Paintings: A Winter's Mystery

KorbenDallas

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I expect winter uniforms to be different from the summer ones, similar to what they had in WW1 and WW2. That aftermarket stuff they have on has nothing to do with uniforms.

Here are 1812 French soldiers in Russia. I don't know if they actually wore those, but this 1850s painting claims that they did.

french_Uniform_1812.jpg
 

alieniam

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I expect winter uniforms to be different from the summer ones, similar to what they had in WW1 and WW2. That aftermarket stuff they have on has nothing to do with uniforms.

Here are 1812 French soldiers in Russia. I don't know if they actually wore those, but this 1850s painting claims that they did.

Well, the popular history myth says that Napoleon soldiers were not prepared for the harsh Russian winters and this is why they eventually lost.
 

UnusualBean

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Honestly, those clothes look fine to me, at least practically speaking (I don't know anything about the fashion aspect). It doesn't take much to trap your body heat in, the real danger is when you get wet, you stop moving without getting inside some adequate shelter, or you run out of calories to produce heat.

Spoken as somebody who doesn't own any coats and it's below freezing outside right now :p
 

Magnus

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I expect winter uniforms to be different from the summer ones, similar to what they had in WW1 and WW2. That aftermarket stuff they have on has nothing to do with uniforms.

Here are 1812 French soldiers in Russia. I don't know if they actually wore those, but this 1850s painting claims that they did.

Did you notice there are no fires?
No gloves (bare hands)?
Tattered pants?
No wool socks, and no leathern boots, but just rags tied about feet?

Examine this photo a bit closer...
Did you really post it with the intentions of showing these clothes are *more? Appropriate than the ones on page 1???

Did you see any "left behinds" in the paintings on page 1?

Seriously confusing rebuttal post, KB

And can you elaborate on what you mean by aftermarket?? Aftermarket stuff?
 

Magnetic

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As an artist I did not resonate with renaissance paintings but I never really isolated my reasons. Well here they are 1) these paintings never showed sunsets or sun rises 2) they never show spring, fall or winter as we know them now 3) they never show the sun , moon or stars in their paintings and instead show a verdant landscape with a non-directional glow of the sky. It seemed fake to me due to its non relation to what observers see today. Here are some examples:


There's mud in this one with damaged structures but no sun, moon, stars or seasons.



There is a reason for this fact that the sun, moon, stars, seasons, sunsets and sun rises are not in these paintings: they were not seen at that time! The magnetic field was opposite of what we have today and the current flow instead of being directed from the North geographical pole was directed from the South geographical pole. This current flow made the sky glow and obscured the sun, and moon and the weather pattern was of a diffused light and a gentle heat about the entire earth. The reversal of the geo-magnetic field, not too long ago, allowed view of the sun, moon, stars and changed the weather to a colder earth which old buildings needed to have fireplaces put into them like at the St. Petersburg Palace.
 

lostwithtime

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My understanding is that we've been slowly coming out of an ice age over the last several thousand years. Planet Earth has been slowly warming back up getting back to it's normal climate. Perhaps it's really the last (mini?) ice age of the 14th to 15th centuries that we're currently coming out of? Prior to that it was warmer, and we're just now getting back to that? Anyway, interesting to ponder on.
My understanding is that we are at the tail end of an ice age.
 

dreamtime

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1575 Winter Landscape with Snowfall near Antwerp by Lucas van Valckenborch.​

Maybe relevant: Europe’s Little Ice Age: ‘All things which grew above the ground died and starved’

As an artist I did not resonate with renaissance paintings but I never really isolated my reasons. Well here they are 1) these paintings never showed sunsets or sun rises 2) they never show spring, fall or winter as we know them now 3) they never show the sun , moon or stars in their paintings and instead show a verdant landscape with a non-directional glow of the sky.
And in the rare cases of the sun visible, it's just a big glow:

serveimage.jpg

Looks like a lot of things in our world changed recently...
 
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whitewave

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@Magnetic, thanks for the artistic viewpoint. I never cared too much for renaissance paintings either-too busy (generally speaking). I, too, think we've had a pole flip in our somewhat recent history. Other than weather changing and the compass pointing to the South instead of North, I don't know that there would be too much different than now. Any weather changes would be sudden, I suspect, and we do seem to have evidence for rapid climate change. Those changes may have been due to volcanic eruptions, though, rather than poles flipping as there is plenty of evidence for large volcanic eruptions in the past.
 

Paracelsus

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Subtitle: "Depictions of winter do not arrive until the late 15th century"

I picked up on a very quick thought mentioned by LifeKreationz about winter. He was talking about how Conspiracy-R-Us did a great video on Waste Management and The Great Stink. Both guys talk about how these massive palaces had both no heating and no plumbing. So... where are the earliest pictures depicting winter?

Let's start at Wiki: Winter landscapes in Western art

Excellent, we have a starting date, too easy! We now know that it begins in the 15th century. And oh yeah, it also begins in the 15th and 16th centuries. Lol. Right off the bat, we're looking sketchy, like, first 3 sentences in.

Winter scenes were not painted because of religious reasons. Got it. Painters avoided landscapes for the reason. God hates landscapes. Got it.

1564. The year William Shakespeare is born and Michelangelo dies. Cool year. Ice age is interesting. Mini-reset before we get to the more current reset. Explains those layers.

So, if you take a look at the Wiki link posted at the top, they show about 50 paintings. 2 of them are from the 16th century, the other 48 or so are from the 1800s.

Now let's look at The Emergence of the Winter Landscape from some dumb website. Here it states:

So, let's be real. We're not talking about the 15th century at all, we're talking 16th, at best. And let's quickly end the moment with this article with this delight. You can read the rest yourself, if you dare:

Say what? That's enough of that. I'm getting dumber by the second here. I'm just gonna stop short here. Not sure if this might spurn any thoughts, but at worst I'll put together the winter painting collection below to simply enjoy. And seriously, there are no 15th century painting of winter and snow. It is 16th century, at best. Enjoy!

The Hunters in the Snow by Pieter Bruegel the Elder, 1565
View attachment 12601

Adoration of the Kings in the Snow by Pieter Bruegel the Elder, 1567
View attachment 12602

Winter Landscape with a Windmill by Hendrick Avercamp, c.1615
View attachment 12603

Winter Scene on a Frozen Canal by Hendrick Avercamp, 1620
View attachment 12606

The Castle of Muiden in Winter by Jan Abrahamsz Beerstraten, 1658
View attachment 12604

Dutch Snow Scene with Skaters by Jan Griffier, c.1695
View attachment 12600

And that sums up the 16th century. It was apparently only snowing in the Dutch towns and every other idiot was too busy painting different versions of 'bloody' Jesus.
Being born in the "Northern Latitude" I've always taken it for granted that there are distinctly different seasons, and long harsh winter's. I could imagine someone un-accustomed to this type of weather believing that they were experiencing the apocalypse. Winter and snow can freak people's shit out!
 

maxresde

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So I have not spent much time looking at old paintings, but I have suspected this same thing from a different angle.

I read some time back that chimneys were invented, again, in the 1500s. I remember saying to myself, 'and what in the world were people doing before that?'

If you look at old buildings they seem mostly to just have a hole in the roof. Of course, the indians had just a hole in the roof most of the time, but old buildings from rome, etc also seem to follow the hole in the roof line of thinking.

I had read also sometime back that these things called kachelofens, they have lots of different names, were also invented in the 1500s. These are sometimes called masonry ovens or stoves. They are supposed to be very energy efficient for keeping houses warm. According to what I read, the kachelofen was developed in response to government bounties to develop energy efficient home heating solutions at that time.

They are supposed to be kind of an outgrowth of the Roman hypocaust and the Chinese kang stove, which are basically like a raised floor with a fire underneath it that heated up the floor. I gather that at the time of the development of the kachelofen and the chimney/fire place that the older forms of providing heat must not have been up to demands of the time.
 

dreamtime

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Roman hypocaust and the Chinese kang stove, which are basically like a raised floor with a fire underneath it that heated up the floor.
It gets even better. The Roman hypocaust wasn't powered by wood and fire. I will prepare a thread for this topic to discuss in detail.

Here's the sooting that happened after a single test run to a surviving Roman villa when a Historian did the unthinkable: Put theory into practice.

hypocaust.png
 
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whitewave

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Maps of the old world seem to only indicate roughly Greenland and northward as being properly cold, which makes me wonder if maybe "winter" for most of the world was more like light jacket weather.
"In the travel notes of F. Arkhipov, participant in Dokhutorov's embassy to London during the civil war in 1645. England appears even during that time of upheaval as an idyllic land: 'In that English state... there is no winter, no matter how long you stay there-tis always summer. And all kinds of vegetables come to fruition twice a year. And in the winter time their gardens are all green, and there is never any snow.' " source
 

Magnetic

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Interesting find about the lack of winter in britain in 1645! To me this suggests that the magnetic field was opposite of what we have now. Paintings from that time of other media should show a vague glow in the sky with no moon, sun, sunsets, sun rises, or stars. So the big disaster did not happen well before 1645.
 

BrokenAgate

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I read some time back that chimneys were invented, again, in the 1500s. I remember saying to myself, 'and what in the world were people doing before that?'
Sitting around in houses full of smoke, waiting for someone to invent chimneys, I guess.
what's this enormous looking tower in the city?! looks so huge compared to the church towers?!
The Church of Our Lady of Perpetual Coughing
 
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