Interesting Finds on Old Japanese Maps

UnusualBean

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1785 Continental Map
JDObDh6.jpg



1853 Country Map
TGma704.jpg

What I'm noticing in the 1785 map:
  • Australia who? I only know Magallanica, aka Terra Australis. That red square bit sticking up is New Guinea.
  • Lush green Sahara
  • Lush green northern America and Eurasia
  • Lush green Magallanica
  • The Arctic region was a frozen continent named "Land of the Night People"? This isn't the only old Japanese map that shows this.
  • Greenland was Fulantea, or Wolandia if you go by Chinese pronunciation.
What I'm noticing in the 1853 map:
  • Goodbye Magallanica and Land of the Night People.
  • Japan and Korea the same country?
  • The heck is going on in the Americas?
What do you guys see?

Let me know if you want any bits translated, although some of the text is really hard to make out, especially on that second one...
 

KorbenDallas

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Flyinrod

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Let me know if you want any bits translated, although some of the text is really hard to make out, especially on that second one...
UnusualBean(or anyone) could you read/translate anything from the upper left corner about those islands please?, i'd be curious to know

japanese map.jpg
1785 Continental Map
weird how australia and south america are touching south pole.
 
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UnusualBean

UnusualBean

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UnusualBean(or anyone) could you read/translate anything from the upper left corner about those islands please?, i'd be curious to know

View attachment 12200
JDObDh6_2.jpg

This is the best I could do, sorry.

Thanks to pushamaku providing a larger version of the map, I can now see that Konoranchi is actually Konorante, Suuchi is actually Suute, Torin is actually Toritsu, and Furantea should be Furantea, but it looks suspiciously like Korantea. Also, that tiiiny writing on the bottom left that I couldn't make out before says Hotoraruho.

Bear in mind that every K could be a G, every F/H could be a P or B, every T could be a D, every S could be a Z, and every CH/SH could be a J.
Thank goodness for modern standardization in writing... o_O

I'll make an updated version of the little map later.



weird how australia and south america are touching south pole.
Australia doesn't exist on the 1785 map, it's covered by a large continent labeled as Magallanica, also known as Terra Australis.
 
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whitewave

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Amazing finds!!!
And yes, ancient maps made by different cultures is a direction we should be considering!
Exactly! I sort of slapped my forehead when I saw the Japanese map, thinking, "Doh"! I'm such an American it didn't even occur to me to look to the East for answers. Thanks to UnusualBean for getting me to think outside my Westernized box.
 
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UnusualBean

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I would like to know what Egyptian Cairo is called on this map. Thank you.
I can make out "ka" in the 1853 one, but the text is too small to be sure on the rest.

The 1785 one looks like it says Hahirounia. Anything you were expecting it to be?
Totally unrelated, but the name of Africa caught my eye. It's written 利末亜, which has the provided pronunciation of "Afurika" (Africa), but should be pronounced Rimatsua. On a whim I looked it up in Chinese and it's Limoya. I wonder if this could be hinting at an old name for Africa that was in the process of being changed? The characters in the 1853 map changed to 亜弗利加, which properly reads as Afurika.

Edit: It's 利未亜, not 利末亜. Derp. That would make it Liweiya and Ribia respectively, aka the continent of Libya.
 
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KorbenDallas

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I can make out "ka" in the 1853 one, but the text is too small to be sure on the rest.

The 1785 one looks like it says Hahirounia. Anything you were expecting it to be?
I’m probably trying to figure out what it was not called back in the day.

Some of the maps name Cairo Babylon, or Babylonia.

Hahirounia is interesting if thats the way it is supposed to be pronounced.

Hahir - Cair?
Hahirounia - Babylonia?

Probably too much stretching involved on my part here.

This sure is an interesting 18th century way to pronounce Cairo though.

Also those words for Aftica are unfamiliar. Grounds for some digging I guess.
 

KorbenDallas

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What do you mean? Where is the inconsistency? I don't see any from looking at both maps.
Not sure what inconsistency you are talking about.

I meant that planes do not fly where terra Australis, and Hyperborea used to be. At least on the flight path map those areas appear to be void of air traffic.
 

dreamtime

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Ok, now I get it. You imply that Hyperborea and Terra Australis still exist, and planes are not supposed to go there. I thought you meant something related to plane paths not making sense on the modern maps, but I misunderstood that.

It's true that planes are almost guarded in a narrow path, which makes sense economically, but there seem to be real efforts to keep it that way: Air New Zealand Flight 901 - Wikipedia
 
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UnusualBean

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I’m probably trying to figure out what it was not called back in the day.

Some of the maps name Cairo Babylon, or Babylonia.

Hahirounia is interesting if thats the way it is supposed to be pronounced.

Hahir - Cair?
Hahirounia - Babylonia?

Probably too much stretching involved on my part here.

This sure is an interesting 18th century way to pronounce Cairo though.

Also those words for Aftica are unfamiliar. Grounds for some digging I guess.
Oh! You know, it probably is Babylonia!
In Japanese, H can become B by adding little quote marks called dakuten to the character, but for some reason these weren't consistently used in the past. Even though they wrote ハヒロウニア (Hahirounia), they could've totally meant バビロウニア (Babirounia).
I don't know why I didn't think of that :eek:

Also, on second thought the Japanese pronunciation for those characters for Africa probably would've been "Rimaa", making it much more similar to the Chinese "Limoya".
 

asatiger1966

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Ok, now I get it. You imply that Hyperborea and Terra Australis still exist, and planes are not supposed to go there. I thought you meant something related to plane paths not making sense on the modern maps, but I misunderstood that.

It's true that planes are almost guarded in a narrow path, which makes sense economically, but there seem to be real efforts to keep it that way: Air New Zealand Flight 901 - Wikipedia
I have a story about where you cannot fly, but that is a different thread.
These maps might clear the air so to speak on where most people are flying.

All of the airports of the world, according to this same database.jpg

AirSpaces.jpgopenflights-routedb-2048 World Map Flight Paths.jpgThe Antropogenic Planet.jpg
 

KorbenDallas

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What about this 1602 one? Anything interesting on there? Looks suspiciously similar.

"Kunyu Wanguo Quantu" by Matteo Ricci (1602)
Kunyu Wanguo Quantu (Chinese: 坤輿萬國全圖; literally: "A Map of the Myriad Countries of the World"; Italian: Carta Geografica Completa di tutti i Regni del Mondo, "Complete Geographical Map of all the Kingdoms of the World"), printed by Italian Jesuit missionary Matteo Ricci at the request by Wanli Emperor in 1602, is the first known European-styled Chinese world map (and the first Chinese map to show the Americas). The map is in Classical Chinese, with detailed annotations and descriptions of various regions of the world, a brief account of the discovery of the Americas, polar projections, scientific explanation of parallels and meridians, and proof that the sun is bigger than the moon. Following Chinese cartographical convention, Ricci placed China ("the Middle Kingdom") at the centre of the world. This map is a significant mark of the expansion Chinese knowledge of the world, and an important example of cultural syncretism directly between Europe and China. It was also exported to Korea and Japan as well.

 

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