Forget Sumeria. It's impossible to decipher an unknown language

KorbenDallas

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Lol, apart from that head, bird and may be leg/foot, I would give a totally different explanation to the initial images.

Bread, hand and day just cracked me up. For me those look like a wedge, hair comb and an eye.
 

ISeenItFirst

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Agree. Most of those original symbols are much more easily readable than their later "improvements" into cuneiform.
Dunno how readable it would be. If a pic of a foot is to walk, what is run, two feet? And what is foot? How come the pic of a hand isn't grab if foot is walk. Then what is touch?

I agree with KB, those symbols could be interpreted lots of different ways.
 

LordAverage

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Yeah it's true to an extent but I can only see gross inaccuracies in trying to trace these back. To the point where trying to build a base of a whole new seperate language would only fail. But maybe I do underestimate our ability in that department somehow, I just don't see it.
 

PrimalRed

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Dunno how readable it would be. If a pic of a foot is to walk, what is run, two feet? And what is foot? How come the pic of a hand isn't grab if foot is walk. Then what is touch?

I agree with KB, those symbols could be interpreted lots of different ways.
This is all very basic philology. If you deduce the meaning of a symbol, then it works in other applications as well. "He lost his £ in an accident." "That shoe fits his £ very well." "He could % on solid lava because his £ were calloused."

£ is obviously "foot" and % is "walk" in this example. It's simple logic.

Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 

ISeenItFirst

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Obvious only because you made the context obvious in the second sentence. The first could be anything, the third could be lots of things. Second is only obvious because I know what a shoe is, but maybe the guy has large toes and is remarking that his shoe fits his toes well. Or maybe it's a generic symbol for an orthopedic malady, that makes good shoes hard to find.
 

KorbenDallas

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He lost all his money in an accident.
That shoe fits his budget very well.


That was my initial interpretation till I made it to the third sentence.
 

ISeenItFirst

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He lost all his money in an accident.
That shoe fits his budget very well.


That was my initial interpretation till I made it to the third sentence.
At the third, I was stuck, % always make me think curse word. But I couldn't figure out how someone would get calloused cheeks....
 

KorbenDallas

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There is a way to translate Sumerian, or any other type of written language.

A simple dictionary would solve the riddle.

From the traditional stand point the existence of such a dictionary would have no explanation. Therefore, officially, we can not have it. But we can have the end result - the translation.

Who would have such dictionaries? I don’t know, Vatican, British Crown?
 

PrincepAugus

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However whether or not translating can be done or not, aren't we trying to think what Sumerian tablets are actually saying?
 

KorbenDallas

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Not sure what you mean, but I think that translation can be done when you have proper sources to do such a translation.

Decoding is a crock of baloney. Translation is something with basis.

And if you have a small group entrusted with the source, it’s easy to control the translation.

From that stand point our Rosetta stone is a convenient occurrence which allowed us to solve everything Egyptian. Too convenient, and the only such stone as far as I know.

What a simple way to guide the translation in the needed direction.
 

KorbenDallas

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Which means that there is a pretty strong possibility of Napoleon bringing it with him.
 

Jim Duyer

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This is a Text by a german Linguist called Eduard Landmann, which has controversy Theorys about the real decryption of older languages. He is widly ignored by the establishment. Normaly this means , he are right ;-)
One of his claims is, no one can decrypt an unknown language, exept you have a rosetta stone.
He also has decrypte ..huhuhu , the mystical Voynich Manuscript, whitch is in real only "old high German" also called "theodiske spraha" (spraha = language)
As he says, its like in other science areas, you only need to implant a bogus method/theory, then teach it to students, and everything rolls from alone. Especially you only award the works that fit in your narrativ.

Forget Sumeria!
by Erhard Landmann translated by Joska Ramelow

The mishandling of clay tablets and the invention of the wedges for cuneiform scripture.

Some years ago I received a letter from a rather irate gentlemen, who I had written to expressing my point that there never existed a Sumerian, Assyrian or Babylonian culture, thus, he totally misunderstood the point I was making and asked back in a manner close to outrage: "Do you mean to say that the many old style buildings (Ishtar Gate, Ziggurat of Ur) and the hundreds of thousands of cuneiform clay tablets never existed?'' Of course I did not assert that there were no ancient buildings or clay tablets even still uncovered to this day in the location of Mesopotamia between the two mighty rivers Euphrates and Tigris..

I just wanted to say that the cultures known today as 'Sumerian' or 'Babylonian' never existed together with the Sumerian and Assyrian language.
This is on the strength of my discovery that the clay tablets ended up totally wrongly handled, and thus, translated. This leads to a string of constant errors to the point of incomprehension and fabrication of stories mostly reflecting the flowery fantasy of the 'cuneiform expert' interpretors. Why?

As early as 1948 Alice Kober correctly noted deciphering an unknown font in an unknown language is impossible. It is simple logic that an unknown script of an unknown language never heard spoken, cannot be rendered properly, other than by hit and miss guesswork, subject to the imagination of the expert. When I asked one of these famous archaeologist decipherers, that an unknown language in an unknown writing cannot properly be deciphered he agreed, but pointed out that related languages that had been 'deciphered' were useful to help in the task of tackling this problem.

I inferred that the very 'deciphered' languages originally had suffered the same problem, he retorted that there were also 'third' and 'fourth' languages that had already been 'studied' that had yielded enough information to decipher the unknown script and language, obviously, not getting the point. So easy, and yet so illogical the challenge can be to even try to get answers to the first question from these gentlemen.

So if it is impossible to decipher an unknown script in an unknown language in first place and then simply to resort to a second, third or fourth unknown script in an unknown language which apparently had been "deciphered" (which, in my opinion, is an impossibility to the highest degree ) is trying to pot a square peg into a round hole. In consequence there are enough gullible people who believe that everything they are told in this world, whether it is in politics as well as on the campus of the pseudo-sciences.

Some years ago during the lectures to my book “worldpicture shuttering” , some people were adamant in denying that it would be impossible to decipher an unknown script in an unknown language. (and the most stubborn ones are often times the very ones who have actually studied the subject the least and, thus, do know but simply believe) I made the following suggestion to my audience: I wrote down some Japanese phrases in Kanji (Chinese characters) on the blackboard and asked the audience relax, take your time and try and guess what they mean. Then I asked two questions:

whether a) are they Japanese or Chinese sentences?

And b) how the characters would sound?

and c) what were the meaning of these phrases?

(The multiple interpretations and multiple tonalities of Kanji characters, sometimes triple, Four times, or even more , I did not even mention) Although I did not show an unknown script and language, but for the sake of the exercise it was unknown to the audience. None of the participants was in a position to even fathom anything close to resolving this issue. This exercise produced a stunned silence in the lecture hall, since even the most stubborn gainsayers recognized the inherent problem.

Incidentally, you can try this test for yourself at home when you are not conversant in either Japanese or Chinese language. The characters can today be found without big trouble everywhere on the internet. The gentlemen experts of cuneiform and "Sumerian experts'' will by all accounts remain unperturbed and retain their expert composure. It is more likely that the camp followers of Sitchin et. al., who may admit that many things are not quite right with the translations, they will be screaming outrage the loudest, after they have spooned up the nonsense in a re-interpreted 'ultimate' form. But when I accept nonsense for real and only add a new interpretation, then, according to simple mathematical arithmetic we arrive at ' nonsense squared by nonsense'. So, please check out and weigh my photographic evidence in the images provided below to arrive at your own conclusion.

The beautiful thing is that these images do not come from me, but from a professional standard teaching manual about the treatment (preparation) of clay tablets in preserving cuneiform writing. This volume was written by the very people who carry out this type of specialist treatment. Firstly, the clay tablets are being unearthed, unfired, encrusted with dirt and salts from the soil they were found in. Secondly the with encrusted materials are washed (!!) and brushed off. During this process the odd pieces get rubbed off or things simply break off (!!).

Figure 1 shows the very same clay tablets, at the top before, and below after treatment. The large plain areas on the tablets clearly indicate that a lot of data has been lost during he first phase of treatment. Subsequent to this the tablets in expert care are completely (Completely !!!) smeared over with a solidifying paste. This is shown in Figure 2a, 2b and 2c.

Then the tablets get fired the tablets get scratched free again, as shown in Figure 3.

Figure 4 shows a partially freed clay tablet on the surface of which (please check very closely), not a single "wedge" as such is visible. Certainly not the type of wedge we are suddenly treated to in Figure 5. Here the mirror image casts suddenly reveal
'sim sala bim' wondrous cuneiform wedges. These then are the basis for our expert decipherers to come up with the amazing script and language results they all discuss busily amongst themselves.

( For Figure 5, I had to consult another book, because the final products of the process containing the wedge shaped writings were not shown in the first book). You can view thousands of clay tablets, you will not find a single cuneiform wedge. The books, however, that are for reading the script are full of wedges, as are found in Figure 5.

Once you have established the self-created wedges and declared it to be a font, you can make up any system you like. (This is the same for the so-called Mayan calendar, where some hieroglyphs that one could not read were simply declared numbers and hey presto, we have found the "calendrical glyphs" of the Mayan culture. Albeit, there are clearly numbers as we know them today on the very same panel. It is the old
adage when a system is based on a lie to begin with then it's inherent logic becomes self propagating for a long time to come).

Having got that far you invent a "Writing system" for corresponding languages that never existed such as Sumerian, Assyrian, Hittite and so on. (By the way, at this juncture you may enter the bidding process if you want to strike it famous, Since you may enter Urukitian for the City of U-ruk or Bablebaeic or some such?). Likewise, is it not the case that with the Invention of the Sumerian, Assyrian, Hittite languages, the inventors considered the languages perfect, 'that stood the test of time' for decades and centuries and many students of respective 'cultures' found new words and phrases that were added to the canon of their respective 'expert field'. Also, if they could not agree amongst themselves and disputed other respective 'experts' insights and prevailed with their view after all, then their doctorates or professorships were gained as academic titles in the most meritorious and 'deserving' manner.

Let's take for example the case of the adepts of the Zecharia Sitchin myth of the
popular planet "Nibiru". I do not know whether there actually exists a planet, with the
defined properties attributed to this mysterious "planet"
To determine this would definitely be the responsibility of our Astronomers, although
I'm well aware, that our astronomers are not inclined to tell us all there is to know
from what they observe. But two things are certain: if there is such a
planet, none of the clay tablets ever related it's existence in any shape of form. It is
also certain that, 'whatever-it-is', has never been called Nibiru. Also the feeble minded
nonsense of the "Anunaki" (derived from "naked ancestor"?), unfortunately very
difficult to erase from the mindset of people. And by the way, the real truth about the
ancient cultures for the survival of mankind is by magnitudes more important as for
example he hysteria of global warming , which in the most nonsensical way makes us
believe that the 0.03% man-made rise of C02 so important for plant growth, is the
basic challenge to mankind.

....... (shortened by HengistErbse)

Good bye Marduk and Gilgamesh, adieu Enki and Enuma Elish, adiós Anunaki and
Ninurtam; bye bye, Nibiru and the fantastic nonsense in the 5th and 6th Potency,
good bye also patriarch Abraham.
Forget Sumeria! Forget Assyria, Babylon and Chaldea!
But do not forget the "ass from the Ur in Space ", do not forget the rushing to the
skies Bab, the "Bab ylon", do not forget the cold Ea, the "cold Galaxy Ur in space"

Figure 1

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Figure 2 a b c

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Figure 3

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Figure 4

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Figure 5

View attachment 7537


Link to original PDF by Eduard Landmann

One of his claims is, no one can decrypt an unknown language, exept you have a rosetta stone.

Well, just for starters, he is certainly incorrect in making that statement. Read about the 17 year old son of an archaeologist who first deciphered the Mayan language - there was no Rosetta stone involved there. I myself have deciphered quite a few old texts without having the aid of any previous work to draw upon - it does take more work and quite a bit more intelligence, but it does not require anything more than that. Ten years ago I found an alphabet hidden inside of the Codex Seraphinianus, and published it online on my website. I got interviewed by two Russian magazines, and congratulations from some German linguists, but many people, especially in the States, just shrugged it off because they could not do it themselves. Especially since I did not solve the whole Codex translation but only a part of it - they seemed to feel that I should have devoted several years of my life to the task - and I have better things to do. And as far as the Sumerian translations go, most of them are very much the product of agenda-based translators, much as the Bible is. You can check the original Hebrew words in the text yourself and see that most, if not all, of the English translations done are simply wrong. Search Google for "qbible.com hebrew english genesis" or change the last word to any book you wish in the Old Testament. Look on the left side, take each word, hover over it, and then write down the translation. This gives you a true, literal meaning. Then compare your work to the right hand side of that page, where the King James Version is located. You will be amazed.
 

Red Bird

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The Georgia guidestones are probably meant to be a Rosetta Stone after they get rid of a lot of us.

I always think archaeology and history lag behind the computer Age- though maybe I just haven’t read about it. For instance, even with the bad treatment, it seems some researcher is compiling a data base of these symbols (all of them) and can run matches, then run comparisons with ancient and modern Chinese, etc.
plus a lot of other things, though they’re totally into genetics, of course. Like where they are found, known population movements (ha. Forget that : )

This can be problematic, as we see with Fomenco. Just because something is statically significant doesn’t mean your reading of it is true (or the correlation) as others here have brought up. Although many interesting doors opened for study and new thinking.
 

RecycledSoul

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Agree. Most of those original symbols are much more easily readable than their later "improvements" into cuneiform.
Makes me wonder if majority of older people back then had a “wtf” moment like I do when I look at common core math my kid brings home???
 

jd755

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Genesis 1:1
Hebrew to English

1254 create; cut; select, feed
7225 first
9004 PREFIX in;at;to;on;among;with;towards;according to;by;because of
8064 be lofty;the sky;aloft
9005 PREFIX the;this;whether or
0853 entity;self;even;namely
0430 gods;god;magistrate
0776 be firm;earth;land (this one is a guess!)
9005 PREFIX the;this;whether or
0853 entity;self;even;namely
9007 PREFIX and;then ;also;then;yet

King James version

In the beginning 7225 ´Élöhîm אֱלֹהִים 430 created 1254 853 z8804 the heaven 8064 and y853 the earth. 776

Assuming hebrew is read left to right how does one make sense of the hebrew to english translations?
Maybe its just me but it appears to me that if the assumption is that the translation is accurate (and I have no way to know) then clearly the KJB version is cobblers, made up for whatever purpose but to me the Hebrew version can be made to say just about anything anyway (or am I not seeing something others can which begs the question why is gods word hidden from non hebrew speakers) so what is to say it too isn't made up cobblers?
 
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Jim Duyer

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Hebrew is read right to left, since it is an Arabic-Amorite concoction. However at qbible.com they give you the original alphabetical characters on the left of the screen and you read those from the top line to the bottom, and right to left.

Yes, you have hit on the exact reason why the Christian churches are not able to dump the Old Testament altogether. They could easily do so, and only include the specific verses that Christ pointed to, although if you will notice, he always pointed to them and said "does not your Tanakh say" or something to that effect. In reality he was not agreeing with those text verses, only using it as a tool in which to teach his audience (fellow Jews) what he wished to teach. But if they got rid of the Old Testament in the majority, along with its blood-thirsty and ignorant sections, then we would not need any Church or religious leader to understand the texts, and we could simply meet in small groups and discuss, if we were moved to do so. (whenever two or more are gathered in my name). Yes, that word is always a plural word (Elohim) and yes it has always meant gods, until the commentators decided to artificially add a second meaning of "god". However, if you check its etymology it was never used in any way except in the plural. And cobbled together is a good word. Just as they were "inspired" in their translations, I feel "inspired" to bring the truth of their treachery to light.
 

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