Tartarian Language and Alphabet

KorbenDallas

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May be at some point we will be able to locate the Tartarian alphabet, and examples of their writing. I do not mean the Tatar Language mentioned on wikipedia. The language I'm talking about does appear to be omitted from the narrative compliant history.

Initially, courtesy of @anotherlayer in this thread, it came to our attention that language of Tartaria was still one of the main languages as late as 1849.
Basically, what we learn from the below passage is that there were Opera songs written in Tartarian language. Being neighbored by such languages as Russian, German, English, French, and Italian suggests that Tartarian language was one of the major languages in the World at the time.

16974

Also of interest a particular excerpt from this 1739 book titled:

16977
Originally from here.
The language could be read upside down and backwards... how about that?

16978

Obviously it would be useful to obtain some additional info, and may be locate this weird all-directional alphabet. The description sounds pretty interesting.
 

whitewave

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Pre-Islamic Scripts in Afghanistan

The Śāradā or Sarada or Sharada script is an abugida writing system of the Brahmic family of scripts.

Śāradā script - Image: Kashmir Sharada MS

Śāradā script - Image: Sharada Vowels

Image: Sharada Vowels

Śāradā script - Image: Sharada Consonants

Śāradā script - Image: Die Sprachenhalle 1

Image: Sharada Consonants
Kharosthi [videos]
The Kharosthi script, also spelled Kharoshthi or Kharoṣṭhī,
is an ancient script used in ancient Gandhara


Kharosthi - Image: Yingpan Kharoshthi

Kharosthi - Kharoshthi chart by Carl Faulmann

Image: Yingpan Kharoshthi Kharoshthi
chart by Carl Faulmann

Kharosthi - Image: Kharoshti script on a wooden plate, National Museum, New Delhi

Kharosthi - Image: Kharoshti script on a wooden plate, National Museum, New Delhi 01

Image: Kharoshti script on a wooden plate,
National Museum, New Delhi
Brahmi script [videos]

Brahmi script - Image: Brahmi script on Ashoka Pillar, Sarnath

Brahmi script - A fragment of Ashoka's 6th pillar edict (3rd-century BCE).

Image: Brahmi script on Ashoka Pillar, Sarnath A
fragment of Ashoka's 6th pillar edict (3rd-century BCE).


Brahmi script - Evolution of the Brahmi script from 250 BCE to 800 CE.

Epigraphy [videos]

Epigraphy - The Rosetta Stone in the British Museum

Epigraphy - Trilingual inscription of Xerxes at Van Fortress in Turkey

The Rosetta Stone in the British Museum
Trilingual inscription of Xerxes at Van Fortress in Turkey

Epigraphy - The high medieval Prüfening dedicatory inscription, composed in Latin and stamped in Roman square capitals

Epigraphy - Ostrakon of Megacles, son of Hippocrates (inscription: ΜΕΓΑΚΛΕΣ ΗΙΠΠΟΚΡΑΤΟΣ), 487 BC. On display in the Ancient Agora Museum in Athens, housed in the Stoa of Attalus

The high medieval Prüfening dedicatory inscription, composed in Latin and stamped in Roman square capitals
Ostrakon of Megacles, son of Hippocrates (inscription: ΜΕΓΑΚΛΕΣ ΗΙΠΠΟΚΡΑΤΟΣ), 487 BC. On display in the Ancient Agora Museum in Athens.

I don't see any of these that can be read upside down, or if they can they wouldn't read the same message as right side up. I don't know how any language could.
 

jd755

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English is read left to right chinese right to left could it be that is what is meant by back to front?
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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Tartarian language could allegedly be read upside down. The second cutout has a pretty good description of the process.
 

jd755

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I'll have a look but sounds and feels like deliberate obfuscation. I just had another thought. As the pictures thread i put up shows there was no single Tartarian race or grouping amongst the peoples labelled Tartaian by those who believe in nations. Well the thought is perhaps its similar too the situation in China where the 52 tribes in China cannot understand each other verbally but they all understand the written words. I may have that the wrong way round, memory dims.
 

anotherlayer

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Tartarian language could allegedly be read upside down. The second cutout has a pretty good description of the process.
I made a joke once to a Thai friend that if you flip Thai words over, it's Cambodian. It was my way of saying, I have no idea what it says no matter which way you hold it. Maybe it was their way of saying it's "all greek to me".
 

jd755

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okay so opening up the french original: Link

and using google translate to drop in the phrases "an open book" and "Letters the wrong end upwards" chosen because they have no f's as s's in them, and then dropping the french equivalents into the on page firefox search box with the full text version of the document open produced two 'phrase not found' results, ergo those words ain't there.
Tartarian language when translated into French produced 32 matches.
Its late here and French is not a language I comprehend so later I will copy and paste passages and swap the f's for s's then do the google translate and add them into this thread because there is quite a bit about the language contained within it just not written the way the english translator worded it, as far as I can tell.

Blimey I just tried "letters" which becomes des lettres in French which found 13 instances on the page. The first result and the paragraph around produced this.

The Caracels Tarcares are of such a nature that, being a return, they are also, that is to say, that if a Tartar prefers a book or-
tares may be there. and you bind him slowly, he who does not see them.
UiT letters that will back, will read faster than you, 6c: you will warn lorque
All of them (you'll be heaving.) It's coming that people would not be able to write in Tartar, only those
who find themselves in the same room, 6c whose sight may extend
rewriting, whatever lens it may be, can not read what you write.
but they make big letters.

Tartare, who does not prefer a natural language to those of all

lion of thy other nations, 6c who does not look at her as the most beautiful 6c the most
Tartar abundant that makes the world. It is a general prevention that all
in favor of the people: each one thinks of faith, of his country, of his language, of his
Lan ^ IU. merit: 6c in the perfualion where other nations do not have the
The same advantages are given to them by the name of barbarians.
 
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NorthernLion

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Not keen on this site but duckduckgo served the page up so the references may be worth investigating.
Are the Tărtăria Tablets Actually Written in Hungarian?
Or perchance the coelbren alphabet?
Alan Wilson
Yes, and no.

To peel back this onion you need to "un-babble" the church's counterintelligence and other assorted misdirection.

The tablets are not in Hungarian per-se, they're in the language modern Hungarian is based on which is now being called "magyar".

The name itself is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. This is not it's real name, the name used by the people actually speaking the language, it's the label that is used to obfuscate what it really is and to hide it in plain sight. But, we will use the term for now since it's easy to Google.

The language base called Magyar is the linguistic origin of Sumerian, Etruscan, Dacian "first civilization" peoples as well as many others. Sounds ridiculous given the timeline we are all indoctrinated with, but it's true:

LÁSZLÓ BOTOS

Magyar-Etruscan affiliations

"The presence of the Magyar language at such an extensive geographic spread going into ancient times is the proof of a once unified world-language of which the longest surviving remnant is the Magyar. "

Also, please don't get hung up on the modern idea of Hungary, Romania, Poland, Ukraine, etc. - these are all blinds to hide the common ancestry of these peoples and languages, what we would modernly call the Sauromatian peoples of Scythia. These people have been mentioned before on the forums and are a key to understanding the war that's been waging between the old and new factions. That's a whole 'nother can of worms.

Hungarian prehistory - Wikipedia

"Most extant chronicles show that the earliest works contained no information on the history of the Hungarians before their conversion to Christianity in the 11th century.[35] The only exception is the Gesta Hungarorum, which is the earliest extant Hungarian chronicle, whose principal subject is the Magyars' pagan past.[37]"

The Gesta is one of the few surviving original texts of these peoples. Or at least that's still accessible. Its a link back to the truth before the propaganda war began.

In any case, the Tartaria tablets actually mention and show the "Sumerian" god Enki (Aquarius), that's what the little guy with the fish tail is standing next to the goat (Capricorn). Also note the little sprig of wheat between the two, which is the same as shown in the "Sumerian" seal on the right. Same language. Different parts of the world. Different artistic flare.

170221702317024

There were several types of alphabet used on this base language depending on the part of the world you were in and the time period. Coelbren was one of the earliest and was used for trade throughout the British isles, Mediterranean, Turkey, and North America all the way through China. There was also more than one form of coelbren, one of which we now call ogham. These are not "Celtic", there was no such thing as Celtic. Total myth created in the 1800s to fill a hole caused by hiding the other groups. A modern term and idea and part of the great misdirection.

In the above Alan Wilson link he mentions the "Cimmerians" using coelbren. Cimmerians are the same word as Sumerians. Pretty obvious if you just say them out loud.

All forms of Coelbren can be read omnidirectionally as can it's cousin Cuneiform. They can both be translated with the same base language. Its useful as a trade language as everyone sitting around the table can read the same document at the same time without the need to pass the paper around or flip it.

Now, is this the later Tartarian language referenced earlier? Yes, kinda. Magyar is the base of that language, but they were using a different common alphabet later in the empire. Coelbren had long been replaced with the advent of printing. What you're seeing is an evolution in a single language, not necessarily different languages.

Also, just a fun aside. The pretty "nordic pagan" tattoo symbols so in vogue these days are a multidirectional sigiled form of the coelbren/ogham on the right (book of Ballymote). Right in front of everyone's faces, yet no one is literate enough to read them.

Dumb shits.


1702017021
17025

Talks about Magyar language and an effort to wipe out speakers of it and the story it told in aboriginals, seemed similar to Hungarian.
Beat me to it! Nice find!
 

jd755

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Starting on page 82 google translate gives up this.

Although the brush is commonly used for writing, there are, however, some Tartars who employ a kind of feather made of bamboo, and cut roughly like the feathers of Europe. But because Chinese paper is without alum & very thin, the Chinese brush is: more convenient than the pen.

If, however, one wishes to write with the pen, or if one is happy to paint it with flowers, trees, mountains, & it is necessary first to pass the paper
instead, water in which a little alum has been made to prevent the ink from penetrating.
The Tarter characters are of such a nature that, being overturned, they are also read, that is to say, that a Tartar introduces you to an open book in the ordinary sense, and if you read it, he who does not see the letters all the way back, will read faster than you, and will warn you when you hesitate.
Then comes it that you can not write in Tartarus, that those who are in the same room, and whose sight can extend to writing, in any sense whatsoever, can not read what you write, All of them make big letters.

There is no Tartarus who does not prefer his natural tongue to those of all other nations, and who does not regard it as the most beautiful and the most abundant Tartar in the world. It is a general prevention, or of all peoples; each thinks of faith, of country, of language, of merit, and in the
perseverance where other nations do not have the same advantages, they are given the name of barbarians.

Fr.Parenin, who gave me this knowledge of the Tartar tongue, was very sorry for the Emperor's eldest son of this prevention, as we will see from the conversation he had with this man. Prince, in one of the journeys where he accompanied the Emperor in Tartary.

This Prince, who was then thirty-five years old, was persuaded that the sense of his natural language, and even less the majesty of his style, could not be rendered in any of these barbarous languages (so he claimed). The languages of Europe, for want of knowing them. "He tried to test it, and to convince himself of it," said Father Parrenin, "he sent for me one day in his tent.

I have to write to Father Suarez, he tells me, to recommend an important affair, but since he does not hear Tartarus, I will tell you what I have to say to him, and you will translate it into Latin. which is, as you told me, a common language in Europe for all literati.

Nothing better, I replied, taking the pen, for the paper was already prepared on the table. The Prince began at first with a long time that he did not quite finish, and told me to translate. I begged him to say everything he wanted to say, and then I would put it in Latin. He did so with a smile, as if he were trying to avoid the difficulty.

The reduction was soon made. I asked him what subscription he wanted " Let me slap to the letter. Put this one, "he replied," to the words of the eldest son of the Emperor at Soulin. " I did it, and presented him the letter, affecting not to read it again.

What do I do, he tells me, what you have written?
Is this my thought?
Is this your?
Have you forgotten anything, changed, or added?
Is not it some room that memory has provided you?
Because I noticed that writing, you have no erasures, and you do not transcribe as we do ourselves.

A little letter, "said he," does not demand that one gives oneself so much trouble, the first hand uses it when one fools one's tongue.

Well, he tells me, you want to prove to me that you are doing Latin, and I want to make sure your translation is faithful. Tell me, then, in Chinese what I have told you in Tartarus, and which you say you have put in Latin. I did it so early, and he was surprised.

This is not a bad thing, he added, and if the answer that comes is according to what you have just said, I will be undeceived, but the Father must answer me in Chinese; for if he answered in the European language, you could give me a reply in your way. I told him that he was obeyed, and that the answer would conform to his letter.
 

jd755

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From page 79
The Tartars do without it and have no need for it: the only arrangement of terms is superceded, without there being ever any obscurity or equivocation:There must never be any darkness or equivocation. Do not they have games of months or bland allusions?

Another peculiarity of the Tartar language is the quantity of terms it has to abbreviate . It does not need these periphrases, nor these
circumlocutions. which suspend the discourse and which chill it: some rather short words express clearly, what without their help one could only say by a long circuit of words: that is what is easily seen when it comes to speaking domestic or wild, volatile or aquatic animals. If we wish to make an exact description of it in our language, how many periphrases we must not resort to by the tenet of terms which signify what we wish to express.

This is not the case with the Tartars, and one example will make him understand. I choose that of the dog, that of all the domestic animals, which furnishes the least terms in their language, and yet they have much more than us. In addition to the common names of large & small dogs, mastiffs, greyhounds, barbets, &c. They have some who mark their age, their hair, their good or bad qualities. Here are some examples.

Does it mean that a dog has the hair of the ears & tail very long & well supplied?
The word Taiha comes true:
that he has a long, fat snout, the tail of the same, big ears, drooping lips?
The word Tolo says it all.
What if this dog mates with an ordinary dog, who has none of these qualities, the little one who will be born is called Perfi.
If any dog, male or female, has two furrows, two flakes of blond or yellow hair, one has only to say peat.
If it is inlaid like the leopard, it is Couri:
if it has only the inlaid muzzle, and the rest of a uniform color, it is Palta:
if it has the collar all white, it's Tchacou:
if he has some hair above his head falling back, it is Kalia:
if he has an eye of the eye half white and half blue, it is Tchikiri:
if he has the low waist, the short legs, the thick body, the raised head, it is Capari , & c.

Indagon is the generic name of the dog, Nieguen that of the female: the little ones are called Niaha until the month of february, beyond eleven months Nouquere.
At 16. months they take the generic name of Indagon.
It is the same for their good and bad qualities, one word explains two or three.

One would not end up talking about other animals: horses, for example: the Tartars, by a kind of predilection for this animal who is so useful to them, has multiplied the names in his favor, and they have twenty times more for him than for the dog. Not only do they have proper names for their different colors, their age, their qualities; they still have them for the different motions they give themselves: if they are bound, they can not remain at rest;
all freedom:
if he seeks company:
if he is appalled at the fall of the horseman, or at the foolish meeting of a savage beast:
if he has ascended, how many steps he is walking, how many different jerks it was to experience the rider. For all this & for many other things, the Tartars have words only intended for express them.

From page 80
Is this abundance good?
Is it bad or useless?
This is not good enough to decide. What is certain is, that if it lays the memory of those who learn it, especially in old age, it does them a great deal of honor in the conversation, and is absolutely necessary in the conversation composition.

Moreover, we do not see from where they could draw this astonishing multitude of names and terms to express what they want: it can not be from their neighbors: they have in the West the Mongo Tartars, & in both languages there are only seven to eight word words.
In these languages there are only seven to eight words that can not be said to have even one to whom they originally belong. In the East are some small nations, which live in savages, and whose language they do not understand, nor of those who make in the North. In the South they have Koreans, whose language and letters, which are Chinese, do not resemble in any way the language and characters of the Tartars.

Although they have only a spell of characters, they write them however of four hooks.
The first is when one writes with respect, that is to say, in characters similar to those engraved on stone and on wood, which requires a great deal of time. A writer does not make more than twenty or twenty-five lines in a day, especially when they must appear before the Emperor. If a brush stroke of a too heavy hand, forms the line wider or more painful than it should be: if by the defect of the paper it is not net: if the words make squeeze unequal: if one I have forgotten one of them: in all these cases, and in others like them, we must begin again.

It is not permissible to send a referral, nor to supplement it at the margin: it would be disrespectful to the Prince. Also those who preside over the work, do not receive the paper, where they have noticed one of these defects. It is no more permissible to begin a line by half a word, which will not have been in the preceding line: it is necessary to take so much precautions, and so well measure its favor, that this inconvenience does not occur.

The second lesson of writing is very beautiful and little different from the first, but it gives much less trouble. It is not necessary to form the finals of each word in double lines, nor to modify what we have done, or because the trait is leaner in one place than in another, or because it is a little mushy.

The third quest to write is more different from the second, than this one is from the first, it is the usual writing: it goes fast, and one soon filled the page & the reverse . As the brush retains the liquor better than our feathers, we waste less time imbibing it with ink: and when we dictate to the writer, we see his brush running on the paper with a very rapid motion, & without it stopping for a moment. It is the most common character for writing court records, lawsuits, and other ordinary things. These three ways of writing are equally legible, but less beautiful than the others.

From page 81
The fourth piece is the crudest of all, but it is also the most abbreviated and the most convenient for those who understand, or who make the minute or excerpt of a book. To better understand what I say, we must know that in Tartar writing, there is always a master line that falls perpendicularly from the head of the word to the end, and to the left of this line, we add like the teeth of a saw that make the vowels a e i o distinguished from each other by points which are on the right of this perpendicular.
If we put a point to the opposite of a tooth, it is the vowel e:
if we omit it it is the vowel a:
if we put a point to the left of the word near the tooth, this point for then takes the place of the letter n;
and it is necessary to read no:
if there was a point opposed on the right, it would be necessary to read na.
Moreover if to the right of the word instead of a point we see an o, it is a sign that the vowel is sucked, and we must read ba be, aspiring it, as it is practiced in the Spanish language.

Now a man who wants to express himself politely in Tartarus, does not find the word he is looking for: he dreams, he rubs his forehead, he warms his imagination, and when once he set himself he would like to spread his thoughts on paper without having to write it.

He therefore forms the head of character, and draws the perpendicular to the bottom: it is a lot if he puts one or two points: he continues in the same way until he has expressed his thought:
if another thought follows closely, he does not give himself the time to reread: he continues his lines, until he arrives at a difficult transition. Then he stops short, re-reads his perpendiculars, and adds a few features to the places, where someone other than him can not guess what he has written.

If reading again, he sees that he has omitted a word, he adds it beside, in
If there is one sign in the place where it must be placed, if there is one too many, if it is misplaced, it does not matter, it wraps it with an oval line. Finally, if it is pointed out to him, or if he judges himself that the word is good: he adds two o o. This sign makes him live again, and warns the reader of this resurrection.

This fourth letter of writing does not fail to be readable, when one is aware of the matter that is being treated, and that one has some skill in the language. He who holds the brush throws on paper what he thinks, or what he thinks, without seeking for truth and accuracy. After which it is up to him to work and to compose the work.

Although, during this time, others are conversing together, his work is not interrupted by it: he does not even hear anything of what is said: we are accustomed to this application of youth. He composes quietly in the midst of the noise, and seeks expressions worthy of the reputation he has acquired. Then he dreams, he looks for new tricks, he scrutinizes the words, the expressiveness, the brevity, the sharpness, the order of the speech, until it is satisfied: in the Tartar language, as in other languages, there is nothing that can be can say of a stile polite, clear, & net.

From page 78
Since the now reigning Tartarus family occupies the throne of China, the language of the Mantcheoux Tartars is spoken at court, as is the Chinese: two presidents, one Tartar and the other Chinese, head each court. The sovereign, and all the public acts emanating from these first tribunals, and from the supreme council of the Emperor, stand in each other's tongues.

However, this language, although it is not easy to compare it to the fact that the Chinese language, which is the dominant throughout the Empire, runs the risk of being completely abolished, without the precautions taken by the Tartars after the conquest of the China.

Jealous of preserving their language, which they put far above that of the Chinese, they saw clearly that it would imperceptibly impoverish itself, and that even it would lose it altogether, rather by the forgetfulness of the terms, than by the mixture of the Chinese language with theirs, because these two languages can not be allied together. The old Tartars were dying little by little to China, and their children were more easily acquainted with the language of the conquered country than that of their fathers, because the mothers and domestics were nearly all Chinese.

To overcome this inconvenience, the first Emperor Chun chi, who reigned only seventeen years ago, began to translate the classical books of China, and to make word dictionnaries, arrange the alphabetical order selectively; and the characters were Chinese, and the Chinese language could not render the words or the words of the Tartar language; this work was rather useless.

It is for this reason that the Emperor Cang, from the beginning of his reign, erected a tribunal of all that was at Peking, of more skilful people in the two Tartar and Chinese languages. He made some work on the version of history and clasic books that were not completed: the others to the traditions of the pieces of eloquence: & the greatest number to compose a treasure of the Tartar language.

This work was executed with extraordinary diligence. If he ventured some doubt, they asked the old men of This work was executed with extraordinary diligence. If he ventured some doubt, the old men of the eight Tartar banners were questioned: Tartars: & If he thinks it is necessary for a greater search, we should consult those who newly arrived from the country. Rewards were offered to those who would destroy some old words, some old expressions appropriate to be placed in the treasure. It was afterwards determined to learn from those who had forgotten them, or rather who had never known them.
 
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