Dotaku (Ritual Bronze Bells from Japan) as unknown technology

dreamtime

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#1
Just found this when looking for ancient copper tech.

Dōtaku
(銅鐸) are Japanese bells smelted from relatively thin bronze and richly decorated.
Dotaku were used for about 400 years, between the second century B.C. and the second century C.E. (corresponding to the end of the Yayoi era), and were nearly only used as decorations for rituals[citation needed]. They were richly decorated with patterns representing nature and animals, among which the dragonfly, praying mantis and spider are featured. Historians believe that dōtaku were used to pray for good harvests, as the animals featured are natural enemies of insect pests that attack paddy fields.
dotaku.gif

Historians seem to be pretty sure those things were bells. But there's a problem. They were never found in cities, but in remote regions, and often crowded together, with dozens buried in the ground.

Historians wouldn't be historians if they didn't come up with a solid explanation: People obviously buried the bells to increase the fertility of the ground.

They are often "found buried on isolated hillsides" either ‘singly, [in] pairs, or in large groups" along with various bronze mirrors and weapons.

We are told people were just throwing away costly devices in large numbers for the sake of religion or whatever.

Historians speculate they were buried "in the ground to receive Earth’s life force", whatever that means.

Some alternate theories include dotaku being used as "a sundial, producing gold, heating water for bathing, or related to secret Jewish practices", although these explanations have little support within the mainstream archaeological community.
I think no one really knows, and the design of the device strongly suggests it was something different than a bell, because the area where the rope would go in appears to be a bit thin and fragile:

datoku2.png

Here's a Japanese Researcher on Youtube who thinks it has something to do with astronomy and questions the mainstream archeologists.

Here's what else is strange:

- No clappers have ever been found. There are no clappers, but we are told it's a bell.
- The bottom seems to look like this

datoku3.png

Multiple layers are confirmed:

Regardless of region, burials of dotaku bells have some things in common — placing smaller bells inside larger bells and burying the nested bells with the fin (decorative plate) set in an upright position.
Talk about jumping to conclusions. Anyway, to me this strongly suggests the original purpose could have been in the conscious burying in the ground, and in fact the "bells" were not placed inside "larger bells", but it seems this device consisted of several layers that could have served the purpose of separating a material that was inside.

Its also important to think in other directions without assuming those things were buried originally. After all, everything that archeologists find is buried, independent of function and purpose. Maybe next time they find a buried house, historians tell us our ancestors buried it to increase fertility too.

- The flat top part is always entirely flat, and there are openings as well.
- There are small quadratic openings at the bottom - could be an opening for some form of material slowly going from the inside to the outside or something else entirely, but something went through it or was connected to it, because there are openings on the top, and the bottom.

But what could it have been? The holes on top, as well as the 'carrying loop' would have served a practical purpose, I am pretty confident about that.

Here's my preliminary idea: People put those things into the ground so that the ground closes up with the flat surface of the device. Then they filled some stuff into this, which slowly over many days/weeks seeped into the surrounding earth, doing something good for the plants. The flat top part is flat, because it's the best design when putting it into the earth. The thin top looks out of the ground, so that people can easily see where they had buried the devices. The holes are for putting the material into it, if replenishment is needed. The hole in the middle was necessary to pull it out of the ground again, for example with a rope.

Doesn't explain the bronze mirrors and weapons unfortunately. Could the "mirrors" be connected to the Dotaku devices?

Reports:

- The latest find of seven dotaku bells from Awajishima Island pushes back date for the practice of burying bronze bells earlier by a century
- High-tech inspired insights into Japan's ancient 'Kofun' burial mounds
 
Last edited:

UnusualBean

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#2
Most Japanese people didn't really rely on crops as a significant part of their diet in ancient times, so the theory about the objects being for soil fertility seems unlikely. That said, here's my hot take:

銅 is "copper", nothing really interesting to see there.

鐸 is... unknown. This word just seems to be "a type of bell", and when you look it up in image searches you mostly get random people who have the character in their name, pictures of the character written down, and pictures of ancient bell-like objects.

Focusing in on it written down, it seems like the character was originally two characters, which isn't all that surprising considering this absolute unit has a whopping 21 strokes today. Wew lad.

If we break the character down into its two obvious parts, we get 金 and 睪.

金 currently means "metal" or "gold", but in the past it meant "copper", and I think that's the obvious choice here.

睪 can apparently mean "testicle" in modern usage, which could be where the theory about soil fertility comes from. However, if we break it down into separate parts we get "net" and "joy/luck/prosperity". Not really sure how that comes together to mean "testicle", but then again another modern word for testicle is "gold ball" so... yeah.

金睪 could be a "copper net of prosperity", or an object to find ("produce") gold or other precious metals.


I skimmed the OP video and I don't really agree with his theory, but if you wanna see the "weapons" you can look at 30:45. I don't know much about swords, but a handle-less sword the shape and size of a feather seems about as intimidating as an angry kitten if you ask me... :censored:
 

BStankman

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#3
They look like ornate cowbells to me.
cowbell.jpg

They would be buried in the pasture, because that is where they fell off the livestock.
The missing dinger is a mystery. But it could have just been wood and string that rotted away.
Or they they could have been doing Pavlovian behavior modification.

Would be very interested to see if the copper came from Minnesota.
 

UnusualBean

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#4
They look like ornate cowbells to me.
View attachment 14825

They would be buried in the pasture, because that is where they fell off the livestock.
The missing dinger is a mystery. But it could have just been wood and string that rotted away.
Or they they could have been doing Pavlovian behavior modification.

Would be very interested to see if the copper came from Minnesota.
Those cows would've had to have been the size of elephants, and even with Japan possibly having been larger in the past I'm not sure the topography could support such a creature...
 
OP
OP
dreamtime

dreamtime

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#5
Most Japanese people didn't really rely on crops as a significant part of their diet in ancient times, so the theory about the objects being for soil fertility seems unlikely. That said, here's my hot take:

銅 is "copper", nothing really interesting to see there.

鐸 is... unknown. This word just seems to be "a type of bell", and when you look it up in image searches you mostly get random people who have the character in their name, pictures of the character written down, and pictures of ancient bell-like objects.

Focusing in on it written down, it seems like the character was originally two characters, which isn't all that surprising considering this absolute unit has a whopping 21 strokes today. Wew lad.

If we break the character down into its two obvious parts, we get 金 and 睪.

金 currently means "metal" or "gold", but in the past it meant "copper", and I think that's the obvious choice here.

睪 can apparently mean "testicle" in modern usage, which could be where the theory about soil fertility comes from. However, if we break it down into separate parts we get "net" and "joy/luck/prosperity". Not really sure how that comes together to mean "testicle", but then again another modern word for testicle is "gold ball" so... yeah.

金睪 could be a "copper net of prosperity", or an object to find ("produce") gold or other precious metals.


I skimmed the OP video and I don't really agree with his theory, but if you wanna see the "weapons" you can look at 30:45. I don't know much about swords, but a handle-less sword the shape and size of a feather seems about as intimidating as an angry kitten if you ask me... :censored:
Hmm, that's interesting. That function ('producing gold') was mentioned on wikipedia.

Whatever it is, it was quite a practical thing, and one small aspect of a forgotten civilization. I feel the 'mirrors' (which look more like base plates for this device) and the 'swords' are connected to those bells and we are looking at some form of machine sceleton.
 

BStankman

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#6
Those cows would've had to have been the size of elephants, and even with Japan possibly having been larger in the past I'm not sure the topography could support such a creature...
How big are these swords then?

2037881199fa4c1e70fadd1663a75695--yayoi-era-shimane.jpg

It looks like someone remembered where the copper came from.
Bell of Two Friends, Dotaku (Japanese Bell) - Bells on Waymarking.com

4095c172-7665-4c3b-8cb8-bd6acddc26af.JPG

Quick Description: A very interesting (but not very interesting-sounding) bell on Nicollet Island in Minneapolis, MN

Very interesting bridge built there in 1865.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Hennepin_Avenue_Bridge_1865.jpg

Makes me wonder what the true reason for the Japanese Americans internment in 1942.
 

ScottFreeman

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#9
All this looking at towers and minarets as something else entirely made me wonder if those couldn't be an insulated ground of some sort. Or, that a traditional bell in a tower, configured the right way, could be used to bleed excess atmospheric electricity into a ground circuit. Used regularly it might seem like churches being...churches.
 

asatiger1966

Well-known member
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#10
Just found this when looking for ancient copper tech.

Dōtaku


Historians seem to be pretty sure those things were bells. But there's a problem. They were never found in cities, but in remote regions, and often crowded together, with dozens buried in the ground.

Historians wouldn't be historians if they didn't come up with a solid explanation: People obviously buried the bells to increase the fertility of the ground.

They are often "found buried on isolated hillsides" either ‘singly, [in] pairs, or in large groups" along with various bronze mirrors and weapons.

We are told people were just throwing away costly devices in large numbers for the sake of religion or whatever.

Historians speculate they were buried "in the ground to receive Earth’s life force", whatever that means.

Some alternate theories include dotaku being used as "a sundial, producing gold, heating water for bathing, or related to secret Jewish practices", although these explanations have little support within the mainstream archaeological community.
I think no one really knows, and the design of the device strongly suggests it was something different than a bell, because the area where the rope would go in appears to be a bit thin and fragile:

Here's a Japanese Researcher on Youtube who thinks it has something to do with astronomy and questions the mainstream archeologists.

Here's what else is strange:

- No clappers have ever been found. There are no clappers, but we are told it's a bell.
- The bottom seems to look like this

Multiple layers are confirmed:

Regardless of region, burials of dotaku bells have some things in common — placing smaller bells inside larger bells and burying the nested bells with the fin (decorative plate) set in an upright position.
Talk about jumping to conclusions. Anyway, to me this strongly suggests the original purpose could have been in the conscious burying in the ground, and in fact the "bells" were not placed inside "larger bells", but it seems this device consisted of several layers that could have served the purpose of separating a material that was inside.

Its also important to think in other directions without assuming those things were buried originally. After all, everything that archeologists find is buried, independent of function and purpose. Maybe next time they find a buried house, historians tell us our ancestors buried it to increase fertility too.

- The flat top part is always entirely flat, and there are openings as well.
- There are small quadratic openings at the bottom - could be an opening for some form of material slowly going from the inside to the outside or something else entirely, but something went through it or was connected to it, because there are openings on the top, and the bottom.

But what could it have been? The holes on top, as well as the 'carrying loop' would have served a practical purpose, I am pretty confident about that.

Here's my preliminary idea: People put those things into the ground so that the ground closes up with the flat surface of the device. Then they filled some stuff into this, which slowly over many days/weeks seeped into the surrounding earth, doing something good for the plants. The flat top part is flat, because it's the best design when putting it into the earth. The thin top looks out of the ground, so that people can easily see where they had buried the devices. The holes are for putting the material into it, if replenishment is needed. The hole in the middle was necessary to pull it out of the ground again, for example with a rope.

Doesn't explain the bronze mirrors and weapons unfortunately. Could the "mirrors" be connected to the Dotaku devices?

Reports:

- The latest find of seven dotaku bells from Awajishima Island pushes back date for the practice of burying bronze bells earlier by a century
- High-tech inspired insights into Japan's ancient 'Kofun' burial mounds

My first thought was landing devices. Fort Benning Georgia has the Pathfinder school. They teach small teams of paratroopers to drop on a target at night before the main force lands in the morning. They put down markers, outlining the safe areas to drop troops and land with supplies along with light equipment. The equipment went from colored lights in WWII and now multi color lazes that are invisible to the men on the ground.

The design of the bells suggest a capacitor or and magnetite anomaly. that could be located using superior technology. The bells buried down 5-10 feet could easily produce a force field that would be noticeable from the air.Where the bells were found, is there something in common between the sites. Were they all on mountain tops? Was different filler material used in the bells?

Just food for thought. Below is my units equipment used in Normandy.

Pathfinder-600x603   Unit Profile  Pathfinders.jpg bloc-batteries-ppn7.jpg 508th Parachute Infantry Regiment.jpg images  eureka beacon.jpg
PPN2 open- PPN2 eureka beacon.JPG Materiel PF.jpg pathfinder-pathch The First Into France – Meet the Elite.jpg
 

BStankman

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#11
Or, that a traditional bell in a tower, configured the right way, could be used to bleed excess atmospheric electricity into a ground circuit. Used regularly it might seem like churches being...churches.
Maybe we have stumbled on to something here.
William Reicht orgone accumulator has three components.
Copper pipe, organic matter, and quartz.

Bezoar and Gastrolith (stomach stone or gizzard stone) are present in animals that grind plant matter.
 

VoidTrancer

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#12
Maybe we have stumbled on to something here.
William Reicht orgone accumulator has three components.
Copper pipe, organic matter, and quartz.

Bezoar and Gastrolith (stomach stone or gizzard stone) are present in animals that grind plant matter.
You have a source for the components of the Orgone Accumulator. Read a while back that Reicht’s didn’t discover orgone, he was an occultist who read and translated ancient texts and re-discovered orgone, the ancient energy.
Funny how just recently as 2017-2018 the US government is trying to erase and suppress Orgone and any reading or research material related to this field.
Also of note was that Reicht sought the aid of Einstein who at first agreed with and supported WR. It was only after word got out that the two were working together Einstein was called into a meeting and told he was not to Help this man, and to aid in his discreditstion.
 

Casimir

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#13
It was only after word got out that the two were working together Einstein was called into a meeting and told he was not to Help this man, and to aid in his discreditstion.
Very interesting, do we have a source for this tidbit? Wiki spins it a certain way, of course.
--------------------
In December 1940 Reich wrote to Albert Einstein saying he had a scientific discovery he wanted to discuss, and, in January 1941, visited Einstein at his home in Princeton, where they talked for nearly five hours. He told Einstein that he had discovered a "specific biologically effective energy which behaves in many respects differently to all that is known about electromagnetic energy". He said it could be used against disease, and as a weapon "in the fight against the Fascist pestilence". (Einstein had signed a letter to President Roosevelt in August 1939 to warn of the danger of Nazi Germany building an atom bomb, and had urged the United States to establish its own research project.) Einstein agreed that if an object's temperature could be raised without an apparent heating source, as Reich was suggesting, it would be "a bomb".

Reich was much encouraged by the meeting and hoped he would be invited to join Princeton's Institute for Advanced Study. During their next meeting, he gave Einstein a small accumulator, and over the next 10 days Einstein performed experiments with it in his basement, which involved taking the temperature above, inside and near the device, and stripping it down to its Faraday cage to compare temperatures. He observed an increase of temperature, which Reich argued was caused by orgone. One of Einstein's assistants pointed out that the temperature was lower on the floor than on the ceiling. Einstein concluded that the effect was simply due to the temperature gradient inside the room. "Through these experiments I regard the matter as completely solved", he wrote to Reich on 7 February 1941.

Reich responded with a 25-page letter in which he tried to change Einstein's mind.To rule out the influence of convection he told Einstein that he had taken certain measures, including introducing a horizontal plate above the accumulator, wrapping it in a blanket, hanging it from the ceiling, burying it underground and placing it outside. He wrote that in all these circumstances the temperature difference remained, and was in fact more marked in the open air. Einstein did not respond to this or to Reich's future correspondence - Reich would write regularly reporting the results of his experiments—until Reich threatened three years later to publish their previous exchange. Einstein replied that he could not devote any further time to the matter and asked that his name not be misused for advertising purposes. Reich believed that Einstein's change of heart was part of a conspiracy of some kind, perhaps related to the communists or prompted by the rumours that Reich was ill. Reich published the correspondence in 1953 as The Einstein Affair.
 
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