Ironclad ships - another example of Tartarian technology?

PrincepAugus

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Man, I just love these ships!

And rivets? Where we're going, we don't need rivets. xD
 

wizz33

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i always get the feeling when i look at those turrets and guns that they dont belong, as if they were retrofitted but there is something that used the same turntables. like fantasy sails on a flying ship.
 

jd755

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enjoyed reading through this thread. a couple of things struck me as off so too speak.
the launch picture on wikiliar shows numerous folks stood at the waters edge which is foolhardy at best and deadly at worst. the backwash from the dynamic launch would sweep them violently off their feet mixing their bodies with incoming slipway timbers which take no prisoners.
having attended a couple of launches of 4,000 tonne submarines one gets an up front experience of a dynamic launch.

this leads me to feel the dynamic launch is actually controlled by a winch which we cannot see also missing is a line off the stern attached to a small boat to pass to a tug or a tug itself which enables the tug to prevent the ship from grounding...

so i went searching for more images and using google translate obtaind the russian version of the ships launch name and using startpage found these pages in russian which are really interesting to my eyes at least...

«Коммуна» 1915

Вечная "Коммуна". Репортаж со старейшего судна ВМФ России - РИА Новости, 29.07.2018

i worked on two rivetted ammunition barges many moons ago and have some experience of observing rivetting up close. the fact there is no sealer between the plates or plates and frames still beggars belief even today..
the rivets used on the ship are very small and the plates are equally small which suggests old rivetting as would be the case if the ship is over 100 years old...
there is some odd plates that are not rivetted along their edges in the picture of the rudder stock which is odd and the two anodes are there to protect the propellors from corrosion..oddly in another picture there are a pair of propellors stood on deck as if on display...there are also some welded plates over the older rivetted plates which look odd.

the hull steel doesn't appear to rust as per the russian claims but the deck steel does!
another thing about this steel is why is this the only ship built from it, well at least it hull is?
surely if this shipyad had come up with this steel (highly unlikely as it is a steel smelting company which develops the different steels not a shipbuilder) why didn't every ship they produced after this one have their hulls made from it?
it would put them streets ahead of the competition and the lifespan of the russian navy vessels would be extraordiany but no this one appears unique...

i have feeling the hull wasn't built by the shipyard or by the russians...the fact wikiliar and the russian pages say it was built in st petersburg suggests to me they 'found' the hull or rediscovered it...no evidence whatsoever for this feeling beyond the type of steel used and the stated location of the builder and the ships apparent longevity...

clicked through to the wikiliar pictures in particular the dismantling one..
wikiliar says she was scrapped in saigon yet the image credit states toulon..
the fact she is being scrapped 'at sea' as opposed to up against a dock wall or is suspicious to me...at sea there are no cranes or winches to move the heavy plates around and yet there they are cutting 3 inch thick steel and lowering it into a barge moored alongside without any apparent mechanical aid...
the plates still attached do not appear to be three inches thick

the last time i was in a shipyard was in the late nineties and there a 100 tonne per square inch press was used to form flat plate into all manner of shapes in the range of 1 inch to 2 inch in thickness i seriously doubt such a press was knocking around when le redoutable was built...

another thing is how exactly are the dismantlers cutting out or taking out the plates even if they are small in size
the only way to do this with a rivetted hull is either with oxy acetylene torches, an air powered caulking gun and chisel or hand hammers and chisels...the latter being a near impossibility...
were the hull welded then only oxy acetylene cutting could be used...at least as far as known technology goes..

there is a picture of hms warriors 'armour' plating in section on wikiliar and it shows the majority of the thickness is wood and i feel the same is true for le redoubtable which begs the question where did all the wood go in that dismantling picture as there doesn't seem to be any on board...

there is another picture of le redoutable moored in toulon with another bigger ironclad and it looks extremely weird...it is a pristine image lit uniformly in exactly the same way i see in many dreams i have...i never see a sun just an even pristine light source...
le redoutable has her boats lowered just above the water yet who hangs a boat off of a barbette and as for the aft boat can anyone explain how those davits are supposed to be secured to the ship?
also le redoubtable is devoid of crew...not a soul can be seen although there a few blurry figures on the after larger ironclad...

the dockside the buildings indeed the entire image is very 'thin' on people and appears to be in absolutely spotless condition...not a clue why just a feeling something is not 'right' with the picture nor indeed with this pair of ships...there is nothing in it to show where they actually are...

sometimes i look at these pristine pictures and feel some sort of connection to them or rather their locations as though they are 'out of time and place' so too speak...could we actually be looking at hyperborea or lemuria or tartaria or some other place currently unknown

oh the image link would help...thought i'd bookmarked it but no...anyway here is a cut down version just showing redoubtable
 

whitewave

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I wish this narrator explained who financed all of them USA and CSA Ironclads.
Well it wasn't with income or inheritance taxes.
State and federal inheritance taxes began after 1900, while the states (but not the federal government) began collecting sales taxes in the 1930s. The United States imposed income taxes briefly during the Civil War and the 1890s. In 1913, the 16th Amendment was ratified, permanently legalizing an income tax.

History of taxation in the United States

I contributed to a thread on another site in which we looked into the history of taxation and over 100 taxes have been added (some hidden in the form of fees and licenses) in the past 100 years. Property tax and income tax are the most onerous as they effectively demonstrate that we are a slave nation that owns nothing.

Even with property taxes being collected briefly during the Civil War, it seems unlikely that it would have been enough to finance the building of these ships. Personal opinion only.
 

wizz33

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i still think that someone took a submarine or spacecraft and turned it in an armed coastal gunboat. it really is a miracle that it can move let alone fight.
take a look at the stacks the big one is super clean while the small one has been used, and they both dont seem to have toilet bent in them,heance the covers.
the hinged portholes looks like a diving valve.
and it way to small
 

jd755

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Doh moment, sorry. the port is brest not toulon. Pay attention that man:oops:

Here is a picture from the same series showing t'other side of the ship which reveals the small black funnel actually belongs to one of the most bizarre ships i've yet seen..

ironclad_ships.JPEG

Source

still very few people although the dockside does appear as dirty as most i have encountered but check out that big crane in the background...jules verne stuff...

and these two in cherbourg...n'er a rivet in sight

cherbourg_arsenal_1.jpeg

Source

are there any modern ships kicking about that look as sleek and well built as these two?
 
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KorbenDallas

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These last two ships are insane for 1870s. Gazebos up on top look so ridiculous.

It's like two of the Verne's Nautilus submarines docked side by side.
 
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KorbenDallas

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Kalakala is probably for a different thread. Originally named Piralta, it was destroyed by fire. After it was fixed it became Kalakala.
They do not even look alike this Piralta aka Kalakala. Interesting name too it has.
Kalakala
 

Bear Claw

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Would it be a reasonable leap of logic to link a civilisation who utilise electromagnetic energy to the use of ships made out of iron. Iron as far as I am aware, increases the electromagnetic force.

Iron is a strange substance, being a base metal (i.e it reacts to oxygen). Alchemy is in part the study of turning base metals into noble metals, like gold, silver. Perhaps if ironclad ships are an example of Tartarian technology (Kommuna would suggest that iron treated by Tartaria was alchemically purer than iron iron), it could indicate that Tartarian tech had alchemical knowledge that would perhaps be at odds with the economic system we have in the world today.
 

jd755

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Some more pictures of le redoutable
"as built" apparently.
asbuilt.jpg


NH 74893: Redoutable (French Battleship, 1876). Moored off Brest navy yard, France circa the late 1870s or early 1880s. She is as first completed, with ship rig. The coast defense ship Tempéte is moored off Redoutable's port side, with only its upperworks visible. At left are the bows of a Colbert class battleship and a Victorieuse class armored cruiser. Note the crane on the quay in the foreground, with a steam engine's crankshaft beyond it. The original print is in an Office of Naval Intelligence album of French warship photographs.

got the name and purpose of the bizarre ship which is a tonnerre clas coastal defence ironclad...

also found the picture of le redutable showing the other ships described above.
brest2.jpg


brest is looking more like a normal port or harbour in the above two images..

finally there is this one which has sailors working on it which when enlarged although it gets blurry the hull is seen to be made up of small close fitting plates espcially visible just aft of the barbette..sadly the resolution is not high enough to see the jointing technique...
redoutable.jpg

Post automatically merged:

Doh moment, sorry. the port is brest not toulon. Pay attention that man:oops:

Here is a picture from the same series showing t'other side of the ship which reveals the small black funnel actually belongs to one of the most bizarre ships i've yet seen..


still very few people although the dockside does appear as dirty as most i have encountered but check out that big crane in the background...jules verne stuff...

and these two in cherbourg...n'er a rivet in sight


are there any modern ships kicking about that look as sleek and well built as these two?
those good looking pair are from this class of ships
French armoured ram Cerbère 1865-1887

She was part of the Cerbère-class an improved version by Dupuy de Lôme of the Tareau-class with as sister ships the Belier, Bouledogue and the Tigre. The Cerbère was laid down at Brest on 14 September 1875, launched 23 April 1868, completed in October 1868 and stricken in 1887. These vessels possessed a wooden hull and a turtle shaped deck with a aft ship beak shaped.

The armour of wrought iron consisted of a 7-8.7” belt (220mm thick on a 800mm thick layer of wood) while the turret was protected by 7”. According to Conways with a displacement of 3,532 tons were the dimensions of these rams 65,56 (between perpendiculars) x 1640 x 5,66 metres. (maximum). According to Von Kronenfels with a displacement of 3,403 tons (design) and 3,510-3,758 tons in service were her dimensions 66,00 (waterline) x 16,19 (maximum) x 5,50 (design)-5,55/5,82 (full load) fore and aft 5,40 (design)-5,82/5,97 (full load) metres. Hold at keel was 5,37 metres. Proportion length: beam was 4:08. The gun turret was placed on third of the ships’ length and had a diameter of 18,6 metres. The armament consisted of 2-9.4” (24cm) guns later strengthened by 4-1pdr revolver guns and off course a spur ram of 10’. The engines and 6 oval boilers supplied 1,800 ihp (Conways) or 1,530 (Von Kronenfels which also said that the Tigre had 1,880 ihp) allowing a speed of 12-12,5 knots (Conways) or 11,39 knots (Von Kronenfels) and 79,80 revolutions (Von Kronenfels) with a coal bunker capacity of 180 tons. Her crew numbered 159 men.
 
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