The Aqueduct at Queretaro, and other ones

KorbenDallas

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The most prominent feature of the Queretaro city is its enormous aqueduct, consisting of seventy four arches, each twenty meters wide with a total extension of 1,280 meters and an average height of twenty three meters (~75 feet). It was built by the Marquis Juan Antonio de Urrutia y Arana between 1726 and 1738 at the request of the nuns of the Santa Clara Convent to bring water to the residents of the city from La Cañada. Most of the rest of Querétaro's notable sites are located in the historic center, which is pedestrian-friendly and filled with colonial architecture.
The Aqueduct at Queretaro
mexico-feature-queretaro-aqueduct.jpg


1897
1897 Mexican Central Railway - the Aqueduct at Queretaro.jpg

Source
kd_separator.jpg

We are told that this 75 ft tall and 4,199 ft long structure was built for the purposes of supplying the city of Queretaro with water. But was it really what it was built for?

The below images are just an example of similar structures used for transportation, just like the above Queretaro Aqueduct is just one of the alleged water supply structures. Obviously, both look very similar.

Kangra Valley Railway
Kangra Valley Railway.jpg


Some Railroad Bridge
aqueduct_1.jpg

KD: What do you think the true purpose of these "aqueducts" was? Were they made for the water supply purposes or for something else?
  • I have ancient transportation in mind.
Were they built by those, who allegedly (officially) got them constructed?
 

Obertryn

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I am somewhat unsure as to how an aqueduct is supposed to transport water in the first place. Why are they built so high up? How do they control the direction of the flow of water, especially on an elevated surface? How do they prevent overflow in the case of heavy rain or flooding? The Romans, for example, apparently had sophisticated plumbing systems for sewage control and so on, why couldn't they just direct that water flow underground, like we do in modern times? I will freely admit I am very much not up-to-date on the latest scientific consensus regarding this, so I will kindly do my research then return. If nothing else, I might learn how to fix my sink without paying the plumber outrageous prices. Also, they look more like bridges to me.

EDIT: And consider, if aqueducts were supposed to bring in water from very far away. Say you want to lay a siege to a city, stave them out. Aqueducts look incredibly frail and they seem outside the bounds of the city most of the time. What's stopping you knocking that thing down, cutting off the water supply and then waiting until the residents crawl out of the city on their knees, begging you for mercy?
 

jd755

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Not a clue about the purpose of aqueducts or who actually built them but the structures span valleys in most cases I have seen that's about it.
However on this blighted isle there are viaducts carrying canals and railway tracks that also span valleys and are dead level.
Not sure how relevant that is to anything beyond the fact the engineering is very similar and at least the original purpose of the viaducts is still known as is the technology to build and repair them is still in use. In a hundred years though who knows?
 

BrokenAgate

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In order for water to flow, the aqueduct has to be higher where the water is, and lower where it enters the city. Is this the case with this aqueduct? If so, what is the slope angle? If it isn't angled, I can't see how water would flow through it, but I guess it does. I'd like to see where, exactly, it enters the city, and how the water is distributed from that point throughout the rest of the town.

As for it's actual purpose, maybe some kind of electricity conductor? We see lots of power plants near water.
 

jd755

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Looking for a picture of the Mexican aqueduct from above in English and Spanish brought forth none. Interestingly, or not, the Spanish language search brought up some different images to the English though a lot of the same.

Turns out there are a lot in Mexico.
Acueductos en México
Other than being given a 'build date' (far enough back to be 'beyond further investigation much like the 2,000 year old 'ancient hero's' and the 'reformation flood') and often a name of a Spaniard attached to it there isn't much else 'known'

Also turns out is 'an offence' to walk on it!
Man arrested for walking on top of Querétaro’s Aqueduct

arcos-qro.jpg


From the picture of the man on top of it currently, at least, seems very narrow at the top so not for any known form of human transportation as far as I can tell.

The 'ends' of the aqueduct images are non existent as well. The nearest I found is this one said to be from 1960 where the near end disappears just out of camera shot.

1960.jpg


A lot of images of the structure and its surroundings from the photographic part of the 1800's and into 1900's.
QUERÉTARO Fotografías Antiguas II
Also a lot of evidence, in my book, for an earlier style of architecture all through the area. Fascinating.

In this one it disappears into the hill in the distance.

274-2 VISTA AL ORIENTE DESDE LA CRUZ, 1880.jpg


And in this one dated 1958 it turns at an angle and to me looks to have recently had its mortar either replaced or cleaned going off the 'whiteness' of it.

269-2 ACUEDUCTO, 1958.jpg
 

BStankman

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The 'ends' of the aqueduct images are non existent as well.
Yes, I am finding that very frustrating. It looks like some of these aqueducts begin with water towers.

9f0d6845fcca4d13bbe89085fe51f124--cancun-nevada.jpg27645d230ed60131d19b3f33b717598c--mexico-city-manuel.jpgtoweraqueduct.jpg

And I assume they end in fountains.

Fountain_of_Neptune,_Queretaro,_Mexico,_ca.1905-1910_(CHS-637).jpg4a27147v.jpg

A lot of images of the structure and its surroundings from the photographic part of the 1800's and into 1900's.
QUERÉTARO Fotografías Antiguas II
This gallery is amazing. Mudflood evidence is everywhere, at the base of every structure. In the desert.
People in grass huts and donkeys living alongside what looks like magnificent Spanish Moor architecture.
 

jd755

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Glad its not just me struggling. The fountain 'end' makes a lot of sense would never have occurred to me.

Here's the next slew of confusing information.
Maybe its just me but from all the pictures of the aqueduct the only one with a sharp angle in it is the 1958 photo. I would think it must be at the town end not the bit that pops out of the hill but cannot say for sure.
From here Queretaro's Aqueduct. Spanish colonial architecture in Mexico.

On October 17, 1738, the city of Querétaro exploded in a frenzy. Enthusiastic crowds from every class of society filled the streets with colorful processions, overjoyed to see water bubbling from fountains all over the colonial city.

As chief benefactors of Las Capuchinas convent, the marquis and marquesa had heeded the requests of the concerned sisters for a supply of clean water for the growing city.

Twelve years earlier he had provided funds for a long aqueduct to bring in spring water from the ancient settlement of La Cañada, some nine kilometers distant, personally supervising the construction and even laying stones with his own hands.

Although the first section of the channel traveled underground, the final length of the waterway ran atop a long arcade that stretched almost five kilometers down into the valley where the city lay. The aqueduct terminated at La Caja de Agua, a cistern near the hillside monastery of Santa Cruz, which released water under pressure to a dozen public fountains and some 60 private ones in the city, many of them located in its numerous cloisters and also provided through the generosity of the Marqués.


Bloody hell! Nine kilometres built in 1726 4 kilometres underground. That is real engineering but the above ground arched structure is 1.2 kilometres long, where's the rest of it?

Where it all goes Pete Tong is some sources say 74 arches, others 75. Some say its no longer in use others say it is still supplying fountains.
Still I now know it ends at a convent either called Santa Clara Convent or San José de García, probably but maybe its a monastery.

The aqueduct terminated at La Caja de Agua, a cistern near the hillside monastery of Santa Cruz,

Quite how such confusion arises over such a thing I do not understand.
And still unable to find an image of the cistern end using any of the religious convent/monastery names or the underground in ground portions.

Did come across this 'looking down' image of a smaller aqueduct supplying a mill at Aqueduct at Pacho.
Assuming the Queretaro one is built the same way it must be covered over judging from the picture of the man walking along it, or maybe I am clutching at straws.
(PDF) Doolittle 2018 RGAC Aqueduct at Pacho


View-along-the-top-of-the-aqueduct-that-carried-water-from-the-spring-to-the-mill.png
 

Timeshifter

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Maybe, and bear with me on this, it was some sort of mono/ transport rail?

Perhaps stone is the key, some sort of mag lev. It looks very much like a mono rail than a aquaduct or other. Stone is key to so many structures and tech we don't understand.

Perhaps like many things it was later re purposed as it could not be decyphered.

As others have said, if a water carrier where is the massive source? No lake, well, river, large bucket, nothing...
 
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jd755

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Well anything is possible. It doesn't appear to me to have the strength to carry any kind of transportation although still cannot find any pictures of the top but going through the Queretaro pages on the blog linked to above I did find these.

This one weirdly preempts the 'modern' aqueduct walker and again reveals how thin it is on top. Also it looks to me like he is walking in a channel in the top from the position of his feet and the camera being further away with a wider view than the modern picture.
It also shows the outside of the turn pictured above and reveals it to indeed be at the town end of the aqueduct. If a monorail could execute that turn without 'derailing' I would like to see it in action.
507-2 ACUEDUCTO.jpg


Here's another without the walker.

118-0 ACUEDUCTO CON BICICLETA ,1924.jpg



This one from the air shows the reason why the aqueduct crosses the valley where it does as the town runs all downhill from the entry point so the water will move down by natural movement of always seeking the lowest level. No pumps required. It would be interesting to see just how much higher the source is from the town. Quite how this was established before it was built is beyond my comprehension.

258-2 PANORÁMICA, 1935.jpg


As pointed out above the water must fall in level from far side to town side of the aqueduct and indeed from the source 9 kilometres distant which is mentioned a few times as springs in La Cañada.
Not found any images of the source or the underground/in ground channels. I have to say that to me this is one hell of an impressive engineering job that the official story glosses over which also says to me its made up.

Here is a bathing pool at La Cañada which suggests there is a spring fed water supply there.

A495-2 LA CAÑADA, EL PIOJO 0216.jpg


As a slight aside and a probable reason why the thing had to be built is the hills all around the area show signs of deforestation on a massive scale. As you can see here the trees will grow there perfectly well but putting down enough humus (fallen forest) for them to march back to the tops of the hills seems not to be allowed.
This is also La Cañada.

A482-2 LA CAÑADA, BAÑOS ESCANDÓN.jpg


But even here the deforested hill shows no signs of having the depth of soil to aid the repair process. Robbing La Cañada to pay Quretaro seems an apt way of putting it, too me.

A480-2 LA CAÑADA, PUENTE.jpg


In this instance I feel the aqueduct is 'just' an aqueduct built to alleviate a man made problem missing water supply due to deforestation on a massive scale sometime prior to the earliest date of the photographs. Who built it, how they built it, why it was needed, what did the forest go to feed, where were the people housed, where are their gardens/fields etc are the mysteries of the thing, real stolen history.
The town of Queretaro, a place I had never heard of until Korben made this thread, pictured on those three pages reveals all sorts of things regarding the stealing of history, to me at least, so will throw a post up about it sometime soon
 
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whitewave

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Why would Quretaro be without water? Why would anyone settle an entire town in a place that's 60 miles from a water source? What happened to Quretaro's water supply? It's unlikely that people would settle and build anywhere that's so far from water.
 

jd755

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That image bank, what a find.
Been through the Queretaro pictures and manged, despite temptation, to stay with the aqueduct.
The cistern into which the water flowed, as far as I can tell. The caption is of no help. Not sure where the town is though. Could be a mis-labelled picture.

MX14642768763393.jpg

A silhouette shot of the bend and that looks like the Santa Cruz monastery outline but the town is up to the cistern end of the aqueduct so I cannot make sense of the colour shot above.

MX14121733054352.jpg

In this one the bend is in the distance going to the right but the town is further away and I get the feeling that the town was originally on an island. When I have no idea but there is something about the lie of the land that suggests it's possible.

MX14118335810108.jpg


Here's another shot captioned 'road from Queretaro to Mexico' which also suggest there was once a lake or lakes hereabouts. No idea where Queretaro actually is in relation to this landscape, sadly.

MX14642763572539.jpg

And I had no idea the Roman Catholics, Mexicans or Spanish planted what look to me to be coconut palms!

MX14260286927802.jpg
 

Bald Eagle

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Why would Quretaro be without water? Why would anyone settle an entire town in a place that's 60 miles from a water source? What happened to Quretaro's water supply? It's unlikely that people would settle and build anywhere that's so far from water.

Well, one thing that we always have to constantly be on guard about is the natural and unavoidable tendency to see meaningful patterns where none exist (pareidolia and the Clustering Illusion), and interpret things without any articulable basis in fact.
This of course is one of the primary challenges in dealing with many topics ranging from interpreting experimental data to archaeology to the logistics of the battlefield and investigating criminal networks, secret societies, and the censorship of governments.

I suppose where I'm going with that is - never ascribe to malice or supernatural or "conspiracy" what may be accounted for my human nature.

“The bigger question now becomes, "so what? Who cares?" You will never have an infinite number of balls and you will never have a large enough urn to hold all of them. You will never build a lamp that can turn on and off arbitrarily fast. We cannot investigate time or space past a certain smallness, except when pretending, so what are supertasks, but recreational fictions, entertaining riddles? We can ask more questions than we can answer, so what?

Well, here's what. Neanderthals. Neanderthals and humans, us, Homo sapiens, lived together in Europe for at least five thousand years. Neanderthals were strong and clever, they may have even intentionally buried their dead, but for hundreds of thousands of years, Neanderthals barely went anywhere. They pretty much just explored and spread until they reached water or some other obstacle and then stopped. Homo sapiens, on the other hand, didn't do that. They did things that make no sense crossing terrain and water without knowing what lay ahead. Svante Pääbo has worked on the Neanderthal genome at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology and he points out that technology alone didn't allow humans to go to Madagascar, to Australia. Neanderthals built boats too. Instead, he says, there's "some madness there. How many people must have sailed out and vanished on the Pacific before you found Easter Island? I mean, it's ridiculous. And why do you do that? Is it for the glory? For immortality? For curiosity? And now we go to Mars. We never stop." It's ridiculous, foolish, maybe? But it was the Neanderthals who went extinct, not the humans.”




Now, with regard to the water flow:
The water will travel across a perfectly level aqueduct so long as the water level at the top of the supply is higher than the outlet of the trough. It may even be purposefully designed like this, because imagine the rush and splashing and sheer force of the water after accelerating downhill unobstructed for 1.2 km. There's a phenomenon called "water hammer" and you can pop the pipes in your house apart if you don't install dampers.
The usual slope for good drainage is 1 inch over 4 feet (IIRC that's something around 7 degrees)
That allows the water to flow, but not so fast as to leave behind solids that accumulate and eventually clog the waterway.

The thing that really puzzle me is the "water tower". If that is their actual purpose, how did these get filled with water, and how did such a small volume of water fill a 1.2 km trench? It seems to point to these _not_ being "water towers" but serving some other purpose.
 

jd755

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Seek and ye shall find, said some sage or other.
From here 1er Festival de Danza chichimeca en La Cañada, Querétaro.

La Cañada is a town near the city of Santiago de Querétaro, in fact it is the historians say the first of the settlements in the region. It was inhabited from prehispanic times by otomís who settled there since it had abundant water that came from several springs and was channeled into what has been called Río Blanco.

Today this is what remains of the once important river due, mainly to pollution and overexploitation,
which first made a flour mill and then the textile factory El Hercules that was established since the nineteenth century.

clip_image004_thumb.jpg


Looks a bit sad to be honest.
 

whitewave

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Neanderthals barely went anywhere. They pretty much just explored and spread until they reached water or some other obstacle and then stopped. Homo sapiens, on the other hand, didn't do that. They did things that make no sense crossing terrain and water without knowing what lay ahead. Svante Pääbo has worked on the Neanderthal genome at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology and he points out that technology alone didn't allow humans to go to Madagascar, to Australia. Neanderthals built boats too. Instead, he says, there's "some madness there. How many people must have sailed out and vanished on the Pacific before you found Easter Island? I mean, it's ridiculous. And why do you do that? Is it for the glory? For immortality? For curiosity? And now we go to Mars. We never stop." It's ridiculous, foolish, maybe? But it was the Neanderthals who went extinct, not the humans.”
All true, of course. Still, you don't raise families, erect entire cities/towns and continue to live where there is no water. No one is going to be commuting for 120 miles round trip to get water for even 100 people in the town. Water is essential and we must have it every day. Yes, we can go a few days without water under ideal circumstances but under less than ideal circumstances you can die in less than a day without it. Even on horseback with a wagon, 120 miles would take more than a few days to traverse. There had to have been some source of water somewhere around that town for it to have even become a town.

There have been many great civilizations that just up and vanished because of drought/no water. Building an aqueduct that requires that level of engineering is not an inexpensive or quick endeavor. Why was that town so important to venture such an architectural feat? Because some nun asked them to?

It's not conspiracy-mindedness to ask pertinent questions. From your own example of the Neanderthals, curiosity and daring is what keeps us alive. I'm not suggesting a conspiracy but rather suggesting it's highly unlikely for a town to spring up where no water exists. Maybe their water source ran dry over time. It happens.
 

Bald Eagle

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There had to have been some source of water somewhere around that town for it to have even become a town.
Yes, I would agree. Although we have cities and more in places like Arizona and California which are likely dependent upon water-supply technology.
So there was either a local water source, or a means of easily accessing a more distant water source.

Why was that town so important to venture such an architectural feat? Because some nun asked them to?
Yes, that's a damned good question. It's obviously a HUGE undertaking, and the nun's request seems - a bit flimsy.

It's not conspiracy-mindedness to ask pertinent questions.
Quite right. That's what we're here for, and the lack of answers and aura of deliberate secrecy, hiding, and destruction of evidence is sufficient to warrant continual digging. Perhaps some information on the church, the nun, and the engineer/architect might shine some light on this.

Still wondering about those "water towers". Not buying that explanation of their purpose.
 

ScottFreeman

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Maybe, and bear with me on this, it was some sort of mono/ transport rail?

Perhaps stone is the key, some sort of mag lev. It looks very much like a mono rail than a aquaduct or other. Stone is key to so many structures and tech we don't understand.

Perhaps like many things it was later re purposed as it could not be decyphered.

As others have said, if a water carrier where is the massive source? No lake, well, river, large bucket, nothing...
I've always wondered at that. I believe I read that the 'Romans' who built them used lead pipe as a liner, contributing to health issues. That doesn't sound like something people so learned as to construct these would do. People later who reused them? Maybe.
 

SanPhaedrus

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Interesting stuff. I've always wondered how aqueducts work and this simple answer satisfied my curiosity:
In order for water to flow, the aqueduct has to be higher where the water is, and lower where it enters the city.
But, I'm a word-nerd, so the first thing I did was look up the etymology of aqueduct:
"artificial water channel," 1530s, from Latin aquaeductus, properly aquae ductus "a conveyance of water," from aquae, genitive of aqua "water" (from PIE root *akwa- "water"), + ductus "a leading, conducting," past participle of ducere "to lead," from PIE root *deuk- "to lead."
Pretty standard, but then, the second half of BrokenAgate's post began to resonate with me:
As for it's actual purpose, maybe some kind of electricity conductor? We see lots of power plants near water.
Maybe? Certainly more likely if they were transporting salt water, I imagine: A German energy company recently announced that it’s partnering with a university to build a massive flow battery in underground salt caverns

salt-power.jpg

Furthermore, I've heard of 'salt-water batteries' before, and I'm sure I first heard of them when a teacher mentioned the Baghdad Battery some twenty years ago, but this process (and the original process of the acqueduct) seems a little more complicated than a simple Baghdad Battery... So some further digging into the subject reveals this quick link about mixing fresh water and salt water to create energy:
Storing electrical energy in salinity gradients only
Electrical energy can be generated when mixing salt and fresh water. The energy release when mixing 1m3 of fresh water in seawater (0.74 kWh) compares to hydropower of 1m3 falling 270 meters.
Is that a lot of energy? I don't know.

A little more digging via Google's Ngram Viewer shows that the first utterance of the word aqueduct occurs around 1655, and goes dormant for about 100 years until picks up again in 1750.

Following this line of thought, I found this image, titled "Peasants by a Ruined Aqueduct probably 1655-60, Nicolaes Berchem"and I think we'd all be familiar with some of the features in this painting. :)

aqua-art.jpg

And as we follow the 'mud flood' fancy, here's archaeologists uncovering what could be Rome’s oldest aqueduct and video:


Aside from being the oldest aqueduct, what's especially curious is:
Measuring some 32 metres long, experts say such a discovery is extremely rare given how deep the section of the aqueduct is.

‘‘It is a very important find. First of all it has been found at a depth that is not normally reachable in an archaeological excavation. For that reason, the dig and construction of the ventilation shaft for Rome’s new metro C line has been an extraordinary opportunity,’‘ archaeologist Simona Morretta said.
Well, that's it for today's muddling investigations. However, I did want to note that when I first read this thread a few days ago, what stuck out to me was "La Cañada". I thought it curious, seeing as how I think giving the same names to different cities is a prime way of muddling up history, and now they did it with a country! Not so fast! There is also a La Cañada in California, and it is primarily known as the home of Jack Parson's JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory). Not that this means anything, just a fun tidbit about my thought-journey.

Cheers!
 

jd755

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Today they, whoever they are, are almost at the limit of obtaining enough fresh water to satisfy the centralised 'demand' of the city. They are now stealing it from high up the mountains. Not a clue how much higher they can go with the 'next pumped aqueduct project ' unless they have a plan or a vision of a Saint appears to 'show them the way.

Compare the 'modern hi tech' way with the way of the past.

How fragile is that?
Once the power goes off the water doesn't go anywhere. And not by chance they are further depriving the surrounding land from the opportunity to re-hydrate outwards from the stream/river valleys and become covered in green growth, but its okay because the corporation planted cactus!

Whoever it was created that earlier 'world heritage site' aqueduct knew things that seem to be beyond our imagination.
 
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