Terra Ammiracionis - Land Beyond the Sea

Silvanus777

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You guys, look at what I came across accidentally while reading the 14th century Austrian Chronicle of the 95 Rulers (Wiki), recently mentioned somewhere here on this website:

Öst. Chron. 95 Herrschaften - Terra Ammiracionis jenseits des Meeres.jpg

Translation:

"In the land beyond the sea, that is called Terra Ammiracionis, there ruled Count Sattan ("Count Satan"??) of Aligemorum. Under his rule was born a knightly man who was called Abraham of Temonaria. He was born 810 years after Noah's Flood. He took a wife from the realm Samamorum, who was a daughter of Lord Terromant and Lady Sanyet, and was called Susanna. She was born 824 years after the Flood, and was knightly too. Abraham with his wife in the aforementioned land Terra Ammiracionis had a son named Achaim, and another named Ralym, and a daugher who was called Dentarim. Abraham of Temonaria took his Lord Count Sattan of Aligemorum's possessions by war, they battled each other for a long time, and Count Sattan expelled Abraham of Temonaria, so that he had to leave the land Terra Ammiracionis alone and in poverty. ..."

TERRA AMMIRACIONIS, a land beyond the sea.
Man, this seems to be too good to be true. I have just started reading this ancient Austrian Chronicle, and have yet to read it in full to tell you more about what that is to mean. I was just really blown away by just stumbling over that passage, and had to share my excitement with you. A 14th century chronicle mentioning a land beyond the sea called Ammiracio (-nis just being the latinized ending). Good people, I do not know what this means at this point, it could have many other explanations than this being a genuine mentioning of the American continents, but please if anyone has any knowledge of the names and places mentioned, let me/us know. Could Ammiracionis, Aligemorum, Samamorum be just Roman names for places in Europe, Asia or Africa? I don't know. Maybe some of you know more - for now, it's a mystery and I am somewhat bamboozled! :eek:
 

KorbenDallas

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So we have this mysterious land beyond the sea called Terra Ammiracionis. The information comes out of the Chronicle of Hagen, as far as I understand, "Beschreibung aus der Chronik von Hagen dienen: In dem Lande über Meer, welchen terra ammiracionis heißt, herrschte Graf Sathan von Aligemarum."
Description from the Chronicle of Hagen: In the land over the sea, which is called terra ammiracionis, ruled Count Sathan of Aligemarum

If this is indeed the Americas they are talking about, we should definitely put an effort into finding some additional information. I have never heard of any Chronicles of Hagen. A quick search of this Hagen guy/thing did not produce anything valuable. Googling for Ammiracionis gives us a whole bunch of links to research.

The below passage was obviously adjusted for our contemporary chronology, judging by the mentioning of 210 BC. It also smells of a agenda, but looking through all the smoke screens we could fish out some valuable info.

That Chronicle of Hagen. What is the first known source, when was it located, and do we have its contents?
 
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Silvanus777

Silvanus777

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For any interested German speaking folks on here, here's the link to the digitalized version of the "Austrian Chronicle of the 95 Rulers".

The above passage can be found on page 347 of this document.

The narration goes on to tell of Abraham of Temonaria's long wanderings in the world after having been expelled from Terra Ammiracionis by Count Sattan, and how he finally finds himself a piece of unoccupied land upon the Danube river, 70 miles distant to any other human settlement. This occurs in the year 859 after the Flood. The land had once been called "Judeisapta" by a Jewish man, who had never actually seen it. This is talking about Austria, according to the Chronicle of 95 Rulers, which lists 13 other ancient names of it besides this one and the current. Abraham builds a house there, prepares the land, establishes a rulership (a margraviate to be precise) and founds the city of Anreytim, which is today Stockerau in Austria (all by himself? - Sil.). Upon having completed all these tasks, Abraham returns to Ammiracionis to fetch his wife Susanna and eldest son Achaim and brings them over to the newly established county. They arrive in Austria three and a half year after the original arrival of Abraham in the land. According to the chronicler, they were all pagans and worshipped idols or false gods, and are the first of a long list of Austrian rulers, intermarrying mostly with Bohemian and Hungarian aristocracy. Curiously, several generations down they line they convert to Judaism, as many of the local and neighbouring rulers were adherents of that faith.

And that is all we learn of Terra Ammiracionis and the family that came from there to establish Austria, according to the 14th century "Austrian Chronicle of the 95 Rulers". And of course, we are beholden to discard all this as fantasy and utter nonsense. No doubt most of this yet another late medieval document will be fiction, same as the tales of Charlemagne for instance, but the question is: Could this Terra Ammiracionis informational sliver be something that managed to slither through the cracks of censorship, book burnings and destruction of truthful historical records?

Who knows, who knows... And most important of all: If true after all, would this make me more of an original American than, say, the gentleman founder of this very website?? @KorbenDallas ;)

jk guys, jk...
 

KorbenDallas

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We have this text in French language. I speak none of it. Pretty sure it mirrors the German one to a certain degree.
  • Temonaria, chassé de son pays, la « Terra Ammiracionis », est venu s'établir dans un pays sur le Danube, ain land bey der Tunaw
  • Temonaria, driven out of his country, the "Terra Ammiracionis", came to settle in a country on the Danube, ain land bey der Tunaw
  • What is "ain land bey der Tunaw"?

land_1.jpg

Source
Country of 95 Rulers, or 78 Princes. Do we have any names for those individuals?
 
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Silvanus777

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@KD, the German snippet you posted is an almost word for word the same as the "95 Rulers Chronicle" I quoted says. Even the year dates are identical. I think this must come from the same text.

Oh and when the Jewish Encyclopedia mentions 210 B.C., I think they could be talking about the 72 jewish princes/rulers having ruled in this proto-Austria until they became pagans again only to be eventually converted to Christianity at some later point. So 859 years after the Flood, Abraham comes from Terra Ammiracionis as a pagan, his descendents stick to that for a while and at some point convert to Judaism, creating a dynasty of 72 jewish rulers lasting until 210 B.C. I think that is what they are talking about, after having already read through the B.C. part of the Austrian Chronicle of 95 rulers.
We have this text in French language. I speak none of it. Pretty sure it mirrors the German one to a certain degree.
  • Temonaria, chassé de son pays, la « Terra Ammiracionis », est venu s'établir dans un pays sur le Danube, ain land bey der Tunaw
  • Temonaria, driven out of his country, the "Terra Ammiracionis", came to settle in a country on the Danube, ain land bey der Tunaw
  • What is "ain land bey der Tunaw"?
Country of 95 Rulers, or 78 Princes. Do we have any names for those individuals?
  • (Abraham of) Temonaria, expelled (lit. chased off) from his land, went to establish himself in a land upon the Danube.
  • "Ain land bey der Tunaw" is a very archaic spelling of "Ein Land bei der Donau" = "A land upon the Danube river."
  • Temonaria is Abrahams title / place of origin. The Ammirocanian native Abraham of Temonaria could be from a part of the country by the name of Temonaria, or be from a family/clan/tribe going by that name.
And yes, the names of these rulers are all listed, along with their spouses and children's names, where their spouses were from, everyone's family crests and where they all lie buried. Well known places in Austria actually. Some are said to be interred by the various old city gates of Vienna, some in Tulln, some in Stockerau etc. All seems quite detailed, and the chronicler freely mentioning the burial places of these alledgedly ficticious persons of eminence seems a risky move to me. I mean, wouldn't Austrians reading his chronicle back in the day try to look and inquire for these graves when on a visit at these places and sooner or later discover him as a fraud??

KD: Do you want me to get a list of the names (+additional data) of the individuals in question? :sneaky:

For the sake of staying grounded, I have to mention that this chronicle was made to please the dukes of Austria, connecting them to the rulers of Israel and biblical history. On the other hand, according to the French text you posted, the "Roman governors" initially tried to suppress the book, but it became a huge success in the end.
 
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KorbenDallas

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May be I placed those 95 Rulers within the wrong time frame, so it's a no on the question of posting their names. If those individuals are known Austrian rulers, or anything of the kind, we could definitely omit that.

Probably should concentrate on this Terra Ammiracionis. What do we know about it out of the texts?
  • Land beyond the Sea
  • Was ruled by Count Sattan/Sathan
  • Location: Aligemorum
  • Location: Temonaria
What else?
 

ShemTov

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if you are looking for a sea near austria then at the end of the ice age the middle danube basin flooded. the freshwater sea was still there in 1528 [called "zee"]. the hapsburgs finally drained it. it was no doubt the famous okeanos potamos of greek mythology and so housed the garden of jehovah and his kikkar from genesis. also it means atlantis is there like this dude says

11640bp1.gif1528.jpgbasin.jpg

peace
 
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Silvanus777

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Yes definitely, names of Austrian rulers are irrelevant to the Terra Ammiracionis matter.

What I can add from the text is this:
  • Count Sattan/Sathan of Aligemorum was a count in the land Terra Ammiracionis.
  • He seems to be a local ruler ("... in the land of T. A., there sat Count Sathan of Aligemorum...").
  • Abraham of Temonaria was subordinate to him.
  • Abraham was born 810 years after Noah's Flood (for whatever such a dating is worth)
  • He took a wife from the realm of Samamorum (in Terra Ammiracionis), named Susanna.
  • Location: Samamorum (realm/kingdom)
  • Susanna is a daughter of Lord Terromant.
  • Location: Terromant.
  • After a prolonged military dispute with his superior Count Sattan, Abraham is forced to flee T. A.
  • Arrives in 859 after the Flood.
  • Abraham is called a "heathen" in the text, as opposed to his Jewish, then Christian descendents.
  • Crest of Abraham of Temonaria: On the helmet, a horse head, half white, half black. A shielf of 14 stripes; 7 black, 7 white.
  • Crest of Susanna / Terromant: On the helmet, a red button. A shield of green with a white tuft on it.
Well, we might be chasing phantoms or fancies here, but the coincidence of a wondrous land beyond the sea being called Ammiracionis seems too ridiculous to be just that - a coincidence. I also wanted to point out what many here will be aware of, namely that on old maps etc., "Terra" was often used for a whole continent, as opposed to just some country. See for "Terra Australis" preceding Australia, New Guinea and/or Antarctica on many antique maps.

@ShemTov Fascinating! Thanks for pointing me to some unique info once again. Never seen this before! I need to look these things up closer soon! (y)
 

KorbenDallas

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Well, we might be chasing phantoms or fancies here, but the coincidence of a wondrous land beyond the sea being called Ammiracionis seems too ridiculous to be just that - a coincidence. I also wanted to point out what many here will be aware of, namely that on old maps etc., "Terra" was often used for a whole continent, as opposed to just some country. See for "Terra Australis" preceding Australia, New Guinea and/or Antarctica on many antique maps.
I totally agree on this. Considering that the true origins of the word America are up in the air, we should continue the research on this Terra Ammiracionis.

Aligemorum is probably a city or town. Somewhat of a capital, or other type of a significant place for this Terra Ammiracionis. We do not meet any of this names on the older maps. At least I do not recall seeing any. With the amount of data contained on the antique maps, it couldbe easy to overlook a city, but not this Terra Ammiracionis. Doubt we will find it that easy.

This website here says the following, "It begins with the birth of Abram (he is called Abraham throughout the Chronicle) under the Assyrian Count Sattan of Aligem. (Several of the earliest geographic names in the Chronicle are otherwise unknown from contemporary records.) Abram took to wife Susanna from the land of Samam, the daughter of Terromant and his wife Sanyet."

Similar from here, "The Chronicle states that Abraham was born in an area of Mesopotamia called Aligemorum which was under the jurisdiction of the Assyrian Count Sattan, “Aligemorum” is the Latin name of a district which is now impossible to locate by any contemporary records. Several other geographical names in the Chronicle are unknown at present. Nevertheless, this district of Assyria encompassed the area of Ur of the Chaldees where Abraham was born."

And this here, "Abraham of Temonaria and Count Sattan of Aligemorum had war with each other, till Abraham was driven from the land in poverty. It was in this war that Haran was killed. According to the Chronicle, Abraham fled to the Danube River Valley in 1945 B.C. He built a home and lived there three years, until Count Sattan died. He then took Susanna and Achaim and went to the area we now call Palestine, in 1942. In Isaac's second year, Abraham sent Susanna and Achaim eastward back to Assyria. Susanna and Achaim then went back to their former home in the Danube River Valley."

count_sattan.jpg
From what I understand so far, the location of this Terra Ammiracionis, Aligemorum, Temonaria/Theomanaria and such is being placed in the vicinity of Assyria. It is being done based on the presumption of locality Abraham was operating in. So we are partially playing with the Sodom and Gomorrah area, as well as Egypt and Babylon. They say that "The Abraham story cannot be definitively related to any specific time".

Essentially what we have, means that we have nothing. The official science has no clue when the events took place, and where places like Aligemorum were located, for there are no records of those names. Appears that the answers could be force matched with questions.

So many texts are in Latin, with no copy-pastable text to translate using web services:
I say we keep on looking for whatever additional clues might still be out there, with the focus on the American Continent. We have some war between Count Sattan, the ruler of Aligemorum (names like these do not sound Assyrian at all) and Abraham. May be there could be some resembling records of this war somewhere. Is this even the same Abraham they think it is? This is indeed a fascinating puzzle.

Terra Ammiracionis was being called the Land of Wonder. Why?
  • This Abraham is said to have migrated to the banks of the Danube in Austria from the Land of Wonder (Terra Ammiracionis) after a conflict with the chief of the local inhabitants there.
 

ShemTov

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Terra Ammiracionis was being called the Land of Wonder. Why?
if for a moment we guess that the wonder land across the sea is simply todays western romania then there is new archaeology there that is making the entire archaeological world wonder what the hell is going on. this >>place was much bigger than rome and the colosseum could sit on one of its 4 walls and it fell in a huge war... and who has seen it in the news? i know of 3 other things there that are so out of place i do not wonder anymore.
 
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Silvanus777

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Here's a relevant snippet @dreamtime shared with me in our German chat group (Thank you @dreamtime!), and I'd like to take the liberty to post it here:

Note on Chron. d. 95 Herrschaften.jpg


This comes from a paper critically analyzing old chronicles, including the one in question, from the (obvious) angle of declaring it all poetic fantasy. Full source text here.

I'll translate that:

[JUSTIFY]"This proved true as well for the 15 country names (the chronicle lists 14 old names for Austria - Sil.), in front of which Heilig (the researcher - Sil.) eventually capitulated. At least the latinized names regarding the first "fantasy rulership" seemed to make at least some sense in the context of orientalistic analogies. For instance, the Land terra amiracionis could be interpreted as a "wonderland" (a-miracio-nis; cf. latin "miraculo" = wonder, miracle - Sil.), but also as the "land of the admirat", that is the caliph, as is also found in Wolfram von Eschenbach's work "Willehalm". It's ruler, Sattan of Aligemorum exiles the first "fantasy ruler" Abraham of Temonaria in the land that supposedly is Austria now. But whether or not this Sattan is supposed to be "Satan alienigenarum" (alieni -strangers/foreigners; genorum - people of - Sil.), that is the "Satan of Foreigners/Strangers", has to remain an unanswered question. Similarly, the origin of the first lady "fantasy ruler" Susanna of Samamorum, daughter of Terromant and Sanyet, can be seen as weak link to the ancient Sarmatians, which cannot be verified. The text unfolds in his formulaic nature no scenario from which these things could be translated. Here we also find merely probabilities that ultimately lead to nothing - pure poetic ornamentation, merely for the purpose of decoration the naked succession of text. [/JUSTIFY]
[JUSTIFY]To look closer at the Christian "fantasy rulers" up to the time of the Babenbergers makes little sense under these circumstances. Indeed Leopold (of Vienna, the chronicler - Sil.) takes these informations as excerpts straight out of "Enikels Fürstenbuch" ("Enikel's Annals of Lords" - Sil.) and adds little of his own, so I have to refer the reader to Heilig's studies, who has already dealt at length with these parts of the chronicle (those talking about Terra Ammiracionis - Sil.) - without much success."[/JUSTIFY]

To me this just means even the experts have no clue what to make of Terra Ammiracionis and, unable to make sense of it within their narrow, dogmatic framework of accepted history and chronology, are forced to resort to wild guesses or even straight to capitulation. In my book, the name interpretations would qualify as at least somewhat farfetched...

I'll have to look up "Enikels Fürstenbuch" then, and I'll also take a look at the Latin texts you linked @KorbenDallas, to see if I can gather any relevant tidbits from them.
Post automatically merged:

Additional Note:

I would see no problem whatsoever with the miraculous wonderland concept if it were indeed to refer to America (North, South or both) as a continent. Wouldn't a completely new and foreign continent present itself as an exotic and wild land of wonder and amazement (and terror) to any newly arrived first explorers? On the contrary, Europeans naming the land a "wonderland", Terra Ammiracionis, would seem quite natural to me. That being said I must note that I am not highly convinced that this particular linguistic interpretation would even be likely accurate.
 
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Jim Duyer

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In the Portuguese language, Temonaria comes from the verb temonar, meaning "boat" and signifies a server on a boat or a boatman.

But I believe that it's true etymology lies in the Ancient Greek word Temenos,
which is a noun describing a piece of land marked off and assigned as
an official domain, especially to a King or a God.

A temenos was often physically marked by a peribolos fence or wall (e.g. Delphi) as a structural boundary. Originally the peribolos was often just a set of marker stones demarcating the boundary, or a light fence, and the earliest sanctuaries appear to have begun as a peribolos around a sacred grove, spring, cave or other feature, with an altar but no temple or cult image. But as Greek sanctuaries became more elaborate large stone walls with gateways or gatehouses were built around important sanctuaries, though the most famous, the Athens Acropolis, was a palace and military citadel turned into a sanctuary.

All of the untranslated Norse, Anglo-Saxon and Welsh texts that I have
recently deciphered speak of a land in the far North that represents
a large island, surrounded by a wall. The wall is the important and
unchanging part of the various texts. I believe that this represents
Hyperborea - the birthplace of the first civilization in the world,
and the ancestral home to Germanic and Scandinavian people,
including the Scots, and later they mixed with the native Britons.
 

whitewave

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An alternate opinion. Not to be contrary, but to give voice to different ideas on the matter for studied consideration.

*Peter Fernandes de Quir relates, That he and a Commander, Lodowick Paes le Torres saw a part of the South Countrey, and in it innumerable Inhabitants, Whites,*Blacks, Sallows, with long, black, curl'd, Woolly, and yellow Hair. They know no Walls or Fortresses for Defence, Laws or Kings, but are divided into Tribes: They use indeed Bows, Arrows, Clubs, and a kind of Spears: Their Houses are cover'd with Palm-Tree-Leaves; their Housholdstuff consists onely of a few Earthen Pots, and such Trinkets; yet they have some little skill in Weaving, and though they gonaked, pride themselves in Neck-Laces and Bracelets, made of Mother of Pearl: But these for their Complexions and Constitution of Body, Customs, and manners, are rather deriv'd from the Americans, than they from them, and therefore we must seek for their Original from the North; from which are but two ways, one from Ysland and Groenland, which Grotius endeavors to prove, but contradicted; the other out of Tartary, which certainly was the first Nursery, from whence the Americans were Transplanted.

*Tartary or Tattary, so call'd from the River Tatter, which runs thorow the Countrey Mongul into the Northern Ocean, covers a great part of the Terrestrial Globe; the lesser Tartary makes out a considerable part of Europe; the greater is Asia.

This great Tartary, which is a thousand Leagues long, and six hundred broad, reckons five chief Provinces, viz. the wild Tartary, inhabited by Herdsmen; Sagatai, of which the Metropolis is Samarcand, famous for the mighty Tamerlane; next Turkestan; then Kitai, which the great Cham Commands; and lastly, Old Tartary, according to Andreas Caesariensis, the habitation of Gog and Magog.

Now we must enquire from what Tartars the Americans are Extracted:

Mornaeus, Postellus, Genebrardus, Poterus, and others are of opinion,* That the Tartars, which about the year 1228. under the Command of Zingis Cham overspread the Earth like a deluge, were the Successors of the ten Tribes of Israel, which were carry'd into captivity to Assyria by Salmanazar.* The name Tartary, or rather Tattaria, seems to be some testimony thereof, because it signifies in the Syrian or Hebrew Tongue, Remnants or Remainders,as seemingly, because these Tartarians were remainders of the foremention'd Tribes; nay, the Northern Tartary Herdsmen preserve to this day the Names Dan, Zabulon, and Naphthali: Wherefore we need not to admire, why so many Jews are found in Russia, Sarmatia, and Liefland; nay, the nearer to Tartary, the mote Jews there are.

Circumcision hath a long time been observ'd among them, before Mahomet brought in his new Law; it seems, that Mahomet order'd the Circumcision and other Laws, according to Moses, to be observ'd by the Northern people, because that in his time, they began to Rebel, that so they might the better be kept in awe by their new Religion.

Joannes Leonclavius relates, That in Liefland near Riga,* he heard the wilde Natives call'd Letti, not without great admiration, go crying along the High-Ways and Fields, with a doleful voice, Jeru, Jeru, Masco lou: It is believ'd that they mourn for Jerusalem and Damascus; but by their long continuance in the vast Wildernesses, they have forgot their Religion and Laws, and what else might enable to tell us who they were. Several learned Authors question this removal of the Israelites out of Assyria to Tartary, though to our Judgement their Arguments are too weak, to take from them of the footing they have gotten there; yet nevertheless, the Israelites are not to be taken for the Planters of America, for why else is not Judaisme as well found in America as in Tartary. But it is already shewn, that America was inhabited long before the dispersion of the Israelites.

*Now to shut up all, it is evident, that the first Planters of America were not Europeans from the dissimilitude of the People, both in their Complexions, Lan∣guage, and Persons; nor Africans, because that in all the far spreading Countrey of America, not one Negro is to be found, except a few near the River Martha, in the little Territory Quarequa, which must by Storm be drove thither from the Guinny Coast:* So that Asia, the Mother of all People, onely remains to be Implanter of our America, whose Western Coast, opposite to Asia, is more inhabited than to the East, where it respects Europe.

*Moreover, Armenia, out of which, by Noah's Progeny, the whole Earth was re-peopled, borders on Scythia, now call'd Tartary, and Tartary faces America, separated onely by the Straights of Anian; though some are of opinion, that out of the South into the Frozen Sea, there is no passage thorow these Straights; else (as we have already prov'd the contrary) how came all those Voracious and Poysonous Beasts into America, if it be clearly separated from Asia by Sea?

Da∣vid Ingram relates,

That he saw some Horses in the Northern America, which the Mexicans, and other Conquests of the Spaniards never heard of: Whereupon we may conclude, and we suppose without all peradventure, That the Americans have absolutely their Original from Tartary, which bordering Armenia, where Noah's Ark first rested, hath a convenient way, though beyond the Artick Circle, through a temperate Climate betwixt Heat and Cold, to Cathay, in the same Parallel with the neighboring America.
 
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SunBard

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In history, there's something called the criterion of embarrassment-ie, people don't admit things that would embarrass them. The Austrian Jews tracing their ancestry to a conqueror-that makes them sound mighty. Tracing their ancestry to a man who rose up against his lawful lord, literally The Worst Thing You Could Do in Medieval culture makes me believe the account is true-and that Jewish history in Europe goes back farther than anyone's willing to admit.
 

UnusualBean

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So this might be a bit of a stretch, but "racionis" could possibly mean something to the effect of "of the one who is responsible for keeping orderly".
In other words, an obscure way to say "kingdom".

Proto-Indo-European *h₂reh₁- (to put in order) + PIE *-h₃onh₂- (denotes burden or authority) + Latin -is (singular possessive/associative). These word parts can come together to form "rationis", and the the CH sound of "c" is a very short hop away from the T sound.

Terra Ammiracionis - Country of the Kingdom of Ammi (whatever that means)
 

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