Legendary city of Norumbega: could it be Washington, DC?

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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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I'm wondering what those cities on the below c. 1545 map are. The entire map is below my cut out. As you can see, only 1/3 of this map "survived".

The description provided with this map was inline with everything else "official" - Map of North and South America. Cartographic elements include compass roses, rhumb lines, and scales, location of harbors and some rivers. Decorative elements include ships, windheads, views of towns, mountains, and trees. Includes flags showing the possessions of European claimants to America.

Early representation of Newfoundland, Lower California, the Amazon, and the Ladrones. "This is one of the earliest maps to show the results of Spanish exploration of the interior of North and South America. On the continent of South America is recorded Francisco de Orellana's great trek between 1539 and 1542. Starting at Quito, Orellana traveled across the Andes to the Amazon and down that great river to its mouth. Originally in three parts, this map has been attributed to António Pereira, a Portuguese seaman. The other two sections have not, as yet, been found.

1540_Amtonio_map-1_1.jpg

1540_Amtonio_map-1.jpg
- Archivo:Voyage of Francisco de Orellana Map by António Pereira 1546
 

whitewave

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On the i584 Michael Lok map, is it i584 or i582? (1582 was the year the Gregorian calendar was introduced)

The Piri Reis map (1513) shows NA with cities/towns on the East coast.
"In 1542-43 Jean Alfonse described a land he called Norombega.....The people use many words which sound like Latin."
If the Vikings/Northmen were there hundreds of years before Columbus (and it looks like they were), why do Norumbegans have Latin sounding language? Probably didn't learn it from the Vikings who got to NA even before they got to Europe.


"a great river. It often appeared on subsequent European maps of North America, lying south of Acadia..."
Who named the river Acadia? Akkadians?

Several accounts question whether this new land was part of Asia. Why? Did the native inhabitants resemble Asians? Was there Asian-looking architecture?

I don't guess I have a point; just more questions.
 

GroundhogLfe

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On the i584 Michael Lok map, is it i584 or i582? (1582 was the year the Gregorian calendar was introduced)

The Piri Reis map (1513) shows NA with cities/towns on the East coast.
"In 1542-43 Jean Alfonse described a land he called Norombega.....The people use many words which sound like Latin."
If the Vikings/Northmen were there hundreds of years before Columbus (and it looks like they were), why do Norumbegans have Latin sounding language? Probably didn't learn it from the Vikings who got to NA even before they got to Europe.


"a great river. It often appeared on subsequent European maps of North America, lying south of Acadia..."
Who named the river Acadia? Akkadians?

Several accounts question whether this new land was part of Asia. Why? Did the native inhabitants resemble Asians? Was there Asian-looking architecture?

I don't guess I have a point; just more questions.
I believe the "Vikings" were eventually pushed out from there. Something happened in 13th or 14th century there. All that I've read indicates towards this from the destruction of their colonies in Greenland and most likely "Frisland" also. Their heritage was to be later resumed there then as the Norman / French occupation. There could've been a war going on we're not fully aware of or know only scraps.

The Latin or Romance languages are often defined as Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italian. Now there the French stand out if it is stated that many words used there resemble Latin. That could indicate a French Norman Viking occupation there at those times and the naming of the place be similar to Swedish / Germanic due to it's antiquity as a continuation for their previous visitation there. I'm still thinking the bega/berg part is meaning hill and you got at least the Capitol hill there as a landmark.

To elaborate that the Swedish and German languages have a similar root if we are to speculate the language spoken by the Vikings. It's really hard to say how much the language has changed from those times they were used in the Viking age if we presume the Vikings used "Swedish". Even old English resembled more of a Germanic language from what I've understood.
 
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whitewave

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Not sure this snippet is entirely appropriate for this thread but, as I didn't know where else to put it, here it is. A little introduction: Before the Revolutionary war there was a bit of inflammatory revolution of sorts regarding the ineptitude and corruption of their monarchy and aristocrats going on in Britain being played out in their newspapers by anonymous but obviously learned persons referring to themselves as "Atticus, Lucius, and, most famously, Junius". There are quite a few tidbits of interest in these published letters. The one I want to add to this thread is a retort by Lucius regarding the resignation of Field Marshall Sir Jeffrey Amherst, concerning the King allowing Amherst a sizable pension for his service.

"The honors of this country and its treasures to support them, have often been lavished on many who deserved them less than the conqueror of America."
Amherst resigned because, after winning Canada for the Brits, he was made governor of Virginia but told he had to move from Montreal and live in Virginia which would subject him to a lesser officer which had once served under him. This was against military protocols and an affront to his honor and, I guess, he really like Canada or dreaded living in Virginia. Anyway, he refused and resigned but still got a pension which irked some Brits who badmouthed him for it. The non-de-plume Lucius MAY have been exaggerating Amherst's accomplishments in defense of him but then again, Amherst WAS the one who suggested (in writing) that blankets be infected with smallpox to drive out the loosely confederated Indians in that area who opposed and fought against British occupation on their lands. He bemoaned the fact that Britain was too far to send for English hunting dogs to hunt the natives as the Spanish had done.
Since we know from morbidity reports of that time that smallpox did wipe out most of the inhabitants (even though natives were generally not counted in the population or reports made as few cared what happened to them), Amherst may very well be the "conqueror of America" via biological warfare.

Another interesting tidbit which I hope yields enough supporting evidence worthy of a thread on the subject is the names of Atticus, Lucius, Junius in the newspaper battle of the 3. Why Romanish names? This newspaper battle took place from 1760-1767 and, despite many warnings, could not deter the inevitable Revolutionary War.
 
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KorbenDallas

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whitewave

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Maybe I'm especially dense this morning but is that article saying that Smith found Maltese crosses in all those "nations" or that he depicted the towns on his map with the symbol?
 

BrokenAgate

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These old maps are as interesting in what they don't contain as what they do. The António Pereira map shows what I assume is Hudson's Bay, with some rivers feeding into it, but no Great Lakes. The lakes are such a distinctive feature that I can't imagine any cartographer or traveler missing them if they traveled to the region. When the Great Lakes appeared could be a subject for a separate thread, perhaps.

As for Norumbega, it sounds so much like Nuremburg that I wonder if there is a connection. Perhaps the people who settled in both regions had a common origin.
 

JWW427

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St. John, New Brunswick, might be a possibility since the two rivers split as is shown on one of the old maps.
I don't know why the old maps don't show Nova Scotia.
To the north in New Brunswick, the old "Roquelai" might be the town of Rimouski.

The St. John arts center was donated by Carnegie, an illuminati robber baron despite his many "contributions." Did he know something we don't about this town?

The buildings there in St. John are "very interesting" old world style.
Check out the "must have" ye olde post office and customs house.
No self-respecting "Tartarian" sea port would not have them!

Fort Howe has little left of it. Dont know if it was once a star fort, but Canada is RIFE with them. Huge quantities.

Excerpts:

"Norum Name Meaning. Norwegian: habitational name from any of four farmsteads named in Old Norse as Nórheimr, from nór 'narrow passage in a river', 'strait' + heimr 'homestead', 'farmstead'.

"On one of Verrazzano's maps, the coast of New England is oddly named "Norumbega". Naturally, one cannot expect a "segener" like Verrazzano to pronounce Norse words correctly, much less spell or understand them. Basic study on the possible Norse origin of the word "Norumbega," bastardized by an ignorant Latin, suggests much support for the idea advanced: "Norum" is nothing else than the Norse word "naerom," meaning "near under" (and contains the stem word "om" from "omme") and "bega" is merely a misspelled-and-mispronounced Italian version of the Norse word "rege" or "rike". I believe it is obvious that "Norumbega" is an Italianized version of the Norse word "Naerom-rega," "Naeromrike," or, possibly, "Naerom-vikja" which would translate into the meaning of "the near-under regions" or "the near-under-harbor". But its real meaning is even clearer: It is only a slightly modified version of "omme-rike".


"Ommerike" is "America."

I also noted that on the famous map on KD's original post, to the far right is "Frisland." Yet another mythical island that supposedly sank but is on many old maps.

The railway station picture is in McAdam, New Brunswick, 60 miles NW of St. John. Hmmm...

There is also an anomaly in a rural wooded area west of St. John, then another just NW of Menzies Lake. They could be ancient settlements.
Its a wild life preserve.

I still like the Wash. DC idea because I live there!

JWW

st john NB map 3.jpeg
 

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Recognition

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Norumbega was a name of a region with what looks like City of Bega / Norumbega City for a capitol. Then again, the name of the city in the region of Norumbega could have been different, and Mr. Ingram just called it that way.

Geographical description of how to get to the city of Bega rules Penobscot Bay out. Plus other additional details which are not in this thread, for I'm working on part 2. This OP is too long.

I just pick a name on some old map and google:)

Nope, never heard of this Michael Tsarion.
Is it possible that the region of Norumbega was the same as the city of Norumbega? A city much bigger and richer than any we can really imagine, now? Could explain all the gorgeous buildings in Washington, Baltimore and Philadelphia. What if they were all part of one vast city? I'm especially taken by the mention of buildings of silver and crystal. Makes me think of buildings like these:
IMG_4384.PNG

IMG_6766.JPG
IMG_6770.JPG
IMG_6772.JPG
IMG_6775.JPG

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I'm wondering what those cities on the below c. 1545 map are. The entire map is below my cut out. As you can see, only 1/3 of this map "survived".

The description provided with this map was inline with everything else "official" - Map of North and South America. Cartographic elements include compass roses, rhumb lines, and scales, location of harbors and some rivers. Decorative elements include ships, windheads, views of towns, mountains, and trees. Includes flags showing the possessions of European claimants to America.

Early representation of Newfoundland, Lower California, the Amazon, and the Ladrones. "This is one of the earliest maps to show the results of Spanish exploration of the interior of North and South America. On the continent of South America is recorded Francisco de Orellana's great trek between 1539 and 1542. Starting at Quito, Orellana traveled across the Andes to the Amazon and down that great river to its mouth. Originally in three parts, this map has been attributed to António Pereira, a Portuguese seaman. The other two sections have not, as yet, been found.


- Archivo:Voyage of Francisco de Orellana Map by António Pereira 1546
This map is amazing.

The amount of crazy stuff in there is astounding.
IMG_6777.JPG


A spaceship:
IMG_6779.JPG


A covered up mudflood building:
IMG_6781.JPG


IMG_6784.jpg



A flag like two american flags (as above so below?). A spaceship or submarine? And cities that look like London or France at that time:
IMG_6782.JPG


IMG_6780.JPG


Obviously, something was erased from this banner. What was it?
IMG_6778.JPG


Wow, just wow!
 
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jd755

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Not erased just faded or made to appear faded the resolution of the scan is low its not easy to pull detail out. Cannot find a tiff anywhere.
Three words NOVA EST are clearly the first two but I am unable to pull anything from the third save a H.
IMG_6778CROP.JPG


Anyone with a Jstor account could download and peruse this PDF. The extract is very intriguing!
index.gif
 

Recognition

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Not erased just faded or made to appear faded the resolution of the scan is low its not easy to pull detail out. Cannot find a tiff anywhere.
Three words NOVA EST are clearly the first two but I am unable to pull anything from the third save a H.


Anyone with a Jstor account could download and peruse this PDF. The extract is very intriguing!
Could you show where you found your clearer version of the ribbon? I'd like to look at that version of the pic as a whole:)
 

jd755

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Could you show where you found your clearer version of the ribbon? I'd like to look at that version of the pic as a whole:)
Sorry remiss of me not to post the link. When the brain cell fires, hopefully soon, I'll post it. All I have at the moment is it was on a map selling site that was using rumsey's software which one escapes me!
Post automatically merged:

Twas a Library site, not a map seller!
Amtonio [North and South America]
 
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JWW427

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The above French map shows a Bangor star fort as Norumbega town.
This is a big clue.
Well done everyone!

JWW
 
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