Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...

sonoman

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skip to 1:40.0 to get to the the Swedish translations from old books, very interesting and these guys are on the ball, worth watching in full if you have time IMO


courtesy of GLP bluegroup:
Tartary, the civilization that we erased from history, occupied New York, Chicago, St. Louis, Washington D.C, and many other areas. They were not only all over the United States but all over the world, from the Americas to Europe to Russia, China, Africa, Japan, Australia, and more. You may have seen a number of their amazing and beautiful structures, and perhaps even thought why we seem unable to build them even today. You will not find any photographs or evidence of construction for these buildings and cities, but some of them are still standing. You may even have some in your own city, though most of them were destroyed when this great war was at its peak in the 19th century.
Q Metaphysics: Beyond Reality – The End of Deception and the Rebirth of Humanity

good read on the subject by an author from an alternate universe.

from "A New Law Dictionary" 6th Edition 1750

15776
 
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NowhereMan

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Summary: I think there is enough circumstantial evidence to justify a deeper look into who fought who, and why this Tartary country is so little known about.

And the main question out of this all should be what is the purpose of misleading generations of people? It appears there is something tremendously serious hidden in our recent history.
I was looking through an old history book I have from 1832 for any references to the Tartars, and found a single reference on page 259 to the Tartars that may be worth researching further. It reads:

In the fifteenth century, John Basilowitz redeemed the empire from its subjection to the Tartars, and united the greater part of the country under one monarchy.

I have so many more unanswered questions now, due to this lone sentence. Who was John Basilowitz? What does it mean that the Russian empire was under subjection to the Tartars? How did he redeem the empire from the Tartars? What about the Tartars made him do it? When was the empire redeemed? What was the structure of the country prior to being united under one monarchy? and so on and so on...

Yet another fragment of a potentially destroyed or forgotten history, i guess.

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sonoman

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hey NoWhereMan & welcome to SH

What does it mean that the Russian empire was under subjection to the Tartars? How did he redeem the empire from the Tartars?
the way I read that is it wasnt part of the Monarhcy/Empire until it was no longer subject to Tartarian rule. or IOW, thats when Tartaria was finally conquered there. before, it was deemed to Tartary until it was 're deemed' to that Monarch

great find.
 
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Ice Nine

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Awesome find @NowhereMan (y)
I goggled his name, and don't take goggles alternate spellings. John Basilowitz was a Tzar of Russia, who knew. I wasn't able to save any of book pages, you'll have to look for yourselves.

Oh I can link them however. there is some pretty good info buried in these old books!

Czars of Muscovy
Astracan Tartars ransacked Moscow ~ page 514 This is pretty great information

Czar John Bafilowitz don't forget their f read like our s now. This must be the book you read.

I'm reading a fascinating book
View of the Russian Empire: During the Reign of Catharine the Great ..., Volume 1 1800

Tartarian tombs go to page 448 Nations of The Empire, the last paragraph on the page talks about Tartian Tombs filled with treasures, gold, silver copper and "The greatest antiquity of the tombs is eleven hundred years, the latest four hundred". "tartarian tombs are located on the Volga and in Siberia." "weapons, military trophies ornaments of dress, coins."

Tartary it talked about a lot in this book.
 
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maxresde

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I was just going to post these couple of quotes I just noticed in something I was reading. However, I wanted to point our something from the original post here. In the image of a page from a book there, it says:

'The country of Tartary called Great Tartary, to distinguish it from the lesser, in Europe'

What Tartary was in Europe?

Anyway, the below quotes are from a history blog I was just reading. Sorry if someone posted it already.
======================
Moreover, Basil is not the only Englishman known to have been living among the Mongols during the mid-thirteenth century. Ivo of Narbonne, for example, reported in a letter copied by Matthew Paris in his Chronica Majora that the 'prince of Dalmatia' captured eight fugitives in 1242 during the surprise withdrawal of the Mongols from Central Europe, just as they were at the gates of Vienna, and that these captives included 'an Englishman' who
had twice come as an envoy and interpreter from the king of Tattars to the king of Hungary, and plainly threatened and warned them of the evils which afterwards happened, unless he should give up himself and his kingdom to be subject to the Tattars.(6)
This English envoy of the Mongols (Tatars/'Tartars') was apparently an exile from England who had lost all he owned to gambling at Acre, Israel, and then wandered 'in a shameful state of want' further east into modern Iraq and beyond before the Mongols persuaded him to join them due to his apparent skill with languages, at which point he then travelled with them until he returned to Europe and was finally captured in Austria. Given that he had clearly travelled huge distances with the Mongols and, most especially, his role as envoy and interpreter for the Mongol khan, it seems possible that he was an earlier English visitor than Basil to the Mongol capital of Karakorum, Mongolia.
=========
For example, in 1313 the royal household records for Edward II record a visit to England by an ambassador of 'the emperor of the Tartars',
=========
Caitlin Green
 

makzpj

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I have no idea what language they spoke in Tartaria, but examining this 1785 Japanese map leads me to believe that it could be written in Chinese.



It might be difficult to distinguish, especially if you don't know what you're looking for, but there are two scripts on the map. One that looks like this タルタリア and one that looks like this 韃靼. The former is katakana, the latter is Chinese (which functions in Asia pretty much like Latin functions in Europe). Katakana is used on the map as a pronunciation guide and for foreign locations that don't use the Chinese writing system (which has some potentially interesting implications for bits of Japan and Korea there, but that's a different topic).

Both of those words in bold are names for Tartaria, but the Chinese suggests that the Tartars referred to their own land as Tartar or Tatar.

Pronunciations of 韃靼 in various languages of the region:
  • Dada - Mandarin
  • Taatdaat - Cantonese
  • Daldal - Korean
But could the "ia/n" on the end actually have come from Chinese too?

Pronunciations of 韃靼人 (Tartarian) in various languages of the region:
  • Dadaren - Mandarin
  • Taatdaatyan - Cantonese
  • Daldalin - Korean
"Who are those people?"
"Oh, they're Dadaren!"
"Tartarian?"
"...Sure!"
Expanding on this, if we decompose 韃靼 we get:

韃 Region
靼 Tanned or smooth leather

Just in case this gives us another clue.
 

Mabzynn

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I wasn't aware that Peking/Beijing suffered a catastrophe in 1836 that sounds an awful lot like a mud flood.

Seems to be a copied article from another source which only complicates the matter. But good references to Tartaria as well -



"In our issue 423 of Tuesday, April 26, we announce with reference to the general newspaper of France the appalling catastrophe of the collapse of Beijing; and it seemed to us convenient to give our readers an idea of that rich population, turned today into a puddle of fetid water so that they may admire as nostoros?, the force of the natural causes that produce the subsidence and other phenomena of nature.

Beijing, capital of the whole Chinese empire and ordinary residence of the emperors, was located on a very fertile plain, 20 leagues away N. of the great wall that separates the boundaries of the Tartarian empire: this wall of admirable factory of stone is 500 leagues long: the capital formed a square, divided into two cities. The part where the emperor's palace was called the Tartara city, because the houses were given to the Tartars when the family that the present queen ascended to the throne and these not allowing the Chinese to live in. the city, forced them to settle outside the walls where another was erected soon after; and having joined this one to the other, it became of both a whole of irregular form, and of six leguas of enclosure. The walls and doors of Pekin, had the amazing height of 50 cubits, so that they hid the city; and so wide that sentries on horseback were placed in them, who climbed their posts along long coastal roads. The doors were new, without any ornament of statues or sculpture, all its beauty."

Everything seems off from the generic translation - maybe someone else can make more sense of this information.
-----

There was another strange item that I have not been able to square away and that's while searching for articles I randomly encountered a story about a Khan of Cuba but foolishly did not screenshot/bookmark it.

Instead:
Cooper's Clarksburg Registry 1854
16664


16661

Cooper's Clarksburg register. (Clarksburg, Va. [W. Va.]) 1851-1861, April 12, 1854, Image 1

Maybe I'm just ignorant to history of this period but very little is to be found on the Peace of Kianardgi(Kanardgi) maybe there's more info available for Russians. It seems to be interchangeable with the:

16663

other sources don't indicate the Cuban exception.

But this does happen to be the year Cuba builds a star fort:
La Cabaña - Wikipedia

16653

16666
 

baladelidela

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Hello everyone, I have been looking in to this Tartaria "Tartariet in Swedish" the last weeks. I have been checking documents and trying to find more clues in old books and maps. I'm not expert in old Swedish but i can understand a little bit. Old English is more easy for me to read.
I have seen some connections between old fortresses and different old Swedish buildings and im thinking its possible they were already here before. The same structure as the rest of antique buildings around the world. I have also found star forts or similar forts. A simple google search will line different pictures of Swedish castle or forts, also ancient pictures is possible Sök i Suecians bildskatt
I have looked trough all pictures and i found a few that could suggest a flud or that indicate high water levels. I dont know the background of these pictures so don't take it as proof. Also i found pictures with the 3 Swedish crowns including similar looking animal as the "tartaria flag"
At the moment I'm reading a book, Modern Part of an Univerfal hiftory from the earlieft accounts to the prefent time, part Hiftory of the Kingdom of Sweden. (So far I have learned new meanings for words I did't knew existed) Same as before I don't know how reliable this book is but it mentions exorcism, rothchild, indoctrination, tatary. And some kind of accident of a more fatal nature contributed to the kings losses.
I need to continue read this to get a better summery of the story. Some pictures i found on suecia.kb.se

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whitewave

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The Royal Military Chronicles: Or British Officers Monthly, vol. 6, page 268 The brief synopsis you read is just an introduction to each chapter of the proceeding book. It gives a chronicle of the military campaigns, rulers, politics of the various engagements in Turkey, Cuba, Tartary, etc. Also included in the chapters are details (field manual instructions) on building "fascines", land mines and other information useful to the soldier. This was from 1742 to the mid 1800's. Wasn't aware they had land mines in 1742. There are details of the campaigns waged in and by Russia (and Detroit, of all places) in 1812 which may be of interest to some readers.
Excerpt from Chapter 5 synopsis: "[Field Marshal] Suwarow is sent into the Crimea and is present at the elevation of Schabin Schiray, to the dignity of Khan. He goes to Pultowa where he is attacked by an inflammatory fever. Rejoins his corps on the Cuban and erects fortifications on the bank. ...Goes to the Crimea after the departure of Count P. and received a command. The Porte disturbed at the appointment of a new Khan. ...The Attukays make irruptions into the Cuban. Schabin Schiray is acknowledged Khan by the Grand Signor."

Cuban is one of 2 main rivers flowing into the Azov. (On the old maps it's spelled Kuban) The other being the Don. It's not the Cuba that's 90 miles from Florida. (I didn't know either and had to look it up). There are maps showing its location but they're too big to upload and the ones that aren't too big are too small to be readable. If you want to confirm you can check out the image from page 645 of '[Travels through the Southern Provinces of the Russian Empire in 1793 and 1794. Translated from the German [by F. W. Blagdon]]' . Chapter 6 of the second link is all about the defeat of the Nogay Tartars. Cossocks made treaties with the Tartars but didn't think they could trust them and so made plans to disarm and relocate them to a wasteland area and kill those who resisted. (They just keep recycling the same tyranny, don't they?)
 

Mabzynn

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The Royal Military Chronicles: Or British Officers Monthly, vol. 6, page 268 The brief synopsis you read is just an introduction to each chapter of the proceeding book. It gives a chronicle of the military campaigns, rulers, politics of the various engagements in Turkey, Cuba, Tartary, etc. Also included in the chapters are details (field manual instructions) on building "fascines", land mines and other information useful to the soldier. This was from 1742 to the mid 1800's. Wasn't aware they had land mines in 1742. There are details of the campaigns waged in and by Russia (and Detroit, of all places) in 1812 which may be of interest to some readers.
Excerpt from Chapter 5 synopsis: "[Field Marshal] Suwarow is sent into the Crimea and is present at the elevation of Schabin Schiray, to the dignity of Khan. He goes to Pultowa where he is attacked by an inflammatory fever. Rejoins his corps on the Cuban and erects fortifications on the bank. ...Goes to the Crimea after the departure of Count P. and received a command. The Porte disturbed at the appointment of a new Khan. ...The Attukays make irruptions into the Cuban. Schabin Schiray is acknowledged Khan by the Grand Signor."

Cuban is one of 2 main rivers flowing into the Azov. (On the old maps it's spelled Kuban) The other being the Don. It's not the Cuba that's 90 miles from Florida. (I didn't know either and had to look it up). There are maps showing its location but they're too big to upload and the ones that aren't too big are too small to be readable. If you want to confirm you can check out the image from page 645 of '[Travels through the Southern Provinces of the Russian Empire in 1793 and 1794. Translated from the German [by F. W. Blagdon]]' . Chapter 6 of the second link is all about the defeat of the Nogay Tartars. Cossocks made treaties with the Tartars but didn't think they could trust them and so made plans to disarm and relocate them to a wasteland area and kill those who resisted. (They just keep recycling the same tyranny, don't they?)
Thank you for this. I also realized the town is now Kaynardzha, which explains the original treaty name.
 

NemoOfNowher

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Alright since this is the big tartary thread ill just post what ive seen here.

So about a few weeks ago is when I really started to get into all this. I like to find the vestiges of things covered up in our everyday lives, and the only time Ive encountered something even hinting at this Tartary is in the common condiment, tartar sauce.
So i went up on wiki, and at the time the length of the history and etymology section was as follows

"The sauce and its name have been found in cookbooks since the 19th century. "

Needless to say I found this fucking hilarious
so I try the wayback machine and find not much but ipfs had an older version of the page, which read


"The sauce and its name have been found in cookbooks since the 19th century. The name derives from the French sauce tartare, named after the Tatars(Ancient spelling in French of the ethnic group: Tartare) from the Eurasian Steppe, who once occupied Ukraine and parts of Russia.[5]
Although it is unlikely that the Tatars ever made or consumed Tartar sauce, the actual origin of the sauce is indeed found East of France, which may have inspired the confusing name. In Turkey and the Levant, a condiment known as tarator has traditionally been used as a condiment to fried sea food. Turkish and Levantine tarator is usually a sauce based on tahini, not mayonnaise or aioli, but in regards to being a creamy, tangy accompaniment to fried fish and/or seafood, it is extremely similar to tartar sauce. The fact that tartar sauce made its first appearance in Western European cuisine in the mid 1800s coincides with a period of Orientalism(during which various aspects of Middle Eastern culture were glorified and absorbed by Western European cultures) lending credence to the idea that tartar sauce was adopted by France from the Arabic world."

That version was the article as it was on 11/4/2016 . So between that time and now they thought redacting everything but the first sentence was worth their time for some reason. (Thinking about the person whos job that was really makes me laugh in a sad way)

As I discovered this and was telling some friends about it, I noticed that the article was changed yet again!
Shockingly only the history section was affected.
The section now reads


"Ultimately, tartar sauce gets its name from the Golden Horde, Mongols who invaded Europe in the 13th century, who were known to the locals as Tarters. This name comes from confusion over their allies the Tatars, because of whom the Europeans called Mongolia Tartery. This misnomer came from associating the name Tatar with the Greek mythological hell known as Tartarus.
The Mongols brought a tradition of finely minced meat, often eaten raw. That style of raw, minced meat made its way to Russia, then Hamburg, then the US with German immigrants. There it became known as Hamburg steak, a raw minced beef patty with onions and bread crumbs. This travelled back to Europe as steacke à l'Americane, but as the novelty wore off gradually came to be known as steak tartare, and the sauce used on it as tartar sauce."

What a comedy in action.
 

djuice

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Hey for anyone interested, I was curious when I came across this theory and saw the CIA document (from the first post), and decided to follow up on the book that it referenced.

If you look at the sourced paragraph in the document ("Or let us take the matter of history...") you'll see the "12" on the right hand side of the paragraph which follows the text: "For example, on 9 August 1944, the Central Committee of the Community Party, sitting in Moscow, issued a directive ordering the party's Tartar Provincial Committee "to proceed to a scientific revision of the history of Tartaria, to liquidate serious shortcomings and mistakes of a nationalistic character committed by individual writers and historians in dealing with Tartar History."

So if you check reference 12, from the list of references then you'll see it comes from "Russia and her Colonies" by "Walter Kolarz" published 1952. Well I bought that book. Made sure to get the 1952 edition as well as it has been republished since.

I really loved this theory, such an exciting idea. It makes me think about what is really the truth and has it been manipulated in certain ways to benefit people throughout history. Although skeptical at first, when I saw the CIA document it gave the theory a sense of legitimacy and made me wonder what the possibilities were, and whether it was really true. Following the reference therefore made the most sense to learn more.

I also reached out to two of my friends who just happen to be from Kazan, in Russia, which is the capital city of Tartarstan. I mentioned the theory and my friend Timur brushed it off as a theory he had heard in the context of Tartaria being a country in the past, but that he didn't think that it was true. I followed up by showing them the CIA document, which had obviously turned my opinion round, however it didn't do much for them. I also explained the greater theory of Tartaria being a global civilization too but both of them seemed to stick with the idea that it was referring to the Golden Horde essentially, and some wider conspiracy was unlikely.

I didn't want to believe it, I love the idea of a huge rewriting of history, hiding a once global society which was more technologically advanced than you would have thought for the time period. However based on the book I bought I think that may not be true.

First, here is the front cover of the book. And its "published" info. Next here are is the section that it references:

Part 1
Part 2

With the context provided in part 1, the quote about the revisions of Tartaria's past becomes more clear. Basically the events as I understand them:

  • The communists introduced a cult of Peter the Great, Suvorov and Kutozov aka a kind of hero worship towards them as Russian symbols of pride
  • Tartar intellectuals/nationalists did something similar for Tartar Khan Idegei, bringing him back as some sort of nationalistic symbol of Pride, and praising the Golden Horde as a progressive state
  • The communists couldn't do anything at first because they needed their help during the war, it wasn't until victory over Germany was within their grasp that they could then go against the Tartar nationalists to rewrite the "mistakes" that were made with the Tartar's vision of the history of the Golden horde and its leaders

So I think that likely means Tartaria really was referring to the Golden Horde and not necessarily anything more. I know there is other evidence throughout this thread, and I would appreciate if people could let me know what the most convincing piece of evidence is for them. For me though the most convincing evidence was the CIA doc, and by following the reference I've discovered that this revision of history it references is actually fairly small and insignificant compared to what this theory suggests.

If anyone would like to see more of the book, let me know.
 
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njhomebiz

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I am not questioning what you are saying. I merely try to point out an opinion, that there could have been a global civilization covering the entire map. And if that civilization had a unified language, it could have been the same language they spoke in Tartaria. But then we have a question, does Russia speak Russian, or modified Tartarian? I know that you mentioned some evidence showing that it's the other way around, but I am yet to see that evidence. I might as well be wrong on that one. For example this 1492 map has Tartaria on there, Russia not so much.

As far as the artifacts you pointed out go. The reason for the cover up could be well beyond just Russia. It makes more sense to hide that the world was technologically educated, and global before. And if your artifacts belonged to that global advanced civilization (which could have spoken Tartarian), it makes just as much sense to prevent the info from being public. Sorry, I just do not see any direct benefit received from hiding the age of Russian heritage alone.

On a separate note, as maps and flags/crests show, there simultaneously existed Tartaria and Russia. And from what I understand, Russia played its part in today's non-existence of Tartaria.
Wow, what a fantastic link to a very old map! It's incredible. You can't even find a map that old in the archives. I should add it!
 

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