The Phoenicians Once Ruled the World. They still do today!

mythstifieD

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If you are like me not that long ago, you probably don't even know who the Phoenicians are. Maybe at most you've heard of them. And maybe you've even come across a few dismissive passages on them in your readings. But their impact is unquestionable, and once you start looking deep into the subject you wonder why we are obsessed with studying ancient Rome instead of Phoenicia. I'm growing more convinced that this is not an accident, and there's some serious reasons why this history is 'stolen' and nearly completely ignored.

Stick around and I'm going to show you how the Phoenicians may have predated the Egyptian, and possibly even Sumerian cultures.

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How they were hundreds, perhaps thousands of years ahead of their time with ship building, navigation, science, economics, and masonry.

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The very letters you are reading right now are Phoenician in origin.

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We're going to discover the new world with them, possibly in the 5th or 6th century BCE (just throwing a date out there, I don't know for sure) and how this hidden fact explains why Columbus went to America, and also who was John Cabot really? Why was England idle for almost a hundred years while the Pope literally divvied up all lands discovered and imagined in the new world between Spain and Portugal? Why did the Church of England separate from the Vatican? No, it's not fully because of Henry the VIII needing a male heir, that was mostly a distraction. The Venetians (say it out loud) are almost certainly the Phoenicians, and John Cabot placed a flag of Venice on the actual continent of America which might implicate Venice actually owning all of America.

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We're going to discover that the Vikings were likely either the Phoenicians themselves or hired by them to destabilise Europe.

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The Freemasons celebrate America putting a flag on the moon, does the old land grab claim rule still apply? Did that ever get sunsetted? Does America actually own the moon? Do the Phoenicians own the moon?? The Hebrew Bible claims that Phoenicians built Solomon's Temple, and I'm almost convinced that the Freemasons today represent a long, unbroken network of Phoenicians all the way back to the beginning. The very beginning! When was that? That's a very good question, considering most of history has been distorted by their magic, we'll have to rely on a lot of assumptions but I really do hope to show you enough evidence to engage your mind and inspire dialogue on this important issue. Who are the Freemasons? Why do they, and the Phoenicians, both claim to have built Solomon's Temple? What was Solomon's Temple, and why do so-called Zionists want to rebuild it today? What is Zionism really?

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Why does it matter? Because I'm growing convinced that these people are still in control today. After making the Phoenicians central to my bias, all sorts of strange connections started coming out of the details. For example, is it possible that Communism is their idea, and was the real reason for the French Revolution, and the two world wars? Why was Hitler so obsessed with the Aryan race? Was he trying to rebuild his Phoenician heritage? (And no, Phoenicians aren't Nazi's, not exactly) History is written by the victors, so how do we trust history as we're told? Our "good guys" are gods, and our "bad guys" are devils, but perhaps they're all devils in on the same scam. Maybe they have good intentions, but I suspect whatever reasoning they use to justify their actions are likely utilitarian, cold and calculated. Is it possible that all sides of World War 2 were working for the exact same aim?

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This is not a racial theory, this is not in any way an anti-semetic idea. In fact, some argue quite strongly that the Phoenicians weren't Semites at all! I do get the feeling that they're happy to have you think somehow it's "The Jews" when really it's so much more complicated than that. The Phoenicians were a very religious bunch, but not in the way we tend to think of religion. They don't care who you are, just what you believe in your heart. If you are willing to make the sacrifices and do the rituals, you're in. Afterall, the Bible talks at length about how their people kept falling away from YHWH to worship Canaanite gods. Newsflash, Phoenicia *IS* Canaan. David Icke seems to see Reptiles everywhere, I'm not going to entertain such a notion but I will steal it as an analogy. These are chameleons that blend in to every surrounding, as long as their agenda is carried forward they will execute it any way they have to. They will be the good guys or the "bad guys", whatever it takes to keep the ball rolling to their ultimate end.


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What's the ultimate end? World Domination? No, that's too pleb. No empire has ever stood against the winds of time. I think they realised early on that anything bigger than a City State is too hard to control as a cohesive society. But what they really want is control of the whole world. Yes, they *DO* want a singular world government, or at least a "Union" of nations that acts as though it's one government. That way they can pull the strings while puppet leaders come and go. But I think we can be more imaginative than that. This is such a big ruse that it must be for a very big reason. It's as if they have some sacred duty, some eternal mission, that spans generations and inspires dedication. What really happened to humanity in 10,000 BC? Why do so many religions talk about a "flood"? What is up with all these "second coming" myths? Could the Phoenicians true desire, that they will pursue at all costs, be returning to the stars? If that's so, then who are the Phoenicians... really???

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So I lied to you. The Phoenicians don't really exist. It was a name given to them by their competitors in Greece. The name essentially means "Purple" and it was given to them because of their monopoly of purple dye. The official story is that they started in Phoenicia, which wasn't actually a nation just a collective of city-states and wasn't really called Phoenicia either. They then spread to Carthage (modern day Tunisia), and expanded into Iberia (ancient Spain). And then Rome crushed them in the third Punic war and raised them to the ground and the world hasn't seen them since. Ha ha ha! Alternative ideas is that they started in Ireland, went to Sumer and started "civilisation", expanded to Canaan, expanded to Egypt, destroyed the world with the Bronze Age Collapse, ruled the Mediterranean seas, built mines all over the world, expanded to Carthage, expanded to Spain, probably were the Goths that eventually destroyed Rome (ahh! You thought you won, silly Romans?), founded Venice, were the Templars, are the Freemasons, built the Spanish Armada, "discovered" America, sunk their own Armada and started the East India Trading Company, sparked the American Revolution, the French Revolution, sunk the Titanic and were behind all world wars. These people are not linked by race, but by ideology and symbols, and I hope you'll join me tracing their symbols back to the beginning and up to the present.

If anyone is distorting our history, and mucking up chronology, and even 'disappearing' entire chapters of our past, it's the "Phoenicians"

There's so much to talk about, think about, and it's hard to even know where to start. In this thread I will be dropping ideas, sometimes brief and sometimes lengthy, and perhaps together we can unravel their web.
 
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mythstifieD

mythstifieD

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I've recently become obsessed with the Phoenicians and their many travels. Most intriguing is the notion that they not only made it to the new world but colonized it as well. It strikes me as no wonder that it was Spain that eventually "discovered" it, because if you trace it back Spain was Iberia which was conquered by Carthage which was a Phoenician outpost.

Then I read a gold cross with the queen of heaven. This doesn't sound like Christianity. This sounds like Tanit/Astarte/Ishtar

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Here's some wild speculation for you. The original account was true, so he had to go verify. Upon arriving he knew he had to cover it up, as the implications of the Phoenicians having claim to the land would be troublesome. I would suspect he actually answers to the descendents of the Carthaginians who would be somewhat embedded into the aristocracy of Spain and his secret mission would be to discover what became of their colonies after they got cut off from the old world (when Carthage was raised)

Who knows, maybe the Spanish even sent a few ships to the new world to bring back any descendents that wished to return to their homeland (and would likely be set up nicely in honor of their lineage).
 
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mythstifieD

mythstifieD

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I don't know where it first starts ultimately but so far I've been moderately successful at tracing it all from Babylon onward. The path is Babylon > Canaan > Carthage > Iberia > England > South Africa (all realitively mainstream) but some think as well Asia and yes, America.

The Phoenicians didn't exist. They were the Canaanites. The Greeks just gave them that nickname because of the purple dye they had a monopoly on. After the Bronze Age collapse, they conveniently ruled the Mediterranean seas without much contest. They were the richest and best traders in the known world hands down. One of their major footholds became Carthage. When Persia eventually crushed their Canaan cities they remained in Carthage still exploring and trading.

I've been asked if these fine people actually discovered America back then, why keep it a secret? Of course they would! If you discover a distant land no one knows about, you can mine and develop it without worrying about the damn Romans wanting a piece. You would have virtually endless resources.

The Punic wars seemingly ended their days as an official state power. But the richest, smartest, most cunning people in the world won't just stop being awesome. One amazing fact is that their armies were mostly mercenary. I guess they figure if they just focus on getting richer, they can outsource the canon fodder to crazy thugs. Consider also that they had connections to EVERYWHERE in the known world which meant they could scout out and afford the best of the best. I can only imagine the spy network they may have had!
It just seems fitting to me that Spain, eventually, becomes the world's foremost navy right up until the English miraculously sinks their Armada. How convenient that the man who got credit for finding the New World was Columbus. Columbus > Columbia AKA Ishtar, Isis, Astarte, Tanit, etc.

Look at the emblem of Carthage

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Tanit was central to their society as evidenced by their coinage

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So it struck me like a ton of bricks when reading this post that this old man has a cross necklace of gold signifying the Queen of Heaven.

(See image I posted earlier)

While most good catholics of Spain would think this was somehow a Christian cross, this conquistador may have had secret knowledge about what's really going on.

Why did Spain "discover" America if this is true? Perhaps they decided they had the best fleet in the world now, the recently shook off the Muslims, and it was time to reclaim their lost colonies that have been on their own for hundreds of years.

Now, it sounds funny to say Phoenicians we're secretly embedded in their aristocracy. I don't think it's so nuts. The Freemasons have had a strange and massive impact on the early USA, there's literally no way to deny it. The Statue of Liberty is essentially Tanit for fucks sakes. Believe them or not, but they claim to be a continuous fraternity that goes way back. They claim to have built Solomon's Temple. Funny! Cuz you know who did? The Phoenicians! So my thought is they went underground and decided to keep their Money & Power cult alive in mystery cults, and instead of having a literal home base, instead they would infiltrate and essentially pull the strings of every nation.

The cult of Tanit is very much alive with the Elite. I'm sure you have seen this picture by now, of Anderson Cooper's mothers "art"

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Well, doesn't that look just like this, from Carthage?

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To be honest, I haven't fully fleshed out the possibilities of "Phoenicians in America" so I admit most of this is conjecture. My dad used to talk all the time about how they found Phoenician writing in America, which shouldn't make any sense. Yet, here it is (or is it!?)

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Discovered in 1877 in Davenport, Iowa

By the way, isn't it interesting that Columbus brought along Luis de Torres to be his official translator?

He was proficient in the following languages:
  • Hebrew
  • Aramaic
  • Arabic
  • Portuguese
The official reasoning is that Columbus was off to India and he would need someone able to communicate with the Jewish traders already there. But if I'm on to something here, then Columbus KNEW he wasn't off to India. If that's the case, then why would he need someone who knew Hebrew? Note that Hebrew is essentially one step from Phoenician (in fact, almost all alphabets are Phoenician in origin).

I really feel strongly that we're not told the truth about these amazingly ambitious people, even to this day. And I don't know why. I get this shivery feeling like "someone" is protecting the truth about them, because perhaps their legacy is still very much active in the world.

From Wikipedia we learn:

Columbus hoped that the interpreter’s skills would be useful in Asia because they would enable him to communicate with local Jewish traders, and he may also have believed that he would find descendants of the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel.
Honestly, I haven't tug into the relationship to the idea of the "ten lost tribes" and how the Phoenicians might factor into that. Maybe the mainstream account is legit and Columbus genuinely thought that these tribes went to India. Or maybe he KNEW BETTER and KNEW at least some of them were "lost" in America.
 
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mythstifieD

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Pondering this topic makes me really wonder... Did the conquistadors bring any very strange natives home to the new world?

Also, Im formulating a theory that the Catholic Church is a Phoenician invention. This would play well with this topic considering how interested they were on "converting" the savages. Interesting how many Jesuits went. Maybe that was cover.

I can't remember what it was called but the Pope literally is the reason for the Spanish/English south/north split in early exploration. He literally defined a latitude. It's, of course, just a coincidence that the Spanish got the south which had all the fascinating ruins and "ancient" culture!

This is good stuff. You should post it as an article. Wasn't it mentioned in thw bible that the caanites were destroyed by the Israelites? Wonder how that ties in.
OK one more before bed. First of all thank you. I'm new to this research but I've been absolutely obsessed with it for the past few months.

It's very risky to even formulate these thoughts because talking about a secret Canaanite Cabal ruling the world for thousands of years sounds an awful lot like blaming the Jews for everything, which I find ridiculous.

If anything I think these folks may conveniently false flag their acts as Jewish because it's an easy mask to hide behind.

I feel like the Israelites were a true counterforce to them. The story of Abram NOT sacrificing his child was a direct affront to the Canaanites. I'm not a Bible literal isn't but I read between the lines. I think the theory that there was no literal exodus and that the Israelites emerged as a separate sect of Canaan makes more sense. In fact there's a group of mountain nomads called the Shasu that probably were the proto Israelites.

There's a verse that commanded them to utterly destroy them else they will be a curse on the Israelites forever. Obviously they didn't since many "heroes" kept falling back to their old Canaanite cults, such as Solomon.

Who knows, maybe the reason the Assyrians and Babylonians took them away in exile was because the Canaanites (who originated from Babylon) wanted to destroy this heretic sect.

Connect the dots. Why did the Israelites return to Judah? Persia. What empire crushed Phoenicia? Persia.

Persia.. Good guys? Really makes me wonder about all the conflict going on in Syria/Iraq and the ultimate prize, Iran!

Found it! I find it interesting that Portugal took Brasil. Some "lost tribes" researchers think Portugal is the Port of Gad, whereas Iberia is a form of the word Hebrew (land of the Hebrews). Also note that Hebrew itself doesn't mean Israelite, and in fact Hebrew is just a more developed version of the Phoenician language. Hebrew's etymology is: from Old French Ebreu, via Latin from late Greek Hebraios, from Aramaic ῾iḇray, based on Hebrew ῾iḇrî understood to mean ‘one from the other side (of the river).’ Which River? Of course, the River Euphrates. Could it be?--that the Pope gave the new world partially to the Canaanites (mostly) and partially to the lost Israelite's? It would be interesting to see the below map with ancient cities and monuments overlaid, as I suspect the Iberian's got the better deal.

Personally, I don't buy into the whole "Ten Tribes" stuff too deeply, I'm not religious at all. But it's no question that these stories are referencing actual events that have had very huge impacts on history and to ignore it would be foolish. I watched a presentation the other day that basically "proved" that all the heraldry of the European kingdoms, even to this day, reflect the animals and symbols of the tribes of Israel.


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Bulls of Donation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The Spanish (red) and Portuguese (blue) empires about 1600, not showing the unsettled areas claimed by Spain
The Bulls of Donation, also called the Alexandrine Bulls, are three papal bulls of Pope Alexander VI delivered in 1493 which purported to grant overseas territories to Portugal and the Catholic Monarchs of Spain.
Description
The Pope issued edicts dated 3 and 4 May 1493. The third superseded the first two. A final edict, Dudum siquidem of 26 September 1493, supplemented the Inter caetera.[1]
  • The first bull, Inter caetera, dated 3 May, recognized Spain's claim to any discovered lands not already held by a Christian prince, and protected Portugal's previous rights. Both parties found this too vague.
  • The second bull, Eximiae devotionis, also dated 3 May, granted to the kings of Castile and León and their successors the same privileges in the newly discovered land that had been granted to the kings of Portugal in the regions of Africa, and Guinea.[2]
  • The third bull, also entitled Inter Caetera, dated 4 May, exhorts the Spanish monarchs to spread the faith west from a line drawn "... one hundred leagues towards the west and south from any of the islands commonly known as the Azores and Cape Verde". Diffie notes that it has been suggested that this change may have been prompted by the Portuguese ambassador.[3]
Dudum siquidem of 26 September 1493 addressed to the Catholic Monarchs Isabella I of Castile and Ferdinand II of Aragon which supplemented the bull Inter caetera and purported to grant to them "all islands and mainlands whatsoever, found and to be found, discovered and to be discovered, that are or may be or may seem to be in the route of navigation or travel towards the west or south, whether they be in western parts, or in the regions of the south and east and of India".[4]
The bulls were the basis for negotiation between the two powers which resulted in the Treaty of Tordesillas of 1494, dividing the non-Christian world beyond Europe between them. At first these arrangements were respected by most other European powers, but as the Protestant Reformation proceeded the states of Northern Europe came to consider them as a private arrangement between Spain and Portugal.
 
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mythstifieD

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This fork of the story is very powerful. I think should be its own story.
Crazy bit is, I don't even know where to begin. Your story about the Queen of Heaven is what inspired my line of thinking above. When I try to "start at the start" I get overwhelmed with the possibilities that I tend to just ramble. In fact, I wasn't even planning to dive into the New World yet, but I couldn't resist and now I'm seeing some interesting connections I want to dig more into.

I think your observations are pretty fascinating, and indeed I think you're really on to something that our history is being rewritten or outright hidden and destroyed from us. So I started thinking along the same ways. Instead of trusting the dates given, find the original sources. When was the source material discovered? Is the source an original, or is it a copy? If it's a copy, when was the original allegedly produced? What other variations exist?

For "fun", I did this with the Bible. The oldest "full" copy of the Hebrew Bible we know today is from a manuscript that was dated 1009CE. Except, it was discovered in 1840. Everything else is an excerpt here and there, but how do we know they were really all connected in the same way we have it today? The oldest christian scripture is from the Gospel of John, discovered in 1899 and dated to 250CE. Of course, we have the Gutenberg Bible from Martin Luther, and soon after the first English King James Bible. This happened in the 1500's, right after we discovered the new world. Right after the Catholic Church decides to divvy up the land and send Jesuits with Hebrew speaking translators to explore the new world. Not sure the connection yet. They say before that the Church only spoke Latin and the bible was only in Latin. The oldest Latin bible we still have today is from 719CE, but then again our chain of custody is only certain back to the 1700's where it resided in the "Laurentian library", previously it was housed in various monasteries (so we're told).

Crazy! This is what so much of our accepted history is based on, a book with dubious origins. I don't think the Bible was made up, but I don't think we have the original by ANY means. I think it was purposefully corrupted for political means and historical cover ups. The Exodus, for example, is pure propaganda, although I think it does reflect a true event somewhere back in time. I just can't figure out WHAT yet. I think it's all connected. But it's also connected to the pagan mysteries that are pretty much ignored these days.
 
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mythstifieD

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uh @mythstifieD is mixing two different things the real and covered up tartarian empire with the speculative neo-phoenician empire
That's quite possible, and am most happy to be set straight. This is all so very confusing and there are so many lies and omissions in history. We don't even know what really happened last week, nevermind hundreds or thousands of years ago. I just want the truth!
 

MoonWatcher

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That's quite possible, and am most happy to be set straight. This is all so very confusing and there are so many lies and omissions in history. We don't even know what really happened last week, nevermind hundreds or thousands of years ago. I just want the truth!
Have you come across anything related to the creation of the Phoenician alphabet? Supposedly it was the first language to employ phonemes (meaningless letters) rather than pictographs. The use of phonemes allows for the creation of words that describe things which don't really exist. Prior to this, pictographic languages were limited to a description of things we could see. If you do come across anything regarding their alphabet, please let me know
 
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mythstifieD

mythstifieD

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Have you come across anything related to the creation of the Phoenician alphabet? Supposedly it was the first language to employ phonemes (meaningless letters) rather than pictographs. The use of phonemes allows for the creation of words that describe things which don't really exist. Prior to this, pictographic languages were limited to a description of things we could see. If you do come across anything regarding their alphabet, please let me know
Words are magically aren't they? Indeed, words are all we have. These funny squiggles on the page or the screen somehow paint pictures, make us laugh, cry, or even hide under our blankets. Kindof amazing to think about, especially when you really consider the fact that these squiggles truly are meaningless. I've often wondered about the origin of each letter, and how each letter actually has a meaning behind it. What does that mean though? So what if the letter A used to be an Ox? Was that just a convenient way to remember how to draw it? Because it literally doesn't matter at all what a letter originally meant since they have a life all their own.

Anyway, part of the reason i'm so obsessed with the Phoenicians and the reason I think they're wayyyyy more significant than historians care to write about is specifically because of the alphabet they invented. To me, it makes them a significant pivot point on which all cultures later rotated.

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But isn't it funny that the people who gave us this extraordinary gift barely has any surviving documents?
 

whitewave

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You'd think that people who invented writing would have some written documents or inscriptions available.
 
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mythstifieD

mythstifieD

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Oh they have some, but not really much until their later incarnation as the Carthaginians, hundreds of years after they made the alphabet. So strange..

With respect to the extent and range of the Phoenician book literature, the little that can be gathered from the notices remaining to us in the Greek and Roman writers is the following. In Phoenicia Proper there were historical writers at least from the time of Hiram, the contemporary of David, who wrote the annals of their country in a curt dry form somewhat resembling that of Kings and Chronicles.[1] The names of the kings and the length of their reigns were carefully recorded, together with some of the more remarkable events belonging to each reign; but there was no attempt at the philosophy of history, nor at the graces of composition. In some places, especially at Sidon, philosophy and science were to a certain extent cultivated. Mochus, a Sidonian, wrote a work on the atomic theory at a very early date, though scarcely, as Posidonius maintained, one anterior to the Trojan war. Later on, the Sidonian school specially affected astronomy and arithmetic, in which they made so much progress that the Greeks acknowledged themselves their debtors in those branches of knowledge. It is highly probable, though not exactly capable of proof, that the Tyrian navigators from a very remote period embodied in short works the observations which they made in their voyages, on the geography, hydrography, ethology, and natural history of the counties, which were visited by them. Hanno's "Periplus" may have been composed on a model of these earlier treatises, which at a later date furnished materials to Marinus for his great work on geography. It was, however, in the Phoenician colony of Carthage that authorship was taken up with most spirit and success. Hiempsal, Hanno, Mago, Hamilcar, and others, composed works, which the Romans valued highly, on the history, geography, and "origines" of Africa, and also upon practical agriculture. Mago and Hamilcar were regarded as the best authorities on the latter subject both by the Greeks and Romans, and were followed, among the Greeks by Mnaseas and Paxamus, among the Romans by Varro and Columella. So highly was the work of Mago, which ran to twenty-eight books, esteemed, that, on the taking of Carthage, it was translated into Latin by order of the Roman Senate. After the fall of Carthage, Tyre and Sidon once more became seats of learning; but the Phoenician language was discarded, and Greek adopted in its place. The Tyrian, Sidonian, Byblian and Berytian authors, of whom we hear, bear Greek names. Philo of Byblus and Marinus of Tyre are the only two authors of this later period who held to Phoenician traditions, and, presumably, conveyed on to later ages Phoenician ideas and accumulations. If neither literature nor science gained much from the work of the former, that of the latter had considerable value, and, as the basis of the great work of Ptolemy, must ever hold an honourable place in the history of geographical progress.
The Phoenicians Semitic speakers from the eastern Mediterranean -- neither Europeans nor Africans

I have these thoughts bouncing around my head that the Phoenicians were a deeply religious cult, but had to keep their rituals rather secretive (likely because they emerged from Babylon). From them were likely born the mystery religions, and secret societies we know today. Part of me gets a creepy feeling whenever I hear double-speak or propaganda, I think the Phoenician magicians are doing their tricks. The symbology at play in something like Freemasonry would be right up their ally. As I alluded to in another post, Freemasons proudly claim to have built Solomon's Temple, which is just a funny way for them to admit to have Phoenician descent.

And technology for that matter
Have you heard of the idea of PLUS ULTRA? "The Future Belongs to Us".. basically a cult that started in the late middle ages which guarded super awesome technology from the masses, until they felt ready to "discover" it publicly.
 

hajni

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let me to recommend you some books and writings of Csaba Varga, (he was a mathematician, excellent graphic artist, filmmaker and thinker) he says very original and interesting things about the connections of the human nature, pictures, writing signs and words


The Living Language of the Stone Age: The proto-nostratic language of prehistoric times by Csaba Varga
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something went wrong with my previous post, because the titles of the books from the Amazon were lost.
here they are: The History of Numerals and Number-Writing and Signs- Letters - Alphabets: Thirty-Thousand Years of the Alphabet - author Csaba Varga
 

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humanoidlord

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Words are magically aren't they? Indeed, words are all we have. These funny squiggles on the page or the screen somehow paint pictures, make us laugh, cry, or even hide under our blankets. Kindof amazing to think about, especially when you really consider the fact that these squiggles truly are meaningless. I've often wondered about the origin of each letter, and how each letter actually has a meaning behind it. What does that mean though? So what if the letter A used to be an Ox? Was that just a convenient way to remember how to draw it? Because it literally doesn't matter at all what a letter originally meant since they have a life all their own.

Anyway, part of the reason i'm so obsessed with the Phoenicians and the reason I think they're wayyyyy more significant than historians care to write about is specifically because of the alphabet they invented. To me, it makes them a significant pivot point on which all cultures later rotated.




But isn't it funny that the people who gave us this extraordinary gift barely has any surviving documents?
language is another topic wich merits discussion, what was the real first language?
sadly it probally din't survive time
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Have you heard of the idea of PLUS ULTRA? "The Future Belongs to Us".. basically a cult that started in the late middle ages which guarded super awesome technology from the masses, until they felt ready to "discover" it publicly.
ohhhhh! now you are talking my language!
 
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mythstifieD

mythstifieD

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So I was watching "The Other Boleyn Girl" last night and it triggered some ideas.

The official story of the Church of England schism is that King Henry Viii wanted a divorce. Most people eat it up. For love! For an heir! That's why!

So I look at the dates and find some interesting things that might coincide with my Spanish/Phoenician/Jesuit theory.

Could it be that the Vatican was actually holding England back? That England was being forbidden from exploring the New World?

Consider first his wife, Queen Catherine was Spanish and a devout Catholic. Of course, the official account is they hated each other because she wouldn't produce a male heir. But perhaps after Columbus, Henry found out his position in the world hierarchy isn't as high as he'd like and she literally forbid him from entertaining the new world. An even wilder speculation is maybe she did have male heirs but systematically "got rid of them" as some direct conspiracy against England.

So, now, let's look at a few dates:

1492​
Christopher Columbus
Spain
First voyage
1494​
(Treaty of Tordesillas)
Division of New World between Spain and Portugal
1497​
John Cabot
England
To Newfoundland; English claim to North America
1497-98​
Vasco da Gama
Portugal
Rounds Africa to India
1497+​
Amerigo Vespucci
Spain
Portugal
West Indies and South America
1500-01​
Pedro Álvarez Cabral
Portugal
Brazil
1513​
Ponce de Léon
Spain
Florida
1513​
Vasco Núñez de Balboa
Spain
Crossed Panama to Pacific Ocean
1519-22​
Ferdinand Magellan
Spain
Circumnavigation of world completed by crew
1519+​
Hernán Cortés
Spain
Conquered Aztecs in Mexico
1524-25​
Giovanni da Verrazzano
France
Searched for Northwest Passage
1526​
Lucas Vazquez Ayllon
Spain
1528-36

Álvar Núñez Cabeza de Vaca

Spain

From Gulf of Mexico into Texas

1532+

Francisco Pizarro

Spain

Conquered Incas in Peru

1535

Jacques Cartier

France

Gulf of St. Lawrence; established French claim to North America

1539-42

Hernando De Soto

Spain

Southeastern U.S. and Mississippi River

1540

Francisco Coronado

Spain

Northern Mexico and southwestern U.S.

1542

Juan Rodriquez Cabrillo

Spain

California

1565

Don Pedro Menendez de Aviles

Spain

St. Augustine founded

1576-78

Sir Martin Frobisher

England

Search for Northwest Passage

1577-80

Sir Francis Drake

England

(sorry for the formatting I'm copy pasting on mobile)

Anyway, ain't it funny? Henry's father commissioned Cabot, and after that his son Henry Viii shows almost no interest?! But what does Henry viii actually do? He's the one the built up the Navy that Queen Elizabeth so famously destroyed the Spanish with.

In 1534 the first schism happened. After Henry died, they tried to reuinify under Queen Mary. This inevitably fell apart under Queen Elizabeth who tried to negotiate a compromise until 1570, Pope Pius V excommunicated Elizabeth.

6 short years later, England is finally properly exploring North America in force, and is soon destined to be the mightiest naval force in the world.

Maybe they have to have us believe that it was all for a divorce because if we knew the TRUTH about the new world it would raise too many questions!
 

KorbenDallas

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Sounds like you need to figure out what actions, or policies of Henry VIII were hated by Vatican. All this sounds interesting enough to prompt further investigation. As is look at when the brits actually gained a strong foothold in the North America with their Jamestown. Roanoke was obviously a failure. And compare the date of this historically important but factually insignificant by scaleachievement with what was achieved in the South America.
 

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