that made me, a seasoned ICU nurse, cringe. War truly is hell. Nobody was guiltless in that war. Not the U.S. or Britain, certainly not Russia, and not Germany either.

5) Croatia and Serbia seemed to be the instigators and primary barbarians in that video even though it's clearly an apologetic propaganda piece.

6) At about the 4:50:00 mark (iirc) the poor enslaved German gulag workers look robust and are wearing nice clean white shirts.

7) The pesticide of choice (worldwide) was DDT, not zyklon b. There were two firms that sold Zyklon B and just one of them was shipping TWO TONS A MONTH to the camps. Since all those people died of "typhus", it clearly wasn't working and they should've stuck with the DDT. And why did none of the SS die of typhus (or douse themselves with Zyklon B) when they were in constant close contact with lice-infested people? Did only the undesirable in Germany have lice? Did ALL of them have lice? Was every louse carrying typhus? The Majdanek gas chamber building has a heating unit outside the chambers which blew hot air into the chamber to activate the poison gas, so a hot shower, before the victims entered the gas chamber, was not really necessary. Zyklon B is just hydrogen cyanide liquid and hydrogen cyanide gas in between grains of diatomaceous earth. Most of the hydrogen cyanide molecules are adsorbed to the surface of the grains. The pressure of the cans holding Zyklon B are under high pressure. Standard room temperature is 77 degrees Farenheit (25ºC). So they just have to open the can to lower the pressure to 1 standard atmosphere, and allow the temperature in the chamber to increase due to body heat.

8) There's more than one vector and type of typhus although all of them (ticks, fleas, lice, chiggers) would all be killed by Zyklon B as would most living things since it's hydrogen cyanide! The type they're talking about being an epidemic during the war is epidemic typhus caused by Rickettsia prowazeki carried by lice. Living in crowded, unhygienic conditions helps to spread the lice infestation that carries the disease whereas living in pleasant, clean, free-to-put-on-plays-and-concerts-with grand-pianos is not usually conducive to the spread of any disease. We all saw the piles of emaciated corpses. I didn't see rashes on any of them. Without treatment, death may occur in 10 to 60 % of patients with epidemic typhus, with patients over 60 having the highest risk of death. That looked to be a lot higher than 10-60% of dead people and most of them were not all that old. Don't seem to be able to upload pics today but just google "typhus rash pics" for an example of what typhus corpses should look like.

9) About the 4:50:00 mark we see pictures of Stalin's gulag where, supposedly, Germans are being forced to work. I seriously doubt Stalin allowed cameramen in his Gulag. Stalin denied even having a son and let him be put to death rather than letting the Germans leverage his son against him. Of course, his son either died by jumping/falling into an electric fence or was shot trying to escape. They can't decide which. The picture of Stalins' dead son doesn't look like he "fell" into the fence. That bloody mess looks like he was tortured and thrown into the barbed wire. If he were shot trying to escape he would have either collapsed onto the fence or fallen back. He's practically sticking out of it with feet extended as if he'd been thrown into the fence. Don't get me wrong, Stalin was a bigger psychopath than Hitler or Mussolini are purported to be. The Allies were wrong to side with Stalin.

10) The "kidnapped" German scientists are entering America smiling, smoking cigarettes, sauntering in. They don't look like they've been abducted. I'm sure they were paid very well. What happened to the ones that went to Russia, I can't say but I don't think they sauntered in smiling and smoking cigarettes. I doubt they were paid. See Operation Paperclip (wiki) and especially check out the accompanying picture of the "kidnapped" scientists.

There are several other things that caught my attention but I'll let these examples suffice for now. It was clearly a propaganda piece cobbled together from old movies, news reels, and who-knows-what-else? I have a grudging respect for Hitler and what he accomplished for the German people in so short a time but he is not to be absolved (in my mind) for the atrocities he committed. Nor is British, U.S., Russian, Croatian, Serbian, French leaderships to be excused for their atrocities in WWII either. I have German ancestry and my maiden name is Eldscheidt (German). I don't necessarily blame the people for what their leaders do. I'm just more resolved to pay attention to what our leaders are doing so that history is not repeated. We're not the hard-working, farm-raised, depression-era people our forefathers were and I doubt that our generation could withstand another world war like the last one.

Thanks for sharing that unique video. It's the most tv I've watched all week. :)
 

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