The Grand Canyon is under 450 years old...?

KorbenDallas

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I will preface this by saying that the world-renowned conquistador Francisco Vázquez de Coronado is a very questionable figure in my book. May be he was wronged by the history re-writers, but according to what we know, the guy did not know his arse from elbow. He went looking for the Quivira Regnum, and instead of exploring the Pacific North West (where all the maps were pointing to) went to the future central Kansas.

Nova Totius Terrarum Orbis Geographica Ac Hydrographica Tabula. By Pieter van den Keere. Issue...jpg

Guess what, he even managed to find it in Kansas. Considering that Quivira Regnum was never there, his achievement is highly questionable? But then again, Mr. Coronado did not speak to me personally, his true records could have been substituted, and our official sources are laughable:
  • Quivira is a place named by explorer Francisco Coronado in 1541, for the mythical "Seven Cities of Gold" that he never found.
  • From an Indian the Spanish called "the Turk" Francisco Coronado heard of a wealthy civilization called Quivira far to the east.
  • Which one is it? Named, or heard of?
Needless to say, but I have no trust for the written sources pertaining to the discoveries done under the leadership of Coronado. The reason this specific conquistador is important is this. His expedition is the only source of multiple questionable "discoveries" supporting the narrative. Looking at the state of the 16th century maps, it becomes obvious that his travels do not match those maps. Yet, Coronado's explorations support the maps consistent with the late 18th, and early 19th century. This, in turn, provides for the PTB narrative. (This is also the case with many other explorers.)
  • ...another one of such questionable discoveries is the Grand Canyon
The Grand Canyon
The Grand Canyon is a steep-sided canyon carved by the Colorado River in Arizona, United States. The Grand Canyon is 277 miles (446 km) long, up to 18 miles (29 km) wide and attains a depth of over a mile (6,093 feet or 1,857 meters).

Grand-Canyon.jpg
  • Nearly two billion years of Earth's geological history have been exposed as the Colorado River and its tributaries cut their channels through layer after layer of rock while the Colorado Plateau was uplifted. While some aspects about the history of incision of the canyon are debated by geologists, several recent studies support the hypothesis that the Colorado River established its course through the area about 5 to 6 million years ago. Since that time, the Colorado River has driven the down-cutting of the tributaries and retreat of the cliffs, simultaneously deepening and widening the canyon.
  • For thousands of years, the area has been continuously inhabited by Native Americans, who built settlements within the canyon and its many caves. The Pueblo people considered the Grand Canyon a holy site, and made pilgrimages to it. The first European known to have viewed the Grand Canyon was García López de Cárdenas from Spain, who arrived in 1540.​
  • In September 1540, Captain García López de Cárdenas, along with Hopi guides and a small group of Spanish soldiers, traveled to the south rim of the Grand Canyon between Desert View and Moran Point.
  • No Europeans visited the canyon again for more than two hundred years.
  • Fathers Francisco Atanasio Domínguez and Silvestre Vélez de Escalante were two Spanish priests who, with a group of Spanish soldiers, explored southern Utah and traveled along the north rim of the canyon in Glen and Marble Canyons in search of a route from Santa Fe to California in 1776. They eventually found a crossing, formerly known as the "Crossing of the Fathers," that today lies under Lake Powell.
    • Also in 1776, Fray Francisco Garces, a Franciscan missionary, spent a week near Havasupai, unsuccessfully attempting to convert a band of Native Americans to Christianity. He described the canyon as "profound".
  • Grand Canyon - Wikipedia
KD: Essentially, when we get through all the 3,000,000 and 100,000 year old bullshit accompanied by various maybe's, and possibly's, we end up with a few simple and obvious things.
  • 1540: ...the Grand Canyon was seen for the first time
  • 1776: ...the Grand Canyon was seen for the second, and third time
  • 1776: ...The US Declaration of Independence is the pronouncement adopted by the Second Continental Congress meeting at the Pennsylvania State
Never mind that various maps (+1) support the notion of the area being populated, traveled and mapped prior to the end of the 18th century (1776).
  • Yet, nobody had ever seen the Grand Canyon between 1540 and 1776. Right?
... by Quad, Matthias, 1557-1613
1600 map.jpg

1600 Novi orbis pars borealis, America
kd_separator.jpg


John Wesley Powell
John Wesley Powell (1834 – 1902) was a U.S. soldier, geologist, explorer of the American West, professor at Illinois Wesleyan University, and director of major scientific and cultural institutions. He is famous for the 1869 Powell Geographic Expedition, a three-month river trip down the Green and Colorado rivers, including the first official U.S. government-sponsored passage through the Grand Canyon.
John_Wesley_Powell.jpg

KD: Considering that the entire world suffered something catastrophic at about 1650 AD, there is no way the Coronado expedition could observe the Grand Canyon in 1540 AD. The Grand Canyon was not there in 1540. The Grand Canyon area was populated by various races residing in multiple cities.

To avoid being questioned, TPTB came up with the stupid "Colorado River" hypothesis, and added this 1540 "eyewitness" account to support their narrative of "things happened the way we tell you."

Naturally, I wanted to suggest a hypothesis of my own, where there was no Grand Canyon prior to the event which happened around 1650s. The following SH thread are being provided in support of the above hypothesis.
100 year shift
There is a slight possibility that the events of 1650s, in reality took place in 1750s. The basis for this assumption is based on a few different instances. One of those I will keep to myself for right now. It involves the City of Pompeii, and will be a thread of its own. The other two are:
1652 Nova Totius Terrarum Orbis geographica ac hydrographica tabula_1_1.jpg
  • 2. The second one is the courtesy of @Mabzynn, and can be seen here. Pretty sure it is not even a surface scratch. I have not looked for the America related events yet, but the maps sure support the
cat1.jpg

The hypothesis of this 100 year shift (could be 200 as well) is based on the following. If there was such a thing as an adjustment of historical time frames, the 1592 date for the discovery of America could mean the work in progress. As in, when TPTB was in the process of assigning various times to various events. And the above 1750s dates are conclusive with the jump start of many things in history, including the establishment of the United States of America.
 

studytruth

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Then of course you have the newspaper stories of the Smithsonian expedition that found Egyptian tombs and mummies in the Canyon and then was never heard from again. One has to ask why all the Ancient Egyptian names for everything in one specific area of the grand canyon, a place that today is basically off limits to any tourist...people trying to get in that area have been basically arrested by park services. Local natives are the only ones that can get access and generally they don't say much about what is in there- other than to call it a "place of their ancestors". The Grand Canyon on many levels is very very strange.
 

studytruth

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Thanks for that link KD. That Virginia Nevada mine shaft is definately not a mine shaft. I have been through a lot of ancient sites all over the world, and that is about what one looks like. I wonder if anything of that specific place is left to look at...anyone from Nevada possibly have the chance to get over there and see if any of that brickwork is still standing?

This site really is a treasure trove of information for seekers
 

Dielectric

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The Grand Canyon theory of having been the result of errosion is just laughable. It has never made any sense at all. Washington State has the micro version of this which is called the "Missoula Floods." Here at least the hypothesis is about the same as KD's for the Grand Canyon but of course occurring over millions of years ago and perhaps more than once. I think KD is on to something.

2A722B0F-A1DE-489A-A6C8-269C5284ED18.gif

Potholes (50 feet deep!) drilled into the basalt at Dry Falls State Park near Coulee City, WA. Deep Lake shown.

8DE085C1-8A22-4E33-B2E6-283BBE901031.jpeg

Ice Age Floods Mystery J Harlen Bretz Joseph Pardee Lake Missoula
"The only genetic interpretation yet proposed which is inherently harmonious and which fits all known facts is that of a great flood of water ..." Bretz 1927
 
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MikhailES

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Well we studied Marxism Leninism in school and history teacher told us that if slave building Pyramides did foll due to injury he was thrown under stone as lubrication. Q: was she present 3000 years ago
Be afraid, very afraid.
 

wild heretic

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I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Grand Canyon was formed from one of the big earth changes from the middle ages to 1812... in fact, I'd expect it.

Makes me wonder about the Himalayas and the Alps. Lots of natural wonders to look into he he.
 

Mabzynn

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I’m having hard time following here. What’s the relationship between the Grand Canyon and Grand Cairo?
More so just connecting the dots on the missing global flood of the period. American history is pretty screwed but we've got snippets of other places in the world. It makes sense to me if there was a connection between Egypt and the Grand Canyon that this would be the period to cover it all up. And clearly the 1754 flood that destroyed Cairo has been disappeared from history. My guess would be is that this was the same period Herculaneum was destroyed as well.

A more modern list of earthquake fatalities:

1569576652588.png


Just a reminder that these phonetic hieroglyphs were found in the Grand Canyon area:
1569580199093.png

An inquiry into the origin of the antiquities of America : Delafield, John 1812-1865 or 6 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Others have suggested that star forts were used to terraform.. Here's a a view of the reservoir/aqueduct that was at Grand Cairo in the 1700s:
1569577965467.png
 
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jd755

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I don't recall ever being told about Coronado and his antics so I went to google translate and put in the following "Discovered by Francisco Vázquez de Coronado" and google turned it into Russian for me "обнаруженный Франциско Васкес де Коронадо".
Dropping this into gibiru brought me this site Коронадо Франсиско Васкес де

Which has this tale of the unexpected.

Coronado (Coronado) Francisco Vazquez de (1510-1547 or 1554), Spanish conquistador. In 1540-41 opened the river basin. Colorado, B. Canyon, upper river. Rio Grande, the southern part of the Rocky Mountains, was the first to pass through the Great Plains to 40 degrees c. w.

Coronado Francisco Vasquez de. The most important geographical discoveries in the New World are connected with the search for the rich city of Sivola. According to legend, one archbishop and six bishops fled after the defeat of Christians to a remote island, where over time they founded seven cities. These cities quickly reached unprecedented heyday. True, over time, the legend was somewhat transformed, and the Spanish conquistadors were no longer looking for the island of Seven cities, but the country of Seven cities, which was called Sivola. According to "eyewitnesses" these cities are larger and more magnificent than Mexico City.

In 1540, having received "verified" news about the greatness and wealth of the Seven Cities, the officer, commandant of Culiacan, Francisco Vazquez de Coronado was given the task of leading a military expedition to conquer Sivola.

The influx of volunteers was very large. With great difficulty, the organizers of the expedition managed to select 300 people among the applicants for a long and difficult campaign. We must pay tribute to the talents of Coronado and two or three of his officers: they conducted an enormous expedition, which, according to its geographical results, can be considered the greatest land expedition in the history of the discovery of the internal regions of North America.

Coronado spoke at the end of February 1540 from the village of Compostela (Western Mexico). The detachment moved northwest along the coastal lowlands, and along the coast it was supposed to be accompanied by auxiliary vessels under the general command of Hernan Alarkon.

From Culiacan, a land detachment went to Sivola by the path, formerly explored by the monk Marco, who accompanied Coronado; the detachment walked from the east, along the valley of the San Pedro River, to the Hila Desert and went to the Hila River. Coronado named her Rio de las Balsas. Having then passed north-east through the southern ledges of the high plateau of Colorado, the detachment reached that semi-desert region where the Seven Cities stood.

The conquistadors were bitterly disappointed when, after a long and difficult journey, they approached the city, which they called Sivola. The city on the rock was of such magnitude and appearance that the soldiers began to curse the "lying Frenchman" of the monk Marco and mockingly said that another farm in New Spain makes a more solid impression. Sivola was built on cliff ledges so that the flat roofs of the lower houses were flush with the floor of the upper houses; she could shelter no more than 200 soldiers. The Spaniards did not have much difficulty seizing such a "fortress" and knocking out the Indians from there. Citizens were dressed in cotton fabrics or in animal skins. No treasures could be expected here, and the "beautiful cities" surrounding Sivola were even smaller.

While the main detachment turned away from the sea and started moving up the Sonora River valley, Coronado ordered Melchor Diaz and a small detachment to go northwest along the Gulf of California, to track down auxiliary vessels and give their instructions to Commander Hernan Alarcon. Fulfilling the errand, Diaz reached the top of the Gulf of California. Not seeing a single ship at sea, he moved further along the eastern shore of a large river that flows into the bay from the north. On the shore under the tree, Diaz found a letter. The letter stated the following: Hernan Alarcon sailed in May 1540 from one southern Mexican harbor on two ships, and another vessel with supplies for the expedition joined them on the way. He, Alarcon, reached the northern corner of the bay and opened the mouth of a large river. He walked fifteen days up the river in a boat that was pulled along the coast by the Indians, but did not find the Seven Cities and in two days returned to the mouth of the river.

Alarcon, not losing hope that the river could bring the Spaniards to Sivola, called it Bueno Gia ("Good Leader"); now this great river bears the name - Colorado ("Red" or "Colored"). Alarcon waited in vain for Coronado by the river and was forced to return. His helmsman Domingo Castillo mapped both coasts of the Gulf of California and proved that in the west it is not the island that separates it from the ocean, but the long peninsula - Baja California. But the map of Castillo, like the others, was classified, and until the second half of the 18th century, the misconception that Baja California was an island prevailed.

Meanwhile, Coronado sent detachments in all directions to explore the country. In one village, the Spaniards heard about a large river in the north. In search of her, Coronado sent a reconnaissance detachment led by Garcia Lopez Cardenas.

Cardenas walked across the Colorado Plateau and reached the southern edge of the Grand Canyon. The Spaniards were shocked by the view that opened to them. They believed that the depth of the gorge reached 3-4 miles; in fact, this deepest canyon in the whole world has "only" 1800 meters of depth. For three days they wandered along the cliff, in vain looking for a descent to the water. Cardenas was forced to return, and informed Coronado of a startling discovery.

The second reconnaissance detachment moved east from Sivola and discovered a village near a river that flowed southeast and flowed, as it turned out, into a large river flowing south; before that, all rivers flowed in a westerly direction. The commander of the second detachment, Jaramillo, drew attention to this geographical feature: “All the waters — rivers and streams,” he reported to Coronado, “which we met up to Sivola and beyond it at a distance of two more days, flow to the South Sea (Pacific Ocean), and starting from here - to the North (Atlantic) ocean. " Thanks to this, we can say for sure that Jaramillo has opened a watershed between the systems of two great North American rivers: the Colorado River, which flows into the Gulf of California, and the Rio Grande del Norte, which carries its waters into the Gulf of Mexico.

Coronado's main squad stepped east and marched towards the large Pecos River (left tributary of the Rio Grande) through one of the passages between the Sangre de Cristo Mountains (southern section of the Rocky Mountains) and the Sacramento Mountains. In Pecos, the detachment stopped for the winter.

Here the conquistadors heard a legend about the country of Kivira.

Legend has it that a huge river 2 miles wide flows to the east; there are fish the size of a good horse; its banks are densely populated and large canoes with twenty rowers on each side swim on it. On the river is the country of Kivira. Her supreme leader spends his midday rest under a huge tree, hung with golden bells. The inhabitants of Kivira use only gold and silver utensils, and on the noses of their canoes are large golden eagles.

In the spring of 1541, Coronado, with some of his soldiers, began a campaign against Kivira. On the day of Peter and Paul (June 29, 1541), the Spaniards reached the river, which they named in honor of these saints - "San Pedro and San Pablo." Apparently, it was Arkansas (the right tributary of the Mississippi), at the mouth of which the soldiers of Hernando Soto had already visited. 4 miles north of the river, the Spaniards again met the Hunting Indians. According to Coronado, he was already in the country of Kivira.

Participants in the campaign described Kivira as a short, rugged, full-flowing river, fresh, green, luxurious country, "which is better not to be found neither in Spain, nor in France, nor in Italy." They claimed that this country was suitable for the growth of all crops, that sometimes they found quite tasty wild grapes near streams.

The country was good, but the local Indians did not have any valuable things, even the leaders wore copper jewelry. Coronado still believed in the existence of the country of gold of Kivira and wanted to repeat the campaign in the spring of 1542, hoping to move further into the depths of the vast country he had discovered and reach Kivira. But illness due to an accident during the tournament forced Coronado to abandon further searches. Through Sivola, he returned with his detachment to Culiacan. According to one version, he died a few days after returning; on the other hand, he fell out of favor due to an unsuccessful campaign and was removed from office.


My feeling all along since delving into the 'kickstart' San Francisco got and the very dodgy circumstances we are told brought it about is the entire west coast of north America and probably a fair way inland was known and known in detail to the Russians and the Chinese. Finding any evidence of this feeling being reality is proving to be a bit of a bugger.

These tales of Spanish discovery have to be seen in light of the predominance of the Roman Catholic Church of 'the day', whatever the day was in reality. Consequently any 'over egging' in the tale is done to please the Roman Catholic who was 'in control' be they pope, cardinal, archbishop or their 'front men and women' the aristocratic/monarchic figures we are so often told about whilst the power in the background the religious members remain all but anonymous.

With that wander over with this discovery reads to me like fiction. Not so much for what it says but more for what it leaves out.
Are there any local people sources, probably oral or possibly pictorial, who can tell the tale of their ancestors whose words have been recorded in sound or writing that could be looked at to get a different angle?

I'll keep plodding away at the Russian connection, Chinese is beyond me, but its like walking through treacle.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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I wouldn't be surprised at all if the Grand Canyon was formed from one of the big earth changes from the middle ages to 1812... in fact, I'd expect it.

Makes me wonder about the Himalayas and the Alps. Lots of natural wonders to look into he he.
Interesting. Do we have any info on the Grand Canyon attributed to between 1776 and 1812, and 1812 and 1869. Would be interesting to see when it really starts popping up on the radar.
 

Mabzynn

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Interesting. Do we have any info on the Grand Canyon attributed to between 1776 and 1812, and 1812 and 1869. Would be interesting to see when it really starts popping up on the radar.
In 1871 Powell first used the term "Grand Canyon"; previously it had been called the "Big Canyon". In 1889, Frank M. Brown wanted to build a railroad along the Colorado River to carry coal.

Powell was a Smithsonian man...
Exploration of the Colorado River of the West and Its Tributaries

Not looking good. Ngram isn't showing anything before 1871 for "Big Canyon" or "big canyon."

First reference I can find is 1869 discussing Powell...

The Shasta courier. [volume], January 09, 1869, Image 1
1569596606557.png

The Shasta courier. [volume] (Shasta, Calif.) 1852-1872, January 09, 1869, Image 1

All newspaper references to the "Big Canyon" pre-1869 seem to be talking about Big Canyon Mine in California.
 
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jd755

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Not sure where to post these screenshots. There's two or three possibles but posting here. Feel free to shift them to another more appropriate or I can post a new thread.

All captures from this pdf of a 1991 document
https://irma.nps.gov/DataStore/DownloadFile/487372

Seems Coronado didn't discover the canyon. Check the last image. Although the story reads more like a western paperback to be honest.

a.png
b.png
c.png
d.png
e.png
f.png
g.png
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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That would be a trick if the Grand Canyon got formed by the New Madrid Earthquake of 1812, wouldn't it?
  • So far prior to 1812, we have one witness account dated with 1540, and two accounts dated with 1776. I think it is rather suspicious. IMHO, three accounts are not be hard to fake.
Going back to the previously mentioned time gaps between 1776 and 1812, and 1812 and 1869. The only meaningful Grand Canyon information pre-dating 1869 (I was able to locate) pertains to 1857-1858:
Joseph-C.-Ives.jpg

Joseph Christmas Ives would navigate up river using a fifty-foot long sternwheel steamboat, the Explorer. His plan was to steam up the Colorado River from the known into the unknown. However, he crashed just below Black Canyon, not yet in Grand Canyon itself, but continued upriver for another thirty miles in a skiff. Continuing on foot, his overland journey took him down into the canyon at Diamond Creek, today part of the Hualapai Indian Reservation.

explorer_boat.jpg

In his Report upon the Colorado River of the West; Explored in 1857 and 1858 (Washington: GPO, 1861), Ives admires the canyon’s scenery:
  • The extent and magnitude of the system of canyons is astounding. The plateau is cut into shreds by these gigantic chasms, and resembles a vast ruin. Belts of country miles in width have been swept away, leaving only isolated mountains standing in the gap. Fissures so profound that the eye cannot penetrate their depths are separated by walls whose thickness one can almost span, and slender spires that seem to be tottering upon their bases shoot up thousands of feet from the vaults below.
kd_separator.jpg

KD: What do we have for the Grand Canyon to cover the time gap between 1776 and 1857? It appears to be getting more interesting as we go.
  • By the way, what is the date of the first image of any kind pertaining to the Grand Canyon?
 

Vespasian

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I'm a big fan of where KD started going with Mutiny in the Sky post and some assumptions I operate under briefly;
- Atlantis was what was lost. A global united civilisation based on Celestial principles. This is evidenced by the same Celestial (key word) architecture found globally that the world's administrators (the Vatican) sold to us as "Greco-Roman" architecture.
- We are Celestial's in Amnesia.
- Who sunk Atlantis? The same "god(s)" in the Biblical texts - it's the same story in Genesis. Why did they sink Atlantis and reset the earth? Because of the Celestial equation (see Genesis and Book of Enoch where Jehovah and the Elohim were unhappy with Celestials and mixing and therefore flooded the earth... had what we might call a dummy spit).

Ok that out of the way (thanks for entertaining my assumptions haha). I also like KD's article about the Earth Quarry and believe the Grand Canyon is the remnant of a strip mining operation that happened before or after the reset and re-colonisation (some ~300yrs ago). We still do mining operations like this today and the results still looks exactly the same. Unlike our smaller operations -- this one was on a grand scale.

Strip mined Canyon.jpg

It happened all over the world. The Sahara deserts (sand and salt lakes) are the waste materials and outputs from the stripping of the earth. This is the Karakum Desert in Asia. Just like the flat tops of former great world trees that were cut down - this was one huge mining operation.

Karakum Desert Asia.jpeg

Think of excavators like Cuttlefish Bagger - but on a much bigger, grander scale;

Strip Mined.jpeg


Cuttlefish Bagger.jpeg
These are not natural formations - they're the results of the great giant world trees being cut down and the earth being strip mined for resources:

Strip mined earth 1.jpg

Question is, why did they strip mine big parts of the earth?
What were they using these resources for?
The answer IMHO lies in the continuing 'Star Wars' we (in amnesia) continue to be in.
We (global united civilisation known as Atlantis) were / are in a Star Wars with the gods.
We lost the last great battle and they (the "sky gods" AKA Elohim AKA Gods of Olympus AKA Egyptian Dieties AKA Annunaki etc. etc. - they're all the same crew expressed by different cultures), built something to put us in amnesia. What I believe is a prison-matrix-farm. I believe it has to do with the way the Dome (or Cosmic Egg) now operates once they installed this new system (and now nothing grows big anymore; energy in the atmosphere has been altered etc.)

Thanks for reading and apologies if this has already been covered in another topic - appreciate you all and the work you do, cheers!
 
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PrimalRed

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Kent Hovind has some interesting analysis of Grand Canyon:
I also think it would be worthwhile to try and find some oral history of Grand Canyon from the Native Americans who’ve lived there
 

wild heretic

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Interesting. Do we have any info on the Grand Canyon attributed to between 1776 and 1812, and 1812 and 1869. Would be interesting to see when it really starts popping up on the radar.
Sadly I don't have any Korben. I've only looked at Baja California and Alaska in detail. I nearly looked at Florida too, but thought I didn't need to. Florida is another area with big changes.

The Grand Canyon is definitely worth looking into I think.
 

madroona

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I don't recall ever being told about Coronado and his antics so I went to google translate and put in the following "Discovered by Francisco Vázquez de Coronado" and google turned it into Russian for me "обнаруженный Франциско Васкес де Коронадо".
Dropping this into gibiru brought me this site Коронадо Франсиско Васкес де
I just wanted to say: BRILLIANT cross-researching. Tapping this one into the ole nog'n for future reference.
 
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