The Williamson Tunnels, Liverpool, UK.

jd755

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In the lower picture the tunnel roof behind the men is already 'slotted' so made ready for demolition.
In the other one with the demolished brick roof lying on the trackbed, the boards stood up on end are to protect whatever is in the cut. I suspect but don't know signalling wires/rods, (physical linkages not electrical.), that were needed when the upgrading was finished.
The men doing the work are in their own clothes. Their head wear is cap and bowler hat.
The pair of tunnels are 1830's but the work going on demolishing them is 1880's according to the text over the pictures when viewed on twitter.

Downloaded the Kiev ruin picture. Enhanced the contrast and sharpened it in gimp. All I see are 'preservation efforts' of the time as evidenced by the iron tie bars and the arches. Using bricks to build such things as arches they will inevitably end up looking very similar due the the size of the brick. They can only conform to a limited range of 'curve' without being cut.
The book is dated 1890 so the 'ruin' presumably predates the publication date and is interesting to see what appears to be a brick skin over a rubble core of the ruin.

kieff.JPEG
 
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whitewave

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I think we're looking at different parts of the picture. If I knew how to use "paint", I'd circle the part I'm talking about. It's on the side that has the ladder.
 

jd755

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Looks like there's an awful lot of mud (?) or debris in the intact right side tunnel and three ghost images as well. And that left-sided ghost image (closest to the rebuilt tunnel) looks to be wearing a helmet of some sort and a cape while facing a gentlemen that looks to be a 19th century poet or something. Neither look dressed to be working construction. The far right very faint ghost image looks to be holding a rifle.
I cannot see any ghost images in the tunnel the ladder is leaning out of but the other chaps are here.
Fiddled with in gimp to get the best clarity I can.

three.jpg

I see two or three people. Two on the left and one on the right of that box or possibly the bloke on the left just changed position during the exposure. Bloke on the right is small so could be a boy.
 

whitewave

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I cannot see any ghost images in the tunnel the ladder is leaning out of but the other chaps are here.
Fiddled with in gimp to get the best clarity I can.


I see two or three people. Two on the left and one on the right of that box or possibly the bloke on the left just changed position during the exposure. Bloke on the right is small so could be a boy.
Oh well, it's not important. Just thought it might be a trick of the camera or something and was hoping someone familiar with the subtleties of photography might have an explanation.
 

jd755

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Ok, Are these Tartarian Ruins in Kiev legit? I mean I'm pretty sure the ruins were there, but could we corroborate this Tartarian reference?
Well I gave it a go with the name of the author, tartar ruins kiev, kieve 1890 ruins, the french version of the latter, the 'old french' version of the latter in duckduckgo and got lots of pictures of ruins in Kiev but not a one of those particular ruins.
There is a page or two of text, handwritten, in the book but it isn't searchable on bnf.gallica. but going through that old french to find what needs copying into google translate on this little screen is beyond me as the bnf site isn't configured for small screens.
 
OP
Timeshifter

Timeshifter

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I just came across this, even more tunnels on Merseyside said to be 'over 200 years old' how they get that figure is anyones guess. However the tunnels have obviously been repurposed over the years, its the tunnels that are of interest, not the contents as they appear mostly props.

These tunnels are in fact across the River mersey in the Wirral, the while area is full of tunnels it seems!


Media Story

Story
 
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Plissken

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So the guy who built these beautiful underground tunnels lived in a house that looked like this:
Home of builder - Copy.jpg

It's the one with the arch. He did like his arches.
🔸🔸🔸

The official narrative says these were lost but they show up in paintings and photos:
Painting - Copy.jpg
Photo 1880s - Copy.jpg



No one was curious about these until the early 1900s??
lost, not here they are.jpg




And if they are sewers or water storage, why would they need a sign for a business. Not sure of the location but wish I could make out what it the name is.
Sign found in tunnels - Copy.jpg



and what is that device to the right of the sign. It looks like one of these:
elec.JPG


🔸🔸🔸

I wonder what they used these holes for:
hole - Copy.jpg
hole 2.jpg



It is taking them so long to excavate because they are bringing the debris up in 5 gallon buckets but we are to believe they quarried this out and then built it in one man's lifetime.

Plissken🐍
 

jd755

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The sign says
SECONDHAND *****
TIMBER & CAL
the letter D is missing from secondhand as is the letter which follows the L on the last word. These are the only visible words but the sign does continue under the boxes and pipes into the shadow so it predates the conduit boxes on the wall and to the left of the sign there is another wire hanging down just off the brick pillar. The photograph is modern one shot in 'black and white' by modern I mean likely digital not film. Those boxes date from the forties/fifties/sixties.
Near where I live there are still a pair of businesses operating from inside railway bridge arches. A practice still in use today but once extremely common on this little island.

The buckets on the table looks like an archaeological survey is being conducted. Tis the law on this little island that such things are undertaken when any building/demolition/remodding reveals anything of archaeological interest.
The plumber in me says those round holes with their square recess for a lid are manholes as in access points for worker to use, I've been down a few.
 

BStankman

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Ok, Are these Tartarian Ruins in Kiev legit? I mean I'm pretty sure the ruins were there, but could we corroborate this Tartarian reference?
Yes, it is legit. But it is possible the arch-work may be from the 1800s

It is the Golden Gate in Kiev, located in Tartary minor.
Golden is probably a reference to the horde.


19720


Conventional history says it was built by tartar looking Yaroslav the Wise.

910d2e0aa19ae40444fba88453e6c463.jpg

There are multiple 1651 engravings of it, pre mudflood.

old-GG.jpg Ярослав вал и Золотые ворта.jpg

And after mud floods of 1800s. When excavations and restoration started.

kiev engraving.JPG 51.jpg

Sometime in the 1950's

content_1059.jpg
 

Red Bird

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Yes, it is legit. But it is possible the arch-work may be from the 1800s

It is the Golden Gate in Kiev, located in Tartary minor.
Golden is probably a reference to the horde.
I was looking up the mythological connections to Gryphons (Tartary emblem) the other day and they were often associated with actual gold. Most really old quotes contain this info, for instance:
GRIFFIN (Gryps) - Eagle-Headed & Winged Lion of Greek Mythology

San Francisco had gold and a Golden gate, Africa, and a lot in Croatia...
Double meaning?

https://www.guide-guru.com/best-of-st-petersburg-attractions/gold-room/

The Gallery of Jewelry of The Imperial Hermitage which was created in more recent times. The Gold Room collection of antiquities includes a large number of gold artifacts: bracelets, rings, earrings, female and male clothing decorations. The earliest works in The Gold Room date back to 4th-3rd millennium B.C. The first ancient goldsmiths' works came from The Siberian Collection of Peter the Great. Those were discovered during the period when the Russians were intensively colonizing Siberia. Scythian gold jewelry was found in the southern areas of Russia during archeological excavations in the late 18th century onwards. Greek gold jewelry was found on the Northern Black Sea coast, ancient location of Greek towns and colonies.
 

Razor2299

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In the lower picture the tunnel roof behind the men is already 'slotted' so made ready for demolition.
In the other one with the demolished brick roof lying on the trackbed, the boards stood up on end are to protect whatever is in the cut. I suspect but don't know signalling wires/rods, (physical linkages not electrical.), that were needed when the upgrading was finished.
The men doing the work are in their own clothes. Their head wear is cap and bowler hat.
The pair of tunnels are 1830's but the work going on demolishing them is 1880's according to the text over the pictures when viewed on twitter.

Downloaded the Kiev ruin picture. Enhanced the contrast and sharpened it in gimp. All I see are 'preservation efforts' of the time as evidenced by the iron tie bars and the arches. Using bricks to build such things as arches they will inevitably end up looking very similar due the the size of the brick. They can only conform to a limited range of 'curve' without being cut.
The book is dated 1890 so the 'ruin' presumably predates the publication date and is interesting to see what appears to be a brick skin over a rubble core of the ruin.

Little late, but nonetheless, this is how this Gold Gate lin Kiev, Ukraine, looks like now. By restoring it they coverd and hid everything.
 

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Jim Duyer

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The Williamson Tunnels: Edge Hill, Liverpool UK.


I came across this recently whilst looking around for other curiosities in my favourite city, Liverpool on the UK.

It is taught as fact that these were all built to give workers some work, or because Joseph Williamson was eccentric!

After reading briefly, I thought, come one, built for no reason? So I had to look further.

According to waki: Image below: 'The "banqueting hall", which is about 70 feet (21 m) long, between 20 feet (6 m) and 25 feet (8 m) wide and 20 feet (6 m) high'


That is some construction for the sake of it... 10 to 15 metres underground too...

Wiki, the ‘friends of Williamson’ website, and any other source claims that Williamson perhaps built these tunnels as a means to offering employment to the out of work of the Edge Hill area of the city, post the Napoleonic wars, or simply because he was eccentric (They've no idea)

So a self-made millionaire (Tobacco) buys a plot of land, builds some houses on it, then quarries it out and builds tunnels, chambers and banquet halls, just to give the local populous work? For 30 years he built away down there, but no one knows why? Give me a break. Look at the details in the buildings, these were built to be lived in, not simply made for the sake of it and to be filled in.

However, using the ‘not knowing why’ narrative certainly is an easy cover story to use, after all, is who doesn’t love a mystery, and it adds to the appeal of the tunnels.
The official line is no one knows why he did this? They know who he is, what he is worth, the houses he has built, but no one knows why he built these tunnels?

Friends of WT

Waki

Let us look at Joseph Williamson:

The Mole of Edge Hill, or the King of edge Hill, born 1759 and dies 1840. Even his history is a mystery, born in Warrington, oh no, after some more research, actually he was born in Barnsley, Yorkshire (still debated) He had a bit of luck in business and this allowed him to buy a plot of land in Edge Hill, Liverpool. He built some houses and landscaped the land, and for no apparent reason dug miles of tunnels beneath it. After his wife dies he becomes more eccentric. He meets George Stephenson who was building the extension of the Liverpool and Manchester Railway from Edge Hill to Lime Street stations and whose own excavations passed through those of Williamson.

Even his Portrait may not even be him according to the FOW website...

View attachment 17724
Joseph Williamson?​

That is pretty much it for waki and the FOW website FOW

Joseph Williamson Waki

Further investigation brings up the same info. It seems very little is known about this highly successful and wealthy business man… In fact, it seems without the writings of James Stonehouse, it seems even less would be known about Williamson and the tunnels.

Who was James Stonehouse?

I could find very Little about this guy, other than he was the author of this book 'The streets of Liverpool' book which celebrated the achievements of Williamson. Other than this, the guy is a ghost...

On the Fiends of Williamson website they state about Stonehouse:

'Reading Stonehouse’s writings on the tunnels with the benefit of modern research, it is clear that in a small number of instances he makes factual errors. Equally, a few of his notes appear the subject of slight exaggeration (though this is difficult to prove)'

Fabrication

I am beginning to believe this whole story and its characters are fabricated...

So according to the official narrative, from 1840 after Williamson's death, the 'Tunnels' were filled in and forgotten. Until the early 1900's when some mining surveys were done and produced some maps of part of the site, the and then some military investigations which discovered some tunnels, and then the 'association?' in 1907 produced some incomplete maps due to back fill, then no further investigation of interest until 1995 when a student from Liverpool University carried out a micro-gravity survey of the site. Interesting, why this survey on this site? Link to paper The narrative of this paper places the tunnels firmly 150 years old.

Micro Gravity: Gravimetry is the measurement of the strength of a gravitational field. Gravimetry may be used when either the magnitude of gravitational field or the properties of matter responsible for its creation are of interest. Waki

I also noticed this in a paper written on the tunnels Paper The paper however follows the official narrative mostly .

'Other possible explanations for the ‘tunnels’ construction range from a refuge for an impending apocalypse, contraband warehouses, and as a means of moving unseen through the area. There does not appear to be any evidence for these theories other than Williamson’s reported religious fervour and highly secretive nature'

:unsure: Spidy senses tingling.

Here is a drawing depicting the area in 1550. Have tried to find a source showing the terrain prior, I have not as yet. This artist must have spent so much time up there in their balloon....


Noticed how there was almost no interest in the tunnels for almost a century? Why could that be? Allow the populous to forget about them?

Waki

Some guy called Charles Hand visited the tunnels in the early 1900's and made some amendments to Stonehouse's work, other than this, Hand is another ghost.

Hand

Lets have a look at the history of the tunnels, again there is very little, from the FOW website which manages the tunnels, or waki.

‘The manner in which matters developed from this point on is the subject of much Chinese whispering and even more speculation. A choice has to be made here without the benefit of any significant documentary evidence. Most casual and many serious observers today maintain that Williamson had his men continue digging, building and tunnelling, perhaps making use of the old quarries on the site, as a response to the poverty which surrounded his neighbourhood. Certainly, the construction stepped up a gear and a labyrinth began to take shape, but was it genuinely the product of philanthropy on Williamson’s part?’

I am back where I started. Who in their right mind would build this to give people work, or for giggles? What about the planning, the tools, the skills, the spoil? The FOW website admits Williamson may not even have made any plans!

Below is hand drawn map of the tunnels supposedly drawn by Stonehouse, but again can we believe this guy?



And here is the most recently proposed map, including know and suspected tunnels.


It seems that more tunnels are regularly being unearthed (surprise) Link Note how these tunnels have names: Banquet Hall, Boiler room, Kitchen.... Tunnels my #rse.

If we look at the terrain around Edge Hill, could it possibly suggest a mud flood? I have driven up there before, and it is certainly on a steep incline with a mound on top of the hill. The train lines and tunnels do appear to be cut into the hill, when it appears it would have been easier to run over ground, but if there are tunnels already there?

Old drawing (Published 1847) and recent google earth screen grab: Again, this artist must have spent so much time up there in their balloon....

Red marks the location of the the tunnels. Link to original

Below, google earth similar view today, you can see the railway cut into the 'mound' and yes there is rock.


I am not buying any of the official narrative.

Could it be, that these (and many more tunnels were already in existence, were discovered and simply dug out, perhaps when laying railways? Further, could Joseph Williamson be another one of these dubious historical fugues, perhaps from the imagination of Stonehouse? Or are they both fabricated figures to sustain the narrative?

Could it be that this labyrinth of buildings have simple been rediscovered, and this Williamson guy has been introduced to the narrative, to cover up the actual origin of the tunnels/ rooms/ chambers?

It is pretty obvious that these are not simply tunnels. But by calling them tunnels, people do not look past that.

What also struck me when seeing these tunnels is their similarity to some other ‘Victorian’ tunnels which I came across near me, which are said to have been built in the same mid-1800s, and serve as storm drains…

Sheffield Megatron:


I have lived in Yorkshire for 47 years and not a single friend or member of my family had heard of these tunnels when I asked. It seems these tunnels have been rediscovered over the last decade by Urban explorers.

Urbex

TS Conclusion:

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to understand that there is more here than meets the eye. I am not convinced that any of these structures are what they are said to be, I believe they all had a prior use/ function. These Williamson tunnels are certainly not what they are being sold to be.

The next time I visit Liverpool, shall book on a tour and take my own images, I will also ask some awkward questions, I know what the responses will be, but I have to ask :)

Would love to hear your thoughts, and does anyone have experience of similar across the UK or worldwide?

Cheers, TS.
That close to Liverpool makes me suspect a huge smuggling operation.
 

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