Tartarian Fortresses? Jongs aka Dzongs in Lhasa, Tibet: Gyantse, Phari, Chitishio, etc

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
3,211
Reactions
10,710
The below two French maps are circa 1714. They clearly demonstrate former Tartarian control and dominion over the region known today as Lhasa, Tibet. For me these maps signify, that some time prior to 1714, Tartary had enough power to have its name placed over these territories. And the power of Tartary was known all the way in Europe.

1677716778
Thanks to @jd755, who pointed out the architecture of the Dalai Lama's Potala Temple, we can take a closer look at some of the other architectural wonders located within the same region.

Before we do that, let us establish, that no European "colonizers", allegedly, visited the area in the numbers capable of building the structures presented below.
  • These historic photographs show the first entry by Western forces into the mysterious forbidden city of Lhasa, the capital of Tibet, in August 1904.
16788

Source

Phari Jong
To be honest, I did not get too surprised after running into the below 1904 photograph depicting a Star Fortress (at least it looks like a star one to me) located in Tibet, for we already have one here. This Phari had to change its name for whatever reason and today is being called Pagri.

16779

As you can see, according to Wikipedia, the place was a dump in 1811. Thomas Manning, the first Englishman to reach Lhasa, visited Pagri from 21 September until 5 November 1811 and had this to say about his room in the town:
  • Dirt, dirt, grease, smoke. Misery, but good mutton.
Pagri was of some military importance in the early 20th century when it was occupied by the British Tibet Expedition under Francis Younghusband in 1904. The Pagri Fortress (Dzong) was located here and was important for the government as it stood between Tibet and Bhutan. Pagri was a staging area en route to Gyantse and ultimately Lhasa.

1911 Encyclopedia Britannica:
  • Phari is of considerable military importance, and is defended by a large fort or Jong, which was occupied by the British expedition of 1904. Phari Jong is supposed to have been built about 1500 A.D., and was enlarged or rebuilt in 1792, under Chinese advice, as a defense against the British. It has the appearance of a medieval castle, and seems to have been built in imitation of the European style.
KD: As we can see, even in 1774 they did not appear to know who built the Fortress.

Gyantse Jong: 1900-1901
Some 50 miles south-east of this town, in the valley of the Nian-chu, stands one of the oldest towns of Tibet, Gyantse, advantageously situated for trade with India. Carpets and cloth are made in this spot, widely renowned for its immense suburban (temple), which is five stories high, and has numbers of rooms containing numerous statues of Buddha, some of them very old.

16782

Source
The formidable fortress of the Gyantse Jong with the British and Indian camp in the foreground. 'The Fusiliers thought that, in the hands of European troops it would be impregnable. 'But the Tibetans were poorly armed and led by officers who were in awe of the British. 'The artillery opened up a breach in the walls which was stormed on 6th July 1904.

16787

Source

Gyantse Jong: 1904
The image was taken the morning after the capture of the fortress (or jong). A breach was eventually made in the walls by the mountain artillery and then a force of Gurkhas and men from the Royal Fusiliers stormed the fort after a short but bitter fight. During that action Lieutenant John Grant of the 8th Gurkhas won a Victoria Cross (VC).


One of 157 photographs taken by Major MacCarthy Reagh Emmet Ray in Tibet, showing views, groups, artillery in action, camp at Gyantse and portraits, 1904.

16781

Source

Chitishio Jong
Chitishio is a dzong in Tibet. The site is in ruins; it was a Buddhist monastery. Take a look at the Wikipedia page devoted to this Star Fort. Do you think there is something missing in there?

Chitishio Dzong, 1939
16784


Shigatse Jong
Shigatse Dzong was originally built by Karma Phuntsok Namgyal (1611–1621), the second in the line of the Nyak family who ruled Tibet from 1565–1642, after which the capital was moved to Lhasa. Shigtse Dzong’s historic importance was accentuated by the fact that the Mongol ruler Gusri Khan installed the Fifth Dalai Lama as the supreme ruler of Tibet, which then covered territory from Tachienlu in the east up to the Ladakh border in the west in the 17th century. In later years, the fort became the residence of the governor of Tsang. The modern city of Shigatse has developed around the base of the Dzong.

Shigatse fortress or Samdrubtse Dzong, 1938
16786

Source
KD: Anyways, we have lots of these Jong/Dzong structures, and I barely scratched the surface here. All of these structures have a very suspicions origin. They were not built by the European colonizers. If they were built around 1,500 AD, as some of the Wikipedia articles claim, than by who? Individuals similar to the ones below, Or by someone else?
From the maps above, and from this thread we know, that these structures are located on the Tartarian territory. But according to our anti-historians, the coutry of Tartary has never existed.

So, who built these forts and 13 story buildings in Tebet circa 1,500 AD, or even earlier?
 

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
408
Reactions
2,017
heres my scenario
  • big catastrophe in 1700, leading to the destruction of this Tartarian area, and the creation of the tibetan mountains and stone desert areas
  • some survivors building lone monasteries and fortresses
  • without focus on written records, myths replace facts regarding their history
  • Later imperialistic forces arrive, taking everything over because Tibetans/Asians believe the white races are the original gods, and surrender willingly. The imperialists find this extremely embarrassing and invent stories of fights.
This scenario is fully supported by the old maps, which never show anything resembling Tibet. The building style is in line with cultural devolution following a catastrophic event.
 
Last edited:

whitewave

Well-known member
Messages
963
Reactions
2,812
Something happened to change the area and the people in it. It's hard to believe that Tartarians had such a large territory and were considered the center of the old world. Everything I've read about them from any source all depict Tartarians as very primitive peoples with no real culture (as we know and define it). They rode horses, lived in tents/yurts, drank themselves literally to death and considered it an honor of some sort to die from alcohol poisoning at their celebrations, ate with their fingers while sitting on the ground, were nomadic, war-like, bought their wives like chattel, were mainly of the Islamic religion (begun in A.D. 7th century), fiercely loyal to their Cham but all others with whom they dealt could be treacherously dealt with, etc. They don't sound like master builders or civilization builders. Unless they are the survivors of some ancient cataclysm and only began to organize themselves into some form of "tribe" around the 12th century when we begin to have a history of them. The master civilization builders may have been an entirely different people, something happened, and nomads just moved in and helped themselves to all the goodies left behind.
 

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
408
Reactions
2,017
Isn't it strange how the people who built the original culture disappeared worldwide, and were replaced with primitive people like in Tibet, and when the Europeans moved in everywhere, the 'natives' thought their ancient leaders had come back?

Somehow as if there was a sudden mass exodus of a certain culture/race a couple of hundred years ago, like betwen 1300 and 1700.
 
Last edited:

jd755

Well-known member
Messages
199
Reactions
401
I feel Tartary the country never did exist. Neither did the Tartarian Empire. Save for the problem the 'cult of money' had with hiding areas of the world where the cult was not established from its subjects in 'the known countries'.
This is why it appears to disappear gradually and then totally using the maps and their assumed dates. All drawn within areas of money cult control note. This also, to me, explains why there are no documents, no coins, no governmental system, no records of land claims, ownership of anything being an impossibility under the rules of the money cult and totally alien to those who lived in 'tartary'.

The monumental structures and seemingly impossible feats of engineering/construction/land changes are too big too numerous to hide so instead they get an 'illusory timeline', probably illusory calendar system, laid upon them policed by money cult gatekeepers.
The only thing that makes any sense to me for the massive structures across the plane is money didn't exist in the world that did the building. Some way of living that is all but alien to our indoctrinated money cult comprehension was in place but in some like for instance those of us here and at many of the sources we find that indoctrination is failing and we are remembering.
 

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
408
Reactions
2,017
I feel Tartary the country never did exist. Neither did the Tartarian Empire. Save for the problem the 'cult of money' had with hiding areas of the world where the cult was not established from its subjects in 'the known countries'.
This is why it appears to disappear gradually and then totally using the maps and their assumed dates. All drawn within areas of money cult control note. This also, to me, explains why there are no documents, no coins, no governmental system, no records of land claims, ownership of anything being an impossibility under the rules of the money cult and totally alien to those who lived in 'tartary'.

The monumental structures and seemingly impossible feats of engineering/construction/land changes are too big too numerous to hide so instead they get an 'illusory timeline', probably illusory calendar system, laid upon them policed by money cult gatekeepers.
The only thing that makes any sense to me for the massive structures across the plane is money didn't exist in the world that did the building. Some way of living that is all but alien to our indoctrinated money cult comprehension was in place but in some like for instance those of us here and at many of the sources we find that indoctrination is failing and we are remembering.
I agree, if there was money it was somehow used in a way as to increase wealth and not reduce it over time. Only a society living in abundance can create such structures. If there was some form of basically free energy, the entire structure of society had to be different.
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
582
Reactions
2,266
I do think they were cities and fortresses of some great kingdom pre any Tartarian societies, they could be the people who came after the major disaster happened, that partially destroyed the region.

Something major happened in Tibet, the Mustang Caves look to me to be the remains of a great covered city, it's been covered by ash or mud, looks like volcanic tuff. Anyway there are thousands of "sky caves" here along with some free standing buildings, Temples and other ruins, people are still living in the region and it is restricted and the site is currently listed as a UNESCO tentative site since 1996.
Mustang region Tibet
Much of the history of Mustang is about legends rather than documented facts. However, it is believed that Mustang or the Kingdom of Lo was once a part of Ngari area of Tibet and a loose collection of feudal estates.[14] Though the people of Mustang live within the geographic boundaries of Nepal, their history is also tied to Tibetan religion and culture, geography, and politics.[3] It was often closely linked to adjoining kingdoms of Western Tibet and, during other periods of history, politically linked to Lhasa, the capital of Central Tibet.[19] Lo was incorporated into the Tibetan Empire by Songtsen Gampo, the most famous Tibetan king.[14]

Dump a few gozillion tons of ash and mud over any of the Temples complexes in all the posts above and here's what you get.

168341683516836168371683816839168401684116842168431684416845
 
Last edited:

jd755

Well-known member
Messages
199
Reactions
401
Here's an example of what I was saying. From here Lamaism - Watson's Biblical & Theological Dictionary - Bible Dictionary
Originally in this; Full text of "The modern traveller"

The principal idol in the temples of Tibet, or Thibet, is Muha-Moonee, the Booddhu of Bengal, who is worshipped under these and various other epithets, throughout the great extent of Tartary, and among all nations to the eastward of the Brumhapootru.

Also this part where the author is talking about Thibet (Tibet as we are told it to be)
The whole country, like Italy, abounds with priests; and they entirely subsist on the rich presents sent them from the utmost extent of Tartary, from the empire of the great mogul, and from almost all parts of the Indies.

And this from the thoroughly enjoyable book I have been reading.
I was not a little surprised to discover, by their conversation, how accurate an idea they had acquired of the position of different countries, though maps and charts are totally unknown among them. Of China (or Geanna) their own travels had taught them the situation ; and they pointed out to mc, not only the relative bearings of the countries surrounding them, as China on the east; Siberia on the north ; Turkestan, Cashmcer, Almora,on the west;Nipal;, Bootan, Assam, to the south, and Bengal beyond these ; but also of England, and of Russia, with almost equal truth.
 
Last edited:

AnotherLife

New member
Messages
2
Reactions
5
Isn't it strange how the people who built the original culture disappeared worldwide, and were replaced with primitive people like in Tibet, and when the Europeans moved in everywhere, the 'natives' thought their ancient leaders had come back?

Somehow as if there was a sudden mass exodus of a certain culture/race a couple of hundred years ago, like between 1300 and 1700.
That does seem to be the case when you dig deep enough into any native (and I use the following term very lightly) "mythology". The blue eyed/white/bird/fish/dragonlizard people came with their handbags, pinecones and watches, taught the people many useful things, built many beautiful things and then said "y'all be good to each other and we'll be back to check on you" then bounced. Some how the Europeans either didn't get the message or, according to the Hopi, lost their tablet and totally forgot the rules.
I'm not sure where Tartary fits in to all of this, but it seems like the disappearance of Tartaria coincides with the colonization and Iconoclasm of nations and peoples all over the world.
 

tupperaware

Well-known member
Messages
144
Reactions
361
H
heres my scenario
  • big catastrophe in 1700, leading to the destruction of this Tartarian area, and the creation of the tibetan mountains and stone desert areas
  • some survivors building lone monasteries and fortresses
  • without focus on written records, myths replace facts regarding their history
  • Later imperialistic forces arrive, taking everything over because Tibetans/Asians believe the white races are the original gods, and surrender willingly. The imperialists find this extremely embarrassing and invent stories of fights.
This scenario is fully supported by the old maps, which never show anything resembling Tibet. The building style is in line with cultural devolution following a catastrophic event.
Here is a website claiming asteroids and meteors created the Earth's landscaping and not plate tectonics.

Himalayan mountains created by asteroid impact. Himalayan Impact

I think there is a good chance the impact created the mountains but millions of years ago. Smaller impacts or earthquakes could could have wiped out a few cultures more recently.
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
3,211
Reactions
10,710
Personally, I have zero faith in any comets and asteroids. Primarily due to the convenience of the theory, and it’s time frame.

Surprisingly, none of this exists in our contemporary history. The only one would be the 1908 Tunguska event, but it has no evidence of any heavenly body. Nothing but narrative compliant claims.

From my perspective this comet/asteroid claim is meant to calm down the populace. The time frame with 3 and 6 zeros was created for the same purpose.
 

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
408
Reactions
2,017
H

Here is a website claiming asteroids and meteors created the Earth's landscaping and not plate tectonics.

Himalayan mountains created by asteroid impact. Himalayan Impact

I think there is a good chance the impact created the mountains but millions of years ago. Smaller impacts or earthquakes could could have wiped out a few cultures more recently.
Whatever happened, happened after 1700, according to all cartographic and cultural evidence. Something massive happened there, and changed the landscape in the way depicted on the above website. But a big force doesn't need to be an asteroid.
 

tupperaware

Well-known member
Messages
144
Reactions
361
Personally, I have zero faith in any comets and asteroids. Primarily due to the convenience of the theory, and it’s time frame.

Surprisingly, none of this exists in our contemporary history. The only one would be the 1908 Tunguska event, but it has no evidence of any heavenly body. Nothing but narrative compliant claims.

From my perspective this comet/asteroid claim is meant to calm down the populace. The time frame with 3 and 6 zeros was created for the same purpose.
Any recent mega disasters - last 500 years - are not in our history.
Whatever happened, happened after 1700, according to all cartographic and cultural evidence. Something massive happened there, and changed the landscape in the way depicted on the above website. But a big force doesn't need to be an asteroid.
Could be just very rapid and violent mountain uplifting. Mountain Ranges Rise Dramatically Faster Than Expected Much quicker than experts had thought. Of course it probably does not take place at a uniform speed. Maybe every 3 million years the Himalayas rise 5,000 feet in a couple of years. Maybe that happened 400 years ago or so.
 

tupperaware

Well-known member
Messages
144
Reactions
361
Krakatoa 1883, just a major but not mega disaster is in our history. - with plenty of records. What's your theory on disasters this big or larger that are somehow prevented from entering oral or written history? Personally, I believe in the possibility of an infinitely powerful being that can cleave our world in two and put it back together with nobody noticing or just turn water into wine. So practically nothing will be impossible for me to digest.
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
3,211
Reactions
10,710
What's your theory on disasters this big or larger that are somehow prevented from entering oral or written history?
This has been answered multiple times, and is well beyond the scope of this thread. The answer would also require me to recite hundreds of threads present on this forum, for my answer would consist of the totality of circumstances. With all due respect, familiarize yourself with the already published, and ask questions within those threads. You can start with one of the below if you wish:
Questions are simple in there:
  • why these recorded as fires in history?
  • how Seattle sustained this building rate?
  • how they built Saint Petersburg so fast?
If you choose to answer the above, please do so within the respective threads.
 

tupperaware

Well-known member
Messages
144
Reactions
361
KD:
"So, who built these forts and 13 story buildings in Tebet circa 1,500 AD, or even earlier?"

My guess is a hyper advanced race managing to hide under the historical record somewhere around Lake Baikal in Russia. They get things done architecturally speaking by leveraging their great management of local populations and nearby recruits and technical skills. When their projects are complete they ensure the historical records are very nearly wiped that might reveal what they were up to. Sometimes the "wipe" is not 100% but still enough to throw nearly everybody off the trail. They like to play "Civilization" Civilization® VI – The Official Site because it takes monster skills to do it well and anonymously. They may be facing stiff competition in that intergalactic game. Occasionally, their finesse must give way to a heavy hand and they call in pinpoint cataclysms where the boundaries of destruction are relatively exact. The boundary could be the size of the Sahara or the size of a 1 mile long stretch of a Roman aqueduct in France. Their "typical" agents in the field are very capable humanoids and can learn local customs and languages very quickly including Tibetan.
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
3,211
Reactions
10,710
That "Society X" would not need to be any more advanced than us today. It's possible that they could have gone in a slightly different direction, but it's irrelevant here. Also they were not hiding, they were all over the world.

Picture this on the example of us today. Something drastic happens, entire continents start looking differently (what is a separate story). We are pushed into the "stone age". 5% of the population survives. No more food stores, or police to keep honest people honest. Ruins of the previous civilization survive, but there is no civilization any longer. There are some fully intact buildings, like the ones in Tibet.

1688316884

Slowly people merge into groups for survival. Some have former city ruins to enjoy, and some have nothing. The Dark ages ensue. Meanwhile... the ELITE climbs out of their survival bunkers, and starts to regain control over this world, and the remaining population. They whoop out their scientists they chose to survive the event. We move into the Renaissance era.

Then we invent the antiquity with some Ancient Barcelonians (Greeks) who were later replaced by some Ancient Londonians (Romans). We claim that Barcelonians, and Londonians were so advanced, that they were able to build some crazy things, but then the world stalled and got stupid. With all the historical bases covered, the next stage is up.

The World popultion recovers, and starts to grow.

16885

The Industrial Revolution is introduced. In 50 years, thousands of years of former achievements are injected into the world. Thousands more are still being kept secret (we could call them UFO's etc).

... something like that. I do not want to write an article here, it will come later. The bottom line, there is no need for some "Atlantis" to hide in Tibet. Those Lhasa buildings were built by the same society which built Coliseum, or Parthenon.
 

jd755

Well-known member
Messages
199
Reactions
401
A couple of really old and old engravings of Potala Palace uncovered during the search for images of the people of tartary, the region.


Château de Putala [The Potala Palace] 1749
16975



Lassa-Lamassery of Potala in the Seventeenth Century c1885
16976



And a colour one
16979
 
Last edited:

whitewave

Well-known member
Messages
963
Reactions
2,812
Seeing so many ancient sites on mountaintops makes me wonder how barbaric things were in the past to make hauling gigantic stones up a mountain to build a fortress worth it.
 

Similar threads


Top