End of Tartaria

0harris0

Well-known member
Messages
120
Reactions
292
So I've been wondering, what happened to Tartaria, and when?
I realise this is a huge and very confusing topic, my thoughts are all over the place but I just wanted to begin a discussion
I know some of you guys will know a lot more about this subject than myself, and I'd like to hear it :)

the main reasons for this post - while reading about the Romanovs, and some russian history, it looks as though the northern stretches of asia were subsumed into Russia (the Tsardom) in the mid-1600s.. well, that's what some sources claim, yet there are still maps of Tartaria even past 1700. (were they simply copying the data from older maps at this point?)

I found this pretty interesting (especially considering Kazan is in Tatarstan)
wiki said:
in 1552, Tsar Ivan the Terrible conquered the city and massacred the majority of the population....
most of the Kazan's Tatar residents were forcibly Christianized or deported
Mosques and palaces were ruined. The surviving Tatar population was moved to a place 50 kilometers (31 mi) away from the city and this place was forcibly settled by Russian farmers and soldiers....
During this period, Kazan was largely destroyed as a result of several great fires.
and the there's the Tatarstan coat of arms:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Coat_of_Arms_of_Tatarstan.svg

curiouser and curiouser :D
 

anotherlayer

Well-known member
Messages
690
Reactions
2,370
OP
0harris0

0harris0

Well-known member
Messages
120
Reactions
292
I just watched it all (on 2x speed) but it's all the stuff that's been posted on here, I did like the way he put the maps in chronological order, would be useful to have a reference page like that.. Also, some sort of list of dates of conflicts in/around Asia + North America from 1500s onwards... there's probably some really big correlations that couuld start to answer more questions... (I might start work on this.. i have a massive "agreed chronology" history book, hopefully provide a lot of nice info on alliances, what was supposedly happening, where etc)

my idea with this thread is sort of bringing all the little bits of evidence into the larger world/chronological picture so let's see what happens :)
 

welkyn

Active member
Messages
38
Reactions
152


I think some of the clues might be in this video, but I'm also of the opinion that whatever caused Tartaria to collapse had its origins earlier than the 18th century. I'm sure we could look for cataclysmic events in the 17th and 16th centuries as well - certainly there seems to be a degree to which "natural phenomena" (volcanoes, earthquakes etc.) had a part to play in the change-over from the "Old World Order" to the "New World Order".


Overall, the idea that food supply and infrastructure might have been hit hard by something (man-made or otherwise) seems pretty strong to me. As we've been looking at e.g. "meteor craters" and the like all across the world, it does seem odd that central Europe is less affected than Africa and Tartaria (incl. the Americas).

I'm going to do a thread on the mud floods, pointing out that there are a few regions in Europe which seem not to have been affected at all, and which display what I consider to be the original architecture of these grand buildings sunk a story or more into the ground.

Whatever the reason, Europe - or at least, European power - was less affected by these "earth changes" than other parts of the world, with the Tartarian expanse seemingly being hit the hardest (well, it's a toss up between Tartaria and Africa). In a situation where the whole world is affected, Europe the least, Tartaria the most, it stands to reason that the degree of work required to rebuild would be considerably greater in eastern Siberia, leading to a mismatch of power between the two sides. Even a 1-200 year advance on the opposition would lead to crippling defeat, as far as technology and infrastructure are concerned.

If we notice that the "colonial period" coincides with the devolution and destruction of Great Tartaria as a state, then we might recognise that "colonialism" is a mask for a real world war - one in which the powers in Europe overcame the struggling relics of recently destroyed civilisations all over the globe/disc/muffin (Africa, Americas, Asia, Australia).


Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter for now. I'm more of the mind that whatever it was that upset the balance so much would have occurred at an earlier date than those suggested in the video above, perhaps coinciding with the "Dark Ages" if we forward-shift them by 800-1,000 years (which I think would line up with Fomenko to some degree). Off the top of my head, volcanic activity, famine, "years without Summer" and the like are supposed to have occurred in the early Dark Ages - if we date that to 1300 to 1700 AD (relative to "2018"), I think that gives us a reasonable window wherein events might pile up to Tartaria's detriment, opening the way for European conquest and the subsequent revision of history.
 

jd755

Well-known member
Messages
804
Reactions
2,174
go look at the pine cone thread in particular the 'watches' worn by 'the muscular chaps' and compare the watches with that coat of arms to spot the connection as it were. here you go
sumer2225.jpg
 
Last edited:

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
752
Reactions
3,236
go look at the pine cone thread in particular the 'watches' worn by 'the muscular chaps' and compare the watches with that coat of arms to spot the connection as it were. here you go
View attachment 15433
I've noticed that the "wristwatch" looks like the round windows in the old churches too, it's a popular symbol. but really it also made me sit up and take notice that on the Tartary Coat of Arms, that identical round symbol and the Lion has wings too, as do all of the Anunnaki with their pinecones, purse and "wristwatch".

round window.JPG

51303004-3d-republic-of-tatarstan-flag-russia-close-up-.jpg
 

jd755

Well-known member
Messages
804
Reactions
2,174
York minster has one. stood staring at and wondering how 'they' did it nevr wondering about who did it, those were the days when the program was running smoothly.
yorkmin.jpg

Quasimodo's place has one.
notre-dame-window-1518964.jpg

And winchester has one in the form of a round table a king arthur 'connection' apparently but watch alan wilson on youtube and becomes clear where the two arthurs actually spent their days.

winchester.jpg

interesting though that the round table mirrors the churches, the tatars, the annanuki and let's not forget the 'chrysanthemum' symbol in japon.

366647933_d99e48605a.jpg
which is also reminiscent of the pinecone.

Chrysanthemum-National-Flower-of-Japan.jpg
Post automatically merged:

As for Kazan the city well what else did one expect but more of the same.
Flying Over the Capital of Tatarstan | English Russia
until yesterday i had no inkling this 'bit' of the 'known'? world existed.
 
Last edited:

dreamtime

Well-known member
Messages
575
Reactions
3,023
Final nail in the coffin was probably in around 1850 east of the Caspian Sea, with the destruction of the remaining Independent Tartary. Although there were probably lots of people there still living in harmony until the Sovjets got there in the beginning of the 20th century.

What makes everything so sad for me is that that there is not a single nation that is able to project a different kind of reality. Instead structurally everything is the same everyhwere, with central banking systems, cultural devolution, etc.

I am sure the end of the old world wasn't due to a big conspiracy of a single entity. Instead, old structures mostly collapsed for multiple reasons, which led to opportunistic leaders and groups emerging to take over everywhere. If Tartary for example was so great and different, they surely wouldn't have been obliterated completely. A big puzzle really is how the PTB gained such a large advantage over the rest so quickly... I mean the operation they pulled off with this global imperial effort is really outstanding... Not only dominating globally, but also making it in invisible way.

And now they are basically at the point where it is up to them to create a "new world order", as most areas are basically in control and the population doesn't remember anymore. How far did they think this through? Where do they want to go with this?

Maybe Tartarian leaders would have done something similar if the entire world was in ruins except Asia?
 

Ice Nine

Well-known member
Messages
752
Reactions
3,236
I just spent an inordinate amount of time looking for that symbol and this is all I could find that even came close, I thought it would ve a common motif, but not so.

Romani (Gypsy) Chakra
The Roma chakra, was adopted in 1971 at the First World Romani Congress as the official symbol of the Roma (“Gypsy”) people, resembles a Hindu Chakra wheel, and not unintentionally. Chosen deliberately to honor the Romani’s Indian heritage, the sixteen spoked wheel adorns the Romani (Romany) flag, and is reminiscent of the wheels of the Vardo, or Wagon, which has served as the home for wandering Romany families for more than a hundred years.The origin of the Roma people has until somewhat recently been shrouded in misinformation and misunderstanding. Historical romantics have asserted their origin to be anything from wandering Egyptian mystics (The appellation “Gypsy” stems from this misunderstanding) to a lost tribe of Hebrews. Anthropological and DNA evidence has since put the factual history of the “gypsies” to rest, but the public has been somewhat slow to follow. Roma or Rom means “people.” Romani people generally refer to themselves by tribal affiliations. Common references like “Gypsy” are considered extremely derogatory and are never used by the Romani to refer to themselves.
 

welkyn

Active member
Messages
38
Reactions
152
I just spent an inordinate amount of time looking for that symbol and this is all I could find that even came close, I thought it would ve a common motif, but not so.

Romani (Gypsy) Chakra
The Roma chakra, was adopted in 1971 at the First World Romani Congress as the official symbol of the Roma (“Gypsy”) people, resembles a Hindu Chakra wheel, and not unintentionally. Chosen deliberately to honor the Romani’s Indian heritage, the sixteen spoked wheel adorns the Romani (Romany) flag, and is reminiscent of the wheels of the Vardo, or Wagon, which has served as the home for wandering Romany families for more than a hundred years.The origin of the Roma people has until somewhat recently been shrouded in misinformation and misunderstanding. Historical romantics have asserted their origin to be anything from wandering Egyptian mystics (The appellation “Gypsy” stems from this misunderstanding) to a lost tribe of Hebrews. Anthropological and DNA evidence has since put the factual history of the “gypsies” to rest, but the public has been somewhat slow to follow. Roma or Rom means “people.” Romani people generally refer to themselves by tribal affiliations. Common references like “Gypsy” are considered extremely derogatory and are never used by the Romani to refer to themselves.
I've literally just read that Scandinavian Travellers are called "Tatere/Tattare", which has caused some people to link them with Tatars. Given that they speak Romani, it might be the case that some (or all?) Romani constitute Tartarian refugees? Romani is an Indo-Aryan language, much like the Scythian language would've been.

Interestingly, in Sweden, "Tattare" is seen as derogatory, but in Norway, "Tatere" is the preferred ethnonym - many travelling folk in Norway call themselves "Tatere" on purpose.
 

sonoman

Well-known member
Messages
312
Reactions
715
many of the circular symbols re present the frequencies of nature and of consciousness, they originate from Pythagoreans and later Cathars. this vid shows some of the hows etc:
the math and sacred geometry in this vid and most others is way off/corrupt though, not intentionally by the publishers but by Archytas and Plato then continued with Aristotle and so from there everyone just subscribed to the previous authorities on these subjects and on and on and now this huge mess everywhere. just yesterday, I wrote (mostly quoted but included links to primary and secondary citations) extensively about this in this post: Etymology of Etymology?
 
Last edited:
OP
0harris0

0harris0

Well-known member
Messages
120
Reactions
292
I think some of the clues might be in this video, but I'm also of the opinion that whatever caused Tartaria to collapse had its origins earlier than the 18th century. I'm sure we could look for cataclysmic events in the 17th and 16th centuries as well - certainly there seems to be a degree to which "natural phenomena" (volcanoes, earthquakes etc.) had a part to play in the change-over from the "Old World Order" to the "New World Order".
that vid was released the day before my post... wish I'd seen it before! very good!

I don't think there's a definite end point, but i think some events (economical, political, as well and global/ cataclysmic things) were huge turning points... like what was happening in the time between certain versions of maps, etc.. then put all of the signposts together!
 

whitewave

Well-known member
Messages
1,570
Reactions
5,065
From everything I've read on this site regarding Tartary (and following the links), it seems that what we're calling Tartary might rather have been the Ottoman Empire. It was a long-lasting and magnificent empire at one time but began to see a gradual decline after the "discovery" of America, the "renaissance" and the industrial revolution. The Crimean war was the last nail in the coffin and, I suspect that WWI mopped up any remains. In the heyday of their 600 year reign they excelled in architecture, science, medicine, art, etc.

There are conflicting descriptions of Tartars. One description of them resembles the magnificent Ottoman empire and the diametrically opposite depiction of them is of cannibals and superstitious savages. As unlikely as it seems, it's possible both descriptions are accurate. Tartary was a big area. It could be that the more advanced Tartars were the adventurers, explorers, pioneers and settlers of the Americas and that the savages were the horse steepe peoples that were so easily conquered (mostly by the Russians). If America was hit with some climactic cataclysm it's possible that even the noble Tartars reverted to savagery (as most people do in a survival situation). Tartary in America and compared to native americans (thanks to BStankman for the link).

This is all conjecture, of course, but that seems to be mainly what we do on this site. :) It would tie a lot of disparate info together, though.
 

Andromeda

Well-known member
Messages
156
Reactions
318
I've literally just read that Scandinavian Travellers are called "Tatere/Tattare", which has caused some people to link them with Tatars. Given that they speak Romani, it might be the case that some (or all?) Romani constitute Tartarian refugees? Romani is an Indo-Aryan language, much like the Scythian language would've been.

Interestingly, in Sweden, "Tattare" is seen as derogatory, but in Norway, "Tatere" is the preferred ethnonym - many travelling folk in Norway call themselves "Tatere" on purpose.
Spent many years living in Norway and "tatere" has the same derogatory meaning as "tattare" in Sweden.

"Tatere/Tattare" is not commonly used any longer, but we may use it if we swear at someone we are angry at for example:

"Din jävla tattare!" = "You fucking gypsie!"
 

whitewave

Well-known member
Messages
1,570
Reactions
5,065
Another site written by a John Frampton 1577-1596 gives a lengthy description of the Tartars and their appearance, manners, customs, lifestyle, beliefs. Very enlightening (if it is to be believed).

There's also this about the first king of the Tartars and a hurricane in 1628 but it's in German (?). Maybe those who are able to translate can see if it has anything of interest in it?
 
Last edited:

whitewave

Well-known member
Messages
1,570
Reactions
5,065
I'm reading through the whole thing and, as anotherlayer pointed out, the information on the following page concerning the Sythians is equally informative. Apparently there was a tribe of werewolves! They're not called as such but "There are others called Neuros, which vse the maners and lawes of the Sci∣thians. These were constrayned to leaue their countrey one yeare before the conquest of king Darius, by reason of the multitude of Serpentes that breede in it. They holde for a certaine trueth, and sweare, that euery yeare in certeine dayes they were conuer∣ted into Wolues, and afterwarde returned into the forme and shape that they were first of."

Well that was short and sweet. He talks about lands that have mer people, lands that have unicorns, lands that have, what seemed to be, pterodactyls in that they were described as birds that are large enough to pick up elephants, carry them into the air, drop them and eat them at their leisure. He does mention areas that sound very much like what we associate with Tartary but puts their location more to the East and South into India. Parts of Africa that he described were very rich and marvelously built with people that lived to 150-300 years.
 
Last edited:

JustWow

Active member
Messages
37
Reactions
113


I think some of the clues might be in this video, but I'm also of the opinion that whatever caused Tartaria to collapse had its origins earlier than the 18th century. I'm sure we could look for cataclysmic events in the 17th and 16th centuries as well - certainly there seems to be a degree to which "natural phenomena" (volcanoes, earthquakes etc.) had a part to play in the change-over from the "Old World Order" to the "New World Order".


Overall, the idea that food supply and infrastructure might have been hit hard by something (man-made or otherwise) seems pretty strong to me. As we've been looking at e.g. "meteor craters" and the like all across the world, it does seem odd that central Europe is less affected than Africa and Tartaria (incl. the Americas).

I'm going to do a thread on the mud floods, pointing out that there are a few regions in Europe which seem not to have been affected at all, and which display what I consider to be the original architecture of these grand buildings sunk a story or more into the ground.

Whatever the reason, Europe - or at least, European power - was less affected by these "earth changes" than other parts of the world, with the Tartarian expanse seemingly being hit the hardest (well, it's a toss up between Tartaria and Africa). In a situation where the whole world is affected, Europe the least, Tartaria the most, it stands to reason that the degree of work required to rebuild would be considerably greater in eastern Siberia, leading to a mismatch of power between the two sides. Even a 1-200 year advance on the opposition would lead to crippling defeat, as far as technology and infrastructure are concerned.

If we notice that the "colonial period" coincides with the devolution and destruction of Great Tartaria as a state, then we might recognise that "colonialism" is a mask for a real world war - one in which the powers in Europe overcame the struggling relics of recently destroyed civilisations all over the globe/disc/muffin (Africa, Americas, Asia, Australia).


Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter for now. I'm more of the mind that whatever it was that upset the balance so much would have occurred at an earlier date than those suggested in the video above, perhaps coinciding with the "Dark Ages" if we forward-shift them by 800-1,000 years (which I think would line up with Fomenko to some degree). Off the top of my head, volcanic activity, famine, "years without Summer" and the like are supposed to have occurred in the early Dark Ages - if we date that to 1300 to 1700 AD (relative to "2018"), I think that gives us a reasonable window wherein events might pile up to Tartaria's detriment, opening the way for European conquest and the subsequent revision of history.
I had watched the above video on YT and then did some digging to see what I could find about Alexander I (A) and Napoleon (NB) because I had already heard the theory that the destruction of Moscow in 1810 (or there about) was really about A and NB teaming up against Tartaria- which is why NB went to Moscow and not St. Petersburg. I found this article about A and NB Alexander I - napoleon.org (It is not a long read and I recommend it with the caveat that it is written by a mainstream historian) This sentence jumped out at me : "June 1803, Talleyrand even suggested that both Russia and France carry out a common intervention in the Orient and share Turkey between them." Could this be a vague hint as to what REALLY happened - if A and NB joined together to fight against Tartaria? Who knows?
The most interesting thing I found was this: "In1825, as he was just preparing to travel to Crimea, the Tsar was informed of a plot against the throne, to which he replied: “It is not up to me to take action!” He died of a malign fever in Taganrog, at the beginning of December 1825. Rumours have it that he survived under the name of Staretz Kuzmich in Siberia, but there has been no evidence to confirm it." I looked up Staretz Kuzmich and found quite a few web pages talking about this theory. Even Wiki has an interesting blurp about Feodor Kuzmich (please go and read it).
So, isn't it interesting that Alexander was guilt ridden about the murder of his father and possibly ends up in exile in Siberia of all places. I wonder what else he could have felt guilty about and if he went to live among the people that he had once tried to destroy.
 

asatiger1966

Well-known member
Messages
235
Reactions
1,094
I had watched the above video on YT and then did some digging to see what I could find about Alexander I (A) and Napoleon (NB) because I had already heard the theory that the destruction of Moscow in 1810 (or there about) was really about A and NB teaming up against Tartaria- which is why NB went to Moscow and not St. Petersburg. I found this article about A and NB Alexander I - napoleon.org (It is not a long read and I recommend it with the caveat that it is written by a mainstream historian) This sentence jumped out at me : "June 1803, Talleyrand even suggested that both Russia and France carry out a common intervention in the Orient and share Turkey between them." Could this be a vague hint as to what REALLY happened - if A and NB joined together to fight against Tartaria? Who knows?
The most interesting thing I found was this: "In1825, as he was just preparing to travel to Crimea, the Tsar was informed of a plot against the throne, to which he replied: “It is not up to me to take action!” He died of a malign fever in Taganrog, at the beginning of December 1825. Rumours have it that he survived under the name of Staretz Kuzmich in Siberia, but there has been no evidence to confirm it." I looked up Staretz Kuzmich and found quite a few web pages talking about this theory. Even Wiki has an interesting blurp about Feodor Kuzmich (please go and read it).
So, isn't it interesting that Alexander was guilt ridden about the murder of his father and possibly ends up in exile in Siberia of all places. I wonder what else he could have felt guilty about and if he went to live among the people that he had once tried to destroy.
Rule One: everything is a lie, all other rules see rule one.

If Russia and France carried out a common intervention on whomever it did not go well and all three met at Moscow, 1812.

The unknown force maybe was destroyed sometime later? But like all unknown forces they change their name and address , stay low for a while then back in business, what ever that was.

Napoleons tactical history and those of hundreds of experienced Generals says the mistakes, history calls out, could not have happened in the manner described. For starters over 400,000 of Napoleon's soldiers survived.
See map below, most of his army were not French.

It is not clear to me who this "Tartaria" was. I suspect that a coalition of countries similar to Napoleon's, some with more advanced technology than others and defiantly more than Europe.

A Lieutenant Mertens , a Wurttemberger serving with Ney's III corps gave an account of the event at Moscow.
Its been a long time ago and my mind is running slow, but his comment went similar to the following.

"Upon entering Moscow it started to rain then an explosion as bright as the sun happened above Moscow. The brilliant light lasted just a few seconds, then fire rushed from the light towards us. We abandoned the city and headed home. As we traveled the horses hair and that of the men started to fall out. the horses were hit hard by this aliment. All manner of unknown sickness befell the Army and the men were dying spiting up blood.

I think Ney's III corps was the rearguard coming out of Moscow.

One might still find this comment , but I have noticed a scrubbing of some of the narratives.

So we come to another question? What was Napoleon really looking to find in Egypt?


Update:

Another memory just popped in LOL.
There were a number of surgeons working with Napoleons Army, numerous accounts were written about the amazing cure rate of the wounded. Amputation survival rates went way up leaving the patients remarkably healthy, even though deprived of food and clean conditions to live in.

We were retraining on field medicine when this information was shared with the unit. We were more amazed at this occurrence that the bright light explosion. Something in Moscow was causing incredible wound healing properties.

Keep looking its there probably just moved to an obscure location. Maybe warehouse 13?
 

Attachments

Last edited:

Top