Photo Needed: Liberty Island prior to 1885, without the Statue of Liberty

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
4,476
Reactions
18,350
On June 17, 1885, the French steamer Isère, arrived in New York with the crates holding the disassembled Statue of Liberty on board. New Yorkers displayed their new-found enthusiasm for the statue. Two hundred thousand people lined the docks and hundreds of boats put to sea to welcome the ship.

Liberty Island
Liberty Island is a federally owned island in Upper New York Bay in the United States. Its most notable feature is Statue of Liberty (Liberty Enlightening the World). The island is an exclave of the New York City borough of Manhattan, surrounded by the waters of Jersey City, New Jersey.

Liberty_Island.jpg

Liberty island was known under various names.
  • Oyster Island: at the time of European colonization of the Hudson River estuary in the mid-17th century, much of the west side of Upper New York Bay contained large tidal flats which hosted vast oyster beds, a major source of food for the Lenape native people who lived there at the time. Several islands were not completely submerged at high tide. Three of them (later known as Bedloe's/Love/Liberty, Ellis, and Black Tom) were given the name Oyster Islands (oester eilanden) by the Dutch settlers of New Netherland, the first European colony in the Mid-Atlantic states. The oyster beds would remain a major source of food for nearly three centuries. Landfilling, started by the 1870s, particularly by the Lehigh Valley Railroad and Central Railroad of New Jersey, eventually obliterated the beds, engulfed one island and brought the shoreline much closer to the others.
  • Bedloe's Island: in 1753, the island is described in an advertisement (in which "Bedlow's" had become "Bedloe's", along with an alternate name of "Love Island") as being available for rental.
    • To be Let. Bedloe's Island, alias Love Island, together with the dwelling-house and lighthouse being finely situated for a tavern, where all kinds of garden stuff, poultry, etc., may be easily raised for the shipping outward bound, and from where any quantity of pickled oysters may be transported ; it abounds with English rabbits."
  • Liberty Island: has this name after an act of the United States Congress in 1956
kd_separator.jpg

KD: I wanted to see what this Liberty Island looked like prior to the alleged erection of the Statue of Liberty. The Statue was brought from France in June of 1885. As we all know, there were hundreds of thousands of photographs made prior to this date. Yet, I miserably failed to find a single photograph of the island preceding this date.

Could use some assistance, if you have time... do we have anything prior to this?

statueoflibertybaseunderconstruction.jpg

Additionally, where did Brown's Island go?

616x510.jpg

Source
 

milhaus

Well-known member
Messages
201
Reactions
837
This is all I could find so far. Might have luck searching "Fort Wood"

22134

Fort Wood on Bedloe's Island, now the base of the Statue of Liberty, and ships in New York Bay, 1860
Fort Wood on Bedloe's Island, now the base of the Statue of Liberty, and ships in New York Bay, 1860

22137

A rare photo of Fort Wood on Bedloe’s Island (Now Liberty Island) Here Union artillery men are manning the battery guns during the Civil War.

NPS Historical Handbook: Statue of Liberty

22138

STATUE OF LIBERTY: PEDESTAL. The unfinished pedestal, built on the foundation of an abandoned fort on Bedloe Island in New York Harbor, 1883.
0125166 - STATUE OF LIBERTY: PEDESTAL. The unfinished pedestal, built on the foundation of an abandoned fort on Bedloe Island in New York Harbor, 1883.

Edit: no watermark
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
4,476
Reactions
18,350
Thank you very much. That’s more than I found, but I’m looking for the spot where the statue will stand. That area where they are building the pedestal on your photo, only without the pedestal.
 

milhaus

Well-known member
Messages
201
Reactions
837
Thank you very much. That’s more than I found, but I’m looking for the spot where the statue will stand. That area where they are building the pedestal on your photo, only without the pedestal.
Yeah, understood. I will keep looking but keep in mind I am also still looking for a photograph of the US Govt in session prior to 1865. :LOL:

Edit: Fort Wood was a star-shaped fortification on Bedloe's Island (now Liberty Island). The 30-gun fort was constructed between 1807 and 1811. Since 1823, it had rarely been used, though during the Civil War, it had served as a recruiting station. The fortifications of the structure were in the shape of an eleven-point star. It was named in honor of Eleazer Derby Wood, who died in the War of 1812. By the time it was chosen for the statue, the base was disused and its walls were used as the distinctive base for the Statue of Liberty given by France for the 1886 centenary celebrations.
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
4,476
Reactions
18,350
I just find it hard to comprehend that we do not have a single area photograph of this island without the Statue of Liberty. It was historically the most populated area. Photography existed for over 50 years by 1885.

It's interesting how they do it. Below is:
  • A plan of Bedloe's Island circa 1772 made in 1843 by the U.S. Engineer Department. A hospital, "dwelling house," and what seems to be a fenced garden is shown in the plan.
  • KD: Why were they drawing plans 71 years later? Where is the plan of 1772 made in 1772?
colonialplan.jpg

Source
The next image is titled:
  • Statue Of Liberty Pedestal Sits Atop The Remains Of Fort Wood.
  • They should have called it Fort Brick.
08-08 Statue Of Liberty Pedestal Sits Atop The Remains Of Fort Wood.jpg

Source
The illustration below is from from 06.06.1885 Harper's Weekly. Is this a rooftop sticking out?

HARPERS_WEEKLY-NewYork_6_June_1885.jpg


kd_separator.jpg

Really want to find out what they had on the island before. The entire area was insane with fortifications:
Things are suspicious, imo. We have Fort Gansevoort described like this.
  • Location: Manhattan (Meat-Packing District). Also called the White Fort, this forgotten redoubt once flanked the western waterfront, built at the same time as the harbor forts. It was named for General Peter Gansevoort (the grandfather of Herman Melville) and stood here until the 1850s. Nothing remains of this fort today but its name, found on the street which cuts through that area - Gansevoort Street.
  • It was on the site of a previous weapons development center, where George Bomford developed the first columbiad cannon.
  • The fort was completed in 1812.
  • It was demolished in either 1849 or 1854 (references vary).
Compare two images. What happened there to the windows?
1830
31 December 1829
According to the Wikipedia
Fort_Gansevoort1.jpg


1820?
410px-Fort_Gansevoort_2.jpg

fort_Gansevoort.jpg

Bringing this Gansevoort, because it is in the same proximity. Built in 1812, buried in 1820, and dug out by 1830?

Fort Wood was in the area as well. Clearly was a humongous brick structure. Where is it? Under the Statue?

Inside Fort Wood
InsideFtWood.jpg

Source
By the way, here is our Frédéric Auguste Bartholdi, a French sculptor who is best known for designing Liberty Enlightening the World.

398px-frederic_auguste_bartholdi_crop.jpg

What else did he accomplish? This 72 foot lion. Some crazy things they did in 1880s. Too much money, or too many things to indoctrinate into the New "Enligtened" World Order?

It was finished in 1880 and is entirely made of red sandstone. The blocks it is made from were individually sculpted then moved under Belfort castle to be assembled. The colossal work is 72 feet long and 36 feethigh and dominates the local landscape.

This Statue of Liberty is a weird thing. Allegedly Bartholdi's original intentions were to place it in Egypt, but with no success.
original-design-for-egypt.jpg
 

whitewave

Well-known member
Messages
1,570
Reactions
5,207
It's a little disingenuous and misleading of the Smithsonian to say that the statue of liberty was originally a muslim woman since "Islam has been recognized as the state religion since 1980 (not 1880)." (wiki) In fact, despite the deceptive title, Smithsonians' article actually said, "the statue itself was originally intended to represent a female Egyptian peasant as a Colossus of Rhodes for the Industrial Age." And since Islam can not possibly represent liberty for anyone (the irony of a muslim woman representing liberty!) what was the original purpose, especially of wanting it placed in Egypt? Was America the second choice for France's gift? Did they originally intend for Egyptians to have it? And why? And the face is very mannish.

Also, you asked what became of Browne's Island. It's still shown on the map you posted (west of N.Y.) north of Kennedy's island and Oyster Island.
Did we build the star fort or was it already there? Also, you posted that liberty island was once known as oyster island so is that the same as Browne's island? Man, I really know nothing about that place. :)
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
4,476
Reactions
18,350
We do not have a single picture of this specific island from the distance without the statue.

Not sure if we have any photographs of the statue getting assembled. Allegedly it took them 4 months to put it together. Are there any 1880s assembly photos?

Entertaining an idea that it was already there.
 

Silent Bob

Active member
Messages
33
Reactions
142
I think you're on to something thinking that it was already there, fits in with all the other old buildings/monuments which are claimed to be only recently constructed. We always get the same type of fishy story to explain how these things were built without any photo's of construction. It seems the most natural thing in the world to take pics before, during and after construction, why wouldn't they? When you read about the difficulties they supposedly had raising the money to build the pedestal then surely they would have proudly photographed it once complete and ready to accept the statue, which had to be stored for a year while they finished building the pedestal. As usual the narrative really doesn't make sense.

The only assembly pics of the statue I've seen are the wood and plaster models they made first, easy to knock up to support a fake narrative I suppose.

You also got me thinking about something else when you ask earlier about Brown island. I can't remember if there is a thread on here about Black Tom island, but I'll mention it here as I do feel there is a connection to the statue of liberty. The first odd thing is that hardly anyone has heard of this place or what happened there. In 1916 German spies carried out what is claimed to be 'one of the worst terrorist attacks in American history'.

https://www.nypl.org/blog/2015/07/30/black-tom-island-explosion

If you have never heard of it you're not alone. Just this week I spoke to an old friend who I view as a 'proper' historian. His father taught history and was one of those rare good teachers that tells you about the stuff which wasn't part of the official story and my friend is the same, never accepts the official story without independant investigation. I first asked him about Tartaria, he didn't bat an eyelid and told me he had indeed heard of them and described how he felt they belonged to a larger empire included the likes of Genhis Khan and the Hungarian (Magyar) empire amongst others. He is the first person I have spoken to who has even heard of Tartaria. He is also very knowlegable about WWI so I asked him what he thought the main reason for America getting involved was. He responded with the Lusitania as I expected him to, so I asked if he ever heard of Black Tom island - total surprise, never heard of it. I find this astonishing, that such an event could happen without a genuine history buff like my friend knowing all about it.

The link to the statue of liberty is that the explosions damaged the statue arm, no one has been able to visit the torch since 1916. Now look at the official history of the statue below, all nicely laid out in date order - notice the lack of any mention of the black tom explosion and damage to the statue in 1916. This seems to be a very thourough chronology and yet all we have for 1916 is 'first time illuminated'? They do mention the bomb in 1980 (hadn't heard of that before either!) but no mention of such a significant event in 1916, very odd! It does mention that the torch was replaced in 1984, took them 68 years to get around to fixing that!

Liberty Island Chronology - Statue Of Liberty National Monument (U.S. National Park Service)

Here are some old maps showing Black Tom Island, it seems to be part of the mainland today - not sure what happened there.

Sanitary_&_Topographical_Map_of_Hudson_County,_N.J.PNG


Black Tom Map, Crop_0.jpg


Not sure what this means, just has me intrigued that such a massive event is virtually unkown of today. I would have thought that a terrorist attack which severely damaged the staute of liberty would be a key historic event, especially since this may be the main reason they finally got invoved in WWI, the Lusitania event happened over a year earlier. Ultimately I guess this shows us how fragile our true history really is!
 
OP
KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

Negotiator
Messages
4,476
Reactions
18,350
The presentation of the Statue of Liberty as a gift to the United States was celebrated in Paris on July 4, 1884. People filled the streets around the copper foundry’s workshop and yard, as well as climbing onto neighboring rooftops for a good view of the ceremony.

The statue had been fabricated and erected in Paris to ensure that every part was considered and the statue was complete before being shipped to the United States. The U.S. Minister to France accepted the statue on behalf of the President of the United States, Chester A. Arthur. The physical transfer of the statue, however, would not take place until the following June, when 214 crates containing the disassembled statue arrived in New York Harbor aboard a French naval transport, the Isère.

liberty_5.jpg

liberty_4.jpg

liberty_3.jpg
 

Timeshifter

Well-known member
Messages
509
Reactions
1,625
The presentation of the Statue of Liberty as a gift to the United States was celebrated in Paris on July 4, 1884. People filled the streets around the copper foundry’s workshop and yard, as well as climbing onto neighboring rooftops for a good view of the ceremony.

The statue had been fabricated and erected in Paris to ensure that every part was considered and the statue was complete before being shipped to the United States. The U.S. Minister to France accepted the statue on behalf of the President of the United States, Chester A. Arthur. The physical transfer of the statue, however, would not take place until the following June, when 214 crates containing the disassembled statue arrived in New York Harbor aboard a French naval transport, the Isère.

On each of the 3 images above @KorbenDallas , the face has a slighly different expression. Poor art? Differing interpretation? Or something else?
:unsure:
 

Starmonkey

Active member
Messages
131
Reactions
242
I think it was already there. The riff raff they shipped over didn't know any better. It's made of COPPER, like the roofs and such of antiquetech... PROBABLY their oh so stylish lighthouse
 

Top