Mud flood, dirt rain, and the story of the buried buildings

Silent Bob

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Was the current underground floor above ground in the picture? Did I miss something?
I didn't mention that part, sorry, I was focused on the fact that the church was in the background before it was even meant to have been built. The 1830-1840 pic of the house being 'just built' looked exactly the same as it does today, i.e. steps up to 'ground' floor with lower floor beneath ground. My suspicion is that this was the date the original house was refurbished to become habitable again, but any sinking or burying had already taken place before this date. I usually assume that any buried building has to be at least 200 years old (needs to predate 1812 at least) to be buried by whatever event took place. My theory is that buildings like this were originally built at ground level pre 1812 and were affected by the global event we are all discussing. At some stage after the event these partly buried buildings are refurbished to make them habitable and this is then announced as the date the building was actually built.
 

inquisitor

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By the way, the Slovene name Novo Mesto literally means 'new town'. Names like this are common all over Europe and tend to refer to villages and towns built on sites where older settlements were burned or otherwise destroyed.
Precisely. Apparently it was called Neustadt from around 1365 - so it's not exactly a new town, and it was changed from Rudolfswerth or Rudolfovo *back* to Novo Mesto after World War I. So there's probably a new town built over top of the 'new town', built over what? Before 1365, there is no information about what was there.
 

Florida Man

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what does the videos show, i dont want to play them, because my youtube recommended page will be flooded with videos in russian
I was in the same boat as far as screwing with recommended YouTube algorithm, my wife is not the biggest fan.. You can go into your profile though with the option of incognito mode and it won't "record" your watching history.
 

Verity

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I like this post. I am sorry it is in Russian but google translate should take care of it. I think it contributes to the subject at a slightly different angle.

АНТичные СНиПы и ГОСТы. Надо копать глубже!

I was blown away by Kamenets Podolskiy. Thank you everyone who posted. I grew up not far from it. Had no idea. I was truly blown away, though consider myself fairly familiar with the subject.
I particularly liked the Altare della Patria right at the end. It's a good illustration of how they would've looked. Mussolini knew where to dig.
I remember the time I saw the Pantheon in a 'Hubert Robert Ruins' painting with the Tiber (presumably) running below a series of steps and landings which blew my mind.

Porte de Ripetta.jpg

I just looked the ports origins up from the paintings title; "La Panthéon avec le port de Ripetta."
Robert was said to blend factual accuracy with imagination.
Hubert Robert (French, 1733 - 1808) (Getty Museum)

Port de Ripetta Porto di Ripetta - Wikipedia became Ponte Cavour. It is now an 11 minute walk from the original Pantheon (in Rome) to Ponte Cavour where the Tiber yet floweth oggi.
I don't think Piranesi/wiki got the memo that it was from Roberts imagination.
I've been looking in to this stuff for a while now but this is such an endlessly irritating lie/pain in the neck. Hubert Robert or whoever his work is truly attributed in reality wasn't imagining a single flipping thing.

PiranesiPantheonTiber.jpg
 

Casimir

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I was in the same boat as far as screwing with recommended YouTube algorithm, my wife is not the biggest fan.. You can go into your profile though with the option of incognito mode and it won't "record" your watching history.
PSA for links of any sort: With most browsers you can right click links and choose "Open In Incognito" mode where it doesn't remember your search history (or acts like it at least :) ) That way you don't have to mess with any global settings you're used to.
 

Beanieboo111

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I particularly liked the Altare della Patria right at the end. It's a good illustration of how they would've looked. Mussolini knew where to dig.
I remember the time I saw the Pantheon in a 'Hubert Robert Ruins' painting with the Tiber (presumably) running below a series of steps and landings which blew my mind.
View attachment 26439
I just looked the ports origins up from the paintings title; "La Panthéon avec le port de Ripetta."
Robert was said to blend factual accuracy with imagination.
Hubert Robert (French, 1733 - 1808) (Getty Museum)

Port de Ripetta Porto di Ripetta - Wikipedia became Ponte Cavour. It is now an 11 minute walk from the original Pantheon (in Rome) to Ponte Cavour where the Tiber yet floweth oggi.
I don't think Piranesi/wiki got the memo that it was from Roberts imagination.
I've been looking in to this stuff for a while now but this is such an endlessly irritating lie/pain in the neck. Hubert Robert or whoever his work is truly attributed in reality wasn't imagining a single flipping thing.
View attachment 26440
I agree with you wholeheartedly with regards to Piranesi’s and Hubert’s artwork having its basis in reality. Many works of Piranesi are so detailed they resemble a blueprint rather than a mere painting.

Here, for example.
Stock Photo - Map of Campus Martius 1762. 1000 Piranesi-10012

Many arguments exist out there supporting this point. There is no doubt in my mind that all the representatives so called school of “ruinism” (an official classification of this specific form of painting I believe) were in reality just landscapists.

I have been to Pantheon. At that time I had no suspicion of possible underground layers. The picture you have attached is truly mind blowing.

If one is to subscribe to a hypothesis that there was a cataclysm sometime in the early 19 th century, then the disappearance under piles of dirt of all the steps and landings reflected in the attached Hubert’s painting can be explained. It appears that to prove that Hubert and many other painters were not imagining anything but captured physical reality, one needs to do a little digging. I am convinced that with little effort all the evidence would be quickly unearthed so to speak. Unfortunately, keeping history buried and calling the works the above painters fantasies is far more convenient.
 

Verity

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I am convinced that with little effort all the evidence would be quickly unearthed so to speak. Unfortunately, keeping history buried and calling the works the above painters fantasies is far more convenient.
Another reason to distrust the 'fascists/Mussolini types' by modern progressives. We can try to keep politics out of history.. but it'd be futile.

In the fore-runner building (for want of another word) leading to the entrance of the Venaria Reale in Turin...

VREntrance.jpg

one goes downstairs first to be dazzled by 'rich historic details' of portraits.

The underground gallery portraits are lit by spot-lights from above, and laid out on false floors with mirrors, so the eye is drawn well away from deeply shadowed brick walls behind them.

VRGallery.jpg

These enthralling walls were so massively thick, I couldn't tell you, maybe a 4 meter staircase thick or more.

Occasionally there were windows which were tiny.

VRWindows.jpg VRWindowdepth.jpg VRStairwell.jpg
It would look similar to this in places I imagine, if dug out, at the flaring lower section. (This is a scale replica of a Russian building.)

Russian Foundations.jpg

T'would be neat if Salvini decided to dig the Venaria Reale out to show the world what lay beneath, just for laffs, and restore the hell out of it.
 
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Beanieboo111

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Another reason to distrust the 'fascists/Mussolini types' by modern progressives. We can try to keep politics out of history.. but it'd be futile.

In the fore-runner building (for want of another word) leading to the entrance of the Venaria Reale in Turin...
View attachment 26484
one goes downstairs first to be dazzled by 'rich historic details' of portraits.
The underground gallery portraits are lit by spot-lights from above, and laid out on false floors with mirrors, so the eye is drawn well away from deeply shadowed brick walls behind them.
View attachment 26485
These enthralling walls were so massively thick, I couldn't tell you, maybe a 4 meter staircase thick or more.
Occasionally there were windows which were tiny.
View attachment 26502 View attachment 26501 View attachment 26500
It would look similar to this in places I imagine, if dug out, at the flaring lower section. (This is a scale replica of a Russian building.)
View attachment 26486

T'would be neat if Salvini decided to dig the Venaria Reale out to show the world what lay beneath, just for laffs, and restore the hell out of it.
Incredible thickness of the walls. The structure of the openings suggests a function other than that of a window. Looks like a some high pressure relief with all the thick walls and all.

81C65A2B-28C6-47A4-8728-5105C783E137.jpeg

This structure from Piranesi’s plan of Rome, which looks like a draft copy, may indicate a place from where shops took off. Wild conjecture of course :)
 

UnusualBean

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This is probably nothing, but I just discovered an interesting expression in Japanese that made me think of this phenomenon.

"土砂降り (doshaburi)" is an expression that means "raining really hard", but it literally translates to "raining soil and sand". Unlike other quirky expressions like "raining cats and dogs", nobody seems to know exactly where "raining soil and sand" came from, but the assumed etymology is that it just sounds like "thud", which is "dosa" in Japanese. Still...
 

Silent Bob

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This is probably nothing, but I just discovered an interesting expression in Japanese that made me think of this phenomenon.

"土砂降り (doshaburi)" is an expression that means "raining really hard", but it literally translates to "raining soil and sand". Unlike other quirky expressions like "raining cats and dogs", nobody seems to know exactly where "raining soil and sand" came from, but the assumed etymology is that it just sounds like "thud", which is "dosa" in Japanese. Still...
This reminded me of of saying they have in Africa which I heard recently. I can't remember the exact saying but it translates to 'everything is temporary' and explains a general attitude that it is a waste of time building long lasting structures. Having seen the maps of the Sahara region before and after the desert appeared I can totally understand this attitude now!
 

anadentone

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its not a building (unless its under a ton of sand) but I found an article a while back about the Easter Island heads. It talked about how the heads actually had a body to them but the bodies were covered up by a land slide. Considering how tall the statues were, what sorta land slide could have covered them up on such a tiny island? I can get it if the statues were in the desert of some places like the grand canyon or the outback where the wind and time could bring dirt from other places onto it but surrounded by water and very little sand (to cover it) just sounds odd. A massive flood that covered it in water like places hit by Katrina could do that.Easter Island Bodies
 

Japod

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Incredible thickness of the walls. The structure of the openings suggests a function other than that of a window. Looks like a some high pressure relief with all the thick walls and all.


This structure from Piranesi’s plan of Rome, which looks like a draft copy, may indicate a place from where shops took off. Wild conjecture of course :)
Looks like a rocket engine blueprint or some other form of engine/machinery.
 

Beanieboo111

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Looks like a rocket engine blueprint or some other form of engine/machinery.
Precisely.
There is actually a very interesting book on Piranesi by Arthur Samuel which is supposed to present the painter from an original and unknown to us angle. This is according to people who scrupulously examine his paintings from an alternative historical perspective.
 

Tigermouse

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My thinking is... There was a natural disaster during a time of power struggles between emerging empires and the old world order. These new empires -be they countrys or enterprises- used this world wide catastrophy to they're advantage, even encourageing it as I belive happened with the strange earthquake that destroyed portugal for instance. That massive earthquake, started of the coast of Sagres and created a tsunami so big it dostryed them utterly. That land was smashed some areas moving 25 kms in 5 mins. I have stood on that shatered coastline and although the offical records say The wave was 50 meters high, the anihilated forts that stood on top of those cliffs tell a different story. And who sweeeps in to help and nick all the gold? Yup the english.
Seems some regions of the world were worse hit than others and perhaps those were some of the foot holds of the old world order, as I will call them for now for I belive there were more than one old empire but they were joined loosly in some way. A pact of sorts. Any way the new empire and its smaller allies systemticaly eradicate to the best of they're abilitys any trace of the old world. For the greater glory of they're own historys and they're churches historys and they're smaller allies.
Also I read some place that the religion of the khazarians was some form of bal worship. As was the so called ponecians and ... possible the sythians. what I also read was that there is a responsiblity of followers of the faith to take revenge for any slight. To the point of wipping out the memory of those who slighted them and all those that knew them or were related to them. All destroyed Utterly and with out trace! Seems to me that some one realy pissed them off and they have never forgotten or forgiven and are still trying to take they're revenge. ignoring the facts... That there was a major world wide catastrophy in the recent past and denying the origins of the true builders of many of the worlds great citys, and denying them the memory of a defeted enemy.
Why do all that? Because the leopard can not change its spots but it can be adorned in a new coat.
The emergant empires were triumphant but devided. And so on it goes........
 

RedFox

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First long winded post on this website, and it's mostly speculation, so sorry if I make any quality of life errors like placing images in the right places between points. Also sorry if this should be its own thread, for now I guess it's appropriate to post this here?

Are there any completely unsubmerged buildings left at all, like in some of Piranesi's illustrations? Even of his works, buildings that looked unburied were few and far in between, and exceedingly massive. Do we know of anything that survived the first flood/reset around the "1600's" unburied? I feel like even some of the largest surviving old structures have far more than just the first story buried. Comparing 1800's era art of cities to the modern day, and then to the rare instances where we have depictions of those places from 1600/1700 or older, it seems evident there's far more than one or two stories under the ground.

There are only two places I can think of that may either be unsullied, but is perhaps more likely has evidence of its submersion very well disguised: Vatican City and Trastevere. Admittedly I've not seen a lot of either city, but of what I have I've seen no windows coming out of the ground or the like. Vatican City actually seems to be the most well preserved old world city (why would that be, hmmm?), but considering the scale we've been hinted at, I find some of the structures surrounding the main attractions suspiciously short.

Comparing depictions of the massive apartment complexes to older depictions are what give it away the most to me, like the massive housing complexes we see in places like St. Petersburg or Dresden. Of course, the same style of "apartment" is found all over the world, and older art shows them even taller than what survives. I always thought those buildings looked off, disproportionate in some way. Those photos from Russia of excavated streets show 5+ buried stories under the streets. Who knows what's under that? Who's to say most of the giant cathedrals left standing aren't 40% submerged? For another example, I always found how many cathedrals have a short first floor (that's still extremely large compared to us), a much larger second floor, and then a smaller third floor very odd. Antwerp Cathedral is a good example. And with Cologne Cathedral, I find the size of the doors (while massive) very odd compared with the size of the windows.

Maybe I'm making a faulty assumption, but I'd think massive windows came with massive people. On a lot of buildings, windows are turned into doors, so I just find the scale odd. Perhaps such buildings were refitted after the first flood when most of the supersized humans died off, and were retrofitted for the 8-13~ foot humans. I saw an image on here of an 8~ foot tall giant with a normal person in front of a door that seemed to be perfectly sized for the giant. I wonder now if that door was original, or was (professionally) fitted after the first flood. On a lot of old palaces and Cathedrals I've also noticed doors that seem to be for different tiers of giant, all far too large for us. Perhaps the erasure of the titans ties into why many old buildings, even if retrofitted and partially submerged, have entrances that seem designed for the mid tiers of giant whether original to it's construction or not. Compare the doors of a place like the Capitol Building, which aren't original to whatever it was when it was unburied to flood buildings like "hotels" that have doors for normal people added later. The difference in quality is very apparent and points to giants still being alive and influential and some of that old world construction method being retained when buildings were modified/unsurfaced/retrofitted. I feel like this points to the death of titans but survival of other heights of giant that went on to live in what was left of their world. Saint Petersburg is odd to me too, with its famous arch seemingly designed for titans but the windows surrounding it far more "mid tier" in comparison. Perhaps they were all that survived, and that's why we seemingly have renovations and possibly new buildings popping up after the first calamity that are perfectly sized for them, and nothing made to titan size any longer. It seems likely to me at this point that the first flood killed the titans, and the second the mid tiers.

Implied reconstructions of cities like Seattle (which has a thread here), while we're unsure if a reconstruction ever took place since the dates were so unbelievable, still seems to point towards stuff for mid sized giants being made to an at least similar level of quality as titan sized stuff. Throughout the ages, there are definitely some differences (and examples of people after the first flood misusing technology, like those "fireplaces" from medieval art that are too grand to be used just for fire.) but it's all still far more ambitious than anything we can do now.

Then we have buildings like St. Paul's in London, where the bottom story's discoloration makes it look like it was buried then dug out. It also looks alarmingly similar to the US Capitol Building. Another of evidence that a lot of these Capitol style buildings have another floor adorned with massive columns directly under the one we assume is the main floor. Even moreso, this style of building shows up in old art, too. Pantheon like entrances with massive columns, but with two floors like this instead of just one. (Unfortunately I don't have an image on hand, but I'm sure many of you have seen what I'm talking about. There may be a third floor, even, but I don't think I've seen one of those yet. Maybe I need to dig more through flood artist works or "Renaissance"/Classical art. As far as I can tell those are the best sources we have of the "purest" version of the unburied world before the two floods/resets.) And I always thought the Capitol building looked strangely squashed compared to the massive dome. I almost assumed it was unsubmerged, but after looking around I found this image that clearly shows tiny, odd looking windows at the very base of the building. So it would seem even this is buried.

It's mind boggling to think such relics were/are even bigger. Depictions of seemingly unburied, colossal buildings seem to stop in art after 1600-1700. Probably because after that they were buried, and then buried again, around the 1800s. I'm starting to assume what's left now that make up our largest structures are only part of what would've once looked like the unimaginably large palaces of old, and everything else is either partially submerged or completely destroyed. After everything I've learned from this website, I'm convinced there was practicality to everything back then. Classical stuff was colossal because titans were common, and "Renaissance" was just "giant" because the 8-13~ foot race were the most common giant. Just speculation, of course.

Bonus speculation: This other work of Piranesi's is fascinating to me and I can't imagine this surviving in the real world, except maybe as a glorified cemetery... Which reminds me.. Don't we see a few old cemeteries across the world with tombs in the "Roman" style with beautiful statues, all crammed together and very similar to some of what's we have depicted? Makes you wonder if something like insane (3rd image) could be lurking below. Old art hints to us that people in the old world stored their dead above ground, of course in super ornate buildings typical of them, so although I'm not sure if this third illustration is depicting a city or a place for their dead, I wouldn't be surprised at either conclusion.

Lengthy erratic post! Sorry. Mostly observations I wanted to point out after a few months lurking.
 

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Verity

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Depictions of seemingly unburied, colossal buildings seem to stop in art after 1600-1700. Probably because after that they were buried, and then buried again, around the 1800s.
I presumed it was a 2-for-1 deal with modern wars; a). continually create chaos with which to recreate their order (Ordo Ab Chao), and b) destroy evidence of the olde world.
This always occurs to me with the Hubert Robert paintings. I always think it was a miracle (and rather suspicious) that the Sphinx only lost its nose. Why do they still have the hots for Egypt? An historic soft spot in the cavity where their hearts should sit?

Don't mean to veer off but I just found this image searching for a H. Robert painting to illustrate scale (any excuse..:) ). These come with an interesting story (see the tiny people under bridge).
This first one comes with this bit of text;
Le Pont Sur Le Torrent, painted in the mid-1780s by Hubert Robert, measures over 20 feet wide by 13 feet high, and carries an estimate of $2 million - $3 million
(this was written by a blogger in 2010). Originally commissioned by the Duc de Luynes for the dining room of his mansion in Paris, in 1925 it was acquired at auction by William Randolph Hearst and once decorated the beachfront castle that the newspaper baron purchased in late 1927 in Sands Point, Long Island as a retreat for his wife Millicent. The awe-inspiring artwork has not been seen in public in more than 50 years.
hearstpaint.jpg

Then this one below, which seems identical in place if not in human scale, has a Nazi/Rothschild story. Both paintings are attributed to H. Robert. Note the scale of the people..
1233439_f520.jpg
Artist: Hubert Robert
Title: The Bridge Confiscated Collection: Sel 169 (previously Sel 156) (Seligmann, Paris).
This work was seized by the Nazis from Edouard Alphonse James de Rothschild. In 1940, the Baron and his wife escaped to Lisbon, Portugal right after the Nazi occupation of France. From there they were able to continue on their way to New York City, New York. It is there that they waited until the end of World War II to return to their homeland of Austria. But before his escape to the United States, James and his wife did their best to hide their massive art collection worth millions from the Nazi's. He hid most of his collection somewhere on the Haras de Meautry farm and at his Château de Reux estate. But in 1940, the Nazi's caught up with the Rothschild's treasure, raiding and looting everything in sight.


WHY were the Nazi's seizing such strange images? They were many things but whimsical wasn't one of them, was it?
The first painting was owned by a media mogul, the second by a bankster. Then even the Nazi's were after these... documents.
Fishy.
 

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