New York, Development or Apocalypse?

Timeshifter

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Apologies in advance for the speedy post,

Whilst conducting some academic research today on the real history of photography, I was reading 'Photography 1839 to 1937' from the Museum of Modern art

when I came across this image...

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Plate 80 UNKNOWN AMERICAN PHOTOGRAPHER: A scene in Shantytown, New York, 1880

Reproduced from The New York Daily Graphic, March 4, 1880, p. 38. The earliest direct reproduction of a photograph appearing in a daily newspaper.

It immediately struck me as odd, not the image, but the houses and rocks? Is it my imagination, or does this look like people surviving in copious amounts of rock and mud?

I have a google around to find the original photo and found a few differing copies of it, this one here was the highest resolution I could find.

Looking down the list of images, I came across this etching of a Shantytown from Dutch Hill, NYC

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Source

Again, this looks to me like there is mud and rock everywhere, like a scene from a disaster movie.

I have a limited knowledge of New York circa 1800s, but it seems obvious to me that there is plenty of mud and rock to go around here.

Waki says that the 1800's shanty towns were eventually destroyed to make way for central park waki link

I came across this PDF which has some opinion on The Shanty of Central Park local. Basically, the men with money bought out the people, for next to nothing

PDF

‘After blasting out rocky ridges with more gunpowder than was used at the Battle of Gettysburg, workers moved 3 million cubic yards of soil and planted more than 270,000 trees and shrubs. In the end, it cost more to build Central Park than it did to purchase Alaska, so why wasn’t there enough money to relocate the displaced families?’

My question, How much soil? Where did it all go? How did they move it?

After further searching, I came across this website, with more info.

Source

This article claims;

‘In this 1869 painting, artist Alessandro E. Mario portrays the transformation of New York from farmland to a city as an almost biblical pursuit. From an aerial vantage point, the viewer looks down at laborers chiselling rock with hand tools and riding horse-drawn carts’

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Maybe that’s how they moved all that soil… and transformed New York from farmland to a city as an almost biblical pursuit...

The city makes no sense to me, I admit I am not a builder, surveyor or architect, but who in their right mind would build/ work like this?

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Is this high rise below dug out?

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There are many more images that show similar stuff on the old google.

Maybe I am simply having an afternoon brain fart, but none of this makes any sense to me. On old paintings of new York, yes it looks Hilly, Yes it could have been blasted to make way for roads, but to me in many images it looks more like it has been destroyed in some cataclysm, rather than re-worked or re- landscaped...

Here is it moving into San Francisco post fire territory... 1882

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:unsure:

Thoughts?
 

KorbenDallas

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I thought this immediate below image was an interesting one. Pertains to 1905, I guess, but who knows...

Besides of the obvious 1905 "hightechness" my questions would pertain to the population numbers. How many citizens would a city requiring this type of a transportational solution have? Did they have that many people officially? Did they build it, or renovated?

Really?

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1900s, Demolition of the Croton Distributing Reservoir
The distributing reservoir at Fifth Avenue and 42nd Street, as it looked about 1894, by which time demolition talk was in the air. Six years later it was gone, to be replaced by the New York Public Library’s main branch.

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The Demolition of the Croton Distributing Reservoir, 5th Avenue Between 40th and 42nd Streets, circa 1900.

When the New Croton Aqueduct was completed in 1890, it made the 1842 Croton Distributing Reservoir at Bryant Park unnecessary. It was demolished between 1899 and 1901, to make room for the planned New York Public Library

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Source
Laborers look at the camera while working on a subway tunnel in Manhattan, c 1901-1931

Building, or digging out?

19022

Source
 

Plissken

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Some more Croton Aqueduct weirdness:


Croton Distributing Reservoir and yet another Crystal Palace that was built for yet another exhibition The Exhibition of the Industry of All Nations at the Croton Reservoir Park. Built in1853 only to burn down in1858.

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Same Crystal Palace with Latting Observatory, a wooden tower 315 feet built at the same time. The tallest structure in new york which burned down in 1856.
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And some photos that make you wonder, digging out or building up?

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More photos here.

Plissken 🐍
 
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Timeshifter

Timeshifter

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Building, or digging out?
Digging out is my guess... get this..

'The Beach tunnel was constructed in only 58 days, starting under Warren Street and Broadway, directly across from City Hall. The station was under the south sidewalk of Warren Street just west of the Broadway corner. The subway opened to the public on February 26, 1870. Gratings in the sidewalk on Warren Street indicate some vault or ventilation areas are down there today'

58 days to dig, line, fit out the tunnel and open, in th 1870s... yeh, right

For me it is just more evidence or discovery post cataclysm.

the-welcome-blog-tours-of-new-york-pneumatic-subway.jpeg

Also, whilst shanty towns are built ammid obvious chaos, this is being built underground?

Something is wrong here...
 

BStankman

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Dutch pirates bought this place for a song.
How did they know what was there, and the Indians not know what was right under their feet?

Did the Dutch build the star-fort to carry out the excavation in private? Or a base to later attack the CS of A.

castello-plan-of-new-amsterdam.jpgnew-york-in-1674-old-map__59952.1465353226.1280.1280.jpg

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Someone built a very nice prison.
Tombs. But no creativity with the name or the pattern of lies.


the-tombs.jpgtumblr_p7gkduxrKi1qgpvyjo1_1280.jpg
 
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jd755

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Digging out is my guess... get this..

'The Beach tunnel was constructed in only 58 days, starting under Warren Street and Broadway, directly across from City Hall. The station was under the south sidewalk of Warren Street just west of the Broadway corner. The subway opened to the public on February 26, 1870. Gratings in the sidewalk on Warren Street indicate some vault or ventilation areas are down there today'

58 days to dig, line, fit out the tunnel and open, in th 1870s... yeh, right

For me it is just more evidence or discovery post cataclysm.

View attachment 19077

Also, whilst shanty towns are built ammid obvious chaos, this is being built underground?

Something is wrong here...
Hyperloop pneumatic subway existed in the 19th century
 

mythstifieD

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I knew this link would come in handy! I have no idea the validity of it or where it's even sourced from. Could be completely from some fictional book for all I know, wouldbt surprise me because it all just sounds so insane. Yet.... In line... With our discoveries!

Nordic Heritage of New World Discovery: a Chronology by Gunnar Thompson

Relevant to this particular thread:

1626 Norse frontiersman Cornelius Sand negotiates the Dutch purchase of Manhattan from native Mohawks using Old Norse words that had become part of the Algonkian language.
Norse? Don't forget that the official narrative states that Russia started with Vikings, and we here consider Tartaria to be a big piece of the puzzle.

I read a FASCINATING Fomenko "short" that I promise to soon make a whole post about, that asserts that America was owned by Muscovit Tartaria up until exactly 1775! Im teasing you all I know, but it's so thrilling that I really need to do it justice in its own thread, just need to find a bit of time.

That said! Who was the ruler of Russia in 1492 when Columbus sailed the ocean blue?

Ivan III Vasilyevich (Russian: Иван III Васильевич; 22 January 1440, Moscow – 27 October 1505, Moscow), also known as Ivan the Great,[1][2] was a Grand Prince of Moscow and "Grand Prince of all Rus'". Sometimes referred to as the "gatherer of the Russian lands", he tripled the territory of his state, ended the dominance of the Mongols/Tatars over Russia by defeating the Golden Horde, renovated the Moscow Kremlin, and laid the foundations of the Russian state. He was one of the longest-reigning Russian rulers in history.
Ivan The Great who tripled Russia and... ENDED THE DOMINANCE OF THE TARTARS.

So play with me here.

Our Vikings/Western Russians (Not Tartars) knew about the new world. The Tartars have LONG colonized the whole damn place. The Vikings had a colony in Vinland as early as about 1000ad. The Vatican had a bishop there as early as 1121ad! This is FACT. This guy even left to go live with the Natives! Look it up, I'm not making this up! Crazy? Think of it! The Vatican knew of the "new world" over 300 years before Columbus. What the hell was stopping them from going over there?! It's been puzzling me hard.

Iberia/Spain remained conquered until exactly 1492 when the last Muslim owned lands were reclaimed. Then Spain goes nuts exploring "India" and the Pope prevents England from doing the same for one hundred years (until they can shake off the Pope and go Anglican, oh, and conveniently obliterate the Spanish Armada)

So what if what really happened was Ivan freed up the western lands from the Tartars but the Muscovit holdouts remained until 1775.

Devils advocate? Well, if the Tartars had subways, did the "Russians" have subways before Europe?
 

BrokenAgate

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A_Scene_in_Shantytown,_New_York_(1880)a.jpg27e61468737b3bcb5cc06c6b7ad73505e29ca39d-800x523.jpg

Pictures like this look more strange the longer I look at them. It's as if all this rock was extruded from the ground, demolishing some houses while lifting others right off the ground. Then they had to build stairs to get up there.

nypl.digitalcollections_1.jpg

Sidewalks need vaults??
 
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Timeshifter

Timeshifter

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Like many other places, a massive change in infrastructure and population growth from early - mid 1800s....
 

lostcause

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Hello, I think this belongs here. The world's oldest subway tunnel was built in 1844 beneath Atlantic Avenue in Brooklyn, when it was still an independent city. It was built in only 7 months. It was used only until 1861 when it was buried and forgotten. It was rediscovered in 1980 by Bob Diamond. See BHRA: Atlantic Avenue Tunnel .

But there is more to the story, according to a 1911 newspaper article. It had more than 20 secret entrances and it was used by smugglers, moonshiners, and river pirates. Very interesting.
 

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ISeenItFirst

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@BrokenAgate,
Some more shanty town images here.
Museum of the City of New York - Search Result

I wonder if they got the dynamite from the fire department.


Even the poor part of town had wireless.

I see wires in that pic. Telegraph? Is about the right time I think. I'm more interested in that tower in the rear right of your last photo. That thing is tall, with a very intersting design. Looks like a round tower with a square top. Could be a shot tower I suppose, but it doesn't look like ones I've seen.
 

wild heretic

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Laborers look at the camera while working on a subway tunnel in Manhattan, c 1901-1931

Building, or digging out?

At first I thought building, but looking at that photo, the "wooden" shell looks to go behind the rock. The guys there have a drill in front of them. So the only conclusion to make is that they are digging it out. I think the wooden posts (like the one leaning against the wall) are theirs, helping to support the shell.

I just wonder what the original purpose of the original tunnel was.

If I had to guess I wonder if the original tunnel was a mine, and that was their way of supporting the mine. I don't know much about mines, but I've never seen one with circular supports.

Looks like page 156 of the book in the link below shows circular mine supports.
Mine Openings: Stability and Support
 
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VonKitty

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After reading this thread I was inspired to search for old photos of Central Park.
Here’s a few I found interesting.

This is a woodcut which shows immigrants living in the area in the mid 1800s prior to the creation of the park. I think the terrain looks questionable. Unfortunately I haven’t had the time to look for more illustrations depicting this time frame.
(And as a side note, I believe some of the gilded mansions were “built” next to this neighborhood. That leads me to believe further proof of the gilded mansions being mud flood buildings and already in existence, because why would you build a mansion with views of a shanty town?)
84B2722A-C31C-46FC-94C1-BC53401BD678.jpeg


Then you have the creation of the park with the removal of all the dirt and rock as mentioned before, which results in a beautiful landscaped area.

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But then the park seems to revert back to a dirty, dusty mess during the Great Depression when people move back into the park and Hooverville is formed.

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D38D4833-6FEA-4C1E-B077-825903310B9E.jpeg
841CEB2F-7A81-4C90-8FE0-829BD52A4B77.jpeg



I realize the park spans nearly 800 acres, but I do wonder what happened to create all of this dirt and rubble. I looked for photos of the same location with those buildings in the background prior to the depression but had no luck in finding any.

And then you have a power pole in this pic ??

5DC62630-A7D8-4BDF-8270-AB3E7DCCEA56.jpeg


And then there was this photo which was interesting, though I couldn’t find a description for the building, it just popped up when I searched for Hooverville photos in Central Park.

0F785F73-0A9D-4A43-B373-E5526B213108.jpeg
 

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Ice Nine

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BrokenAgate

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We are told that people built houses like that, but who would put a house right on the edge of a cliff, with the fence nearly falling off? It's a big house, too, probably owned by wealthy people. They couldn't afford a better location for their home? Did anyone really think of raising their children on a pile of boulders at the edge of a steep cliff?
Post automatically merged:

I have to add that the men in this photo look completely out of place:

0F785F73-0A9D-4A43-B373-E5526B213108.jpeg

None of them live in this broken house; they are just here to inspect the damage.
 
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