Did Ancients not have the same sense of empathy we do?

tupperaware

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About hormesis in general, I agree with this guy:


I know, he's a bit controversial ...
Some medieval aristocrats took small dose of arsenic, to survive poisoning attempts.
Apart from surviving a possible assasination, it surely not helped their health, or prolonged their life.
Scientific studies do have a use in today's world of "science". I just got back from a weekend of spa therapy. You know, the kind with hot and dry sauna's and the usual hot and cold pools. This place had hot, cool and cold pools. Useful for cycling from cold to hot pool temperatures. My goal was to do some body shock to create what are called heat shock proteins.

Any time cold or heat is elevated heat shock proteins are created. Heat shock protein - Wikipedia

"Heat shock proteins (HSP) are a family of proteins that are produced by cells in response to exposure to stressful conditions. They were first described in relation to heat shock,[1] but are now known to also be expressed during other stresses including exposure to cold,[2] UV light,[3] and during wound healing or tissue remodeling.[4] Many members of this group perform chaperone function by stabilizing new proteins to ensure correct folding or by helping to refold proteins that were damaged by the cell stress.[5] This increase in expression is transcriptionally regulated. The dramatic upregulation of the heat shock proteins is a key part of the heat shock response and is induced primarily by heat shock factor (HSF).[6] HSPs are found in virtually all living organisms, from bacteria to humans. "

Whenever you eat Indian food my guess is you are in your comfort zone and benefiting by that little intake of turmeric - perhaps more so than the Indians who eat it everyday. That is hormesis in action.
 

UnusualBean

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About hormesis in general, I agree with this guy:


I know, he's a bit controversial ...
Some medieval aristocrats took small dose of arsenic, to survive poisoning attempts.
Apart from surviving a possible assasination, it surely not helped their health, or prolonged their life.
I think there is some validity to the idea of hormesis, but people expect the line between "helpful" and "harmful" to be way higher than it actually is, and so they just end up slowly poisoning themselves. They do that with the concept of "moderation", too. "Moderation means only 10% of my calories from pure sugar, right??"


...I just realized this is not the thread I thought it was and we're getting very off topic, oops :censored: Maybe somebody should make a dedicated ancestral diet topic? I was planning to before, but I got busier and now I'm lagging behind on info gathering.
 

tupperaware

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I think there is some validity to the idea of hormesis, but people expect the line between "helpful" and "harmful" to be way higher than it actually is, and so they just end up slowly poisoning themselves. They do that with the concept of "moderation", too. "Moderation means only 10% of my calories from pure sugar, right??"


...I just realized this is not the thread I thought it was and we're getting very off topic, oops :censored: Maybe somebody should make a dedicated ancestral diet topic? I was planning to before, but I got busier and now I'm lagging behind on info gathering.
We need an ancestral diet topic! The connection to stolen history is twofold. The first is the possibility that some previous civilization perfected hormesis and other life extension techniques to live 500 years or more. Their culture could have been amazingly different from ours simply because of their great longevity. The other is we are now starting to extend human lifespan perhaps exponentially and with disastrous results. Those that perfected extreme longevity thousands of years ago might be the puppeteers getting ready to reset us the Pinocchios.

pinnoccio 22.png
 
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codis

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IMHO nutrition is tightly related to our ancestors, and to their mental setup.
One thing that stroke me as odd: many ex-vegans report a severe brainfog after some while on a plant-based diet. See sv3rige's and others ex-vegan interviews. I would really wonder if this "side effect" had gone unnoticed for centuries. Peasants and line workers don't need much brains.
 

Andromeda

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I’m vegan and has been it longer than a decade

What most vegans do wrong is that they choose to chew leaves instead of nuts If I may speculate
 

Verity

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It's such a highly-charged political and personal grenade it seems.
It's hard to have a rational, logical conversation with those who (for the ironic reason that we discuss traditional diets in the first place) are not on traditional diets, a catch-22.
That said, if folks hadn't been having hard conversations about trad.diet I'd never have become well.
Personally I'd love to see a thread. Going back in to past wisdom on that subject changed my life for the better.
Come to think of it, I'd love to start a thread on iodine too, a 10,000yr old medicine which was subverted in the early 1900's and again, subverted even more deeply in the 1960's.
Getting the brain cranking along optimally is one of the most significant things we can do right now.
 

Andromeda

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Come to think of it, I'd love to start a thread on iodine too, a 10,000yr old medicine which was subverted in the early 1900's and again, subverted even more deeply in the 1960's.
Getting the brain cranking along optimally is one of the most significant things we can do right now.
I only drink sourced mineral water because I suspect tap water is not nearly as much ionized as mineral water, but I may be wrong and still I see no reason to trust any governments on Earth as they lie to us daily so there isn’t a good reason to drink tap water either I think.
 

Ruby Rhod

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Here's your ancestral nutrition.
The Story of Civilization Vol III said:
Polybius marveled at the abundance and cheapness of food in ancient Italy, and suggested that the quantity and quality of its crops might be judged from the vigor and courage of its men. Alfieri thought that the "man-plant" had flourished better in Italy than anywhere else.
Food in camp was simple: bread or porridge, some vegetables, sour wine, rarely flesh; the Roman army conquered the world on a vegetarian diet; Caesar's troops complained when corn ran out and they had to eat meat.
In the third century B.C. the menu of the average Roman was still simple: breakfast (ientaculum) of bread with honey or olives or cheese; luncheon (prandium) and dinner (cena) of grains, vegetables, and fruit; only the rich ate fish or meat.
And, in the time of Cato, 234-149...
As physical exertion diminished and wealth expanded, the old simple diet gave way to long and heavy meals of meat, game, delicacies, and condiments.
Paleo people, please realize that the corn and wheat of today is not the same as it was then. Those crops have been ruined in the modern world.
 

Ruby Rhod

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Ah, did not think of that. Apparently, the word "corn," used to (and still does in British English?) mean simply "seed grain."
SuperTrouper said:
Of course, this is if we are to believe The Story of Civilization, which is quite difficult when we consider this.
You have to be careful not to fall deep into the wrong rabbit hole. I run parallel models if there is uncertainty.
 

whitewave

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Do they not differentiate between maize and other seed grains or are all seed grains called "corn"? Were they always called that?

See, I think the writers of false history are not necessarily historians and they tend to not know certain things or overlook little details that make discrediting their documents much easier.

There are certain verses in the old testament that mention things that only came about in the so-called middle ages so either the translations are seriously flawed for those verses or (portions of) the old testament was written much later than we're told.
 

Verity

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Ah, did not think of that. Apparently, the word "corn," used to (and still does in British English?) mean simply "seed grain."

You have to be careful not to fall deep into the wrong rabbit hole. I run parallel models if there is uncertainty.
I remember someone once quoted from an ancient source- sorry no idea where/what/when but memory suggests biblical or Shakespearean.
It stated that bread was an old term which (originally) meant meat.
 
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Ruby Rhod

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It stated that bread was an old term which (originally) meant meat.
If that is so, it would really complicate things. Phantom time and Pompeii pineapples is enough to sort out as is. I recall reading another tale about how Romans ended up eating a lot of meat in German lands and they had trouble with it. The Germans apparently always had a meat-heavy diet which served them quite well. This could be a genetic/gut bacteria difference. Digestion is my a weak point, but I find that fermented foods (huge temporary gut bacteria boost) like sauerkraut make meat far easier to digest.

Presently, we are well aware that many people cannot tolerate milk products, many Asians have difficulty with alcohol, etc. I do not think it is worth arguing for any "one fits all" diet.
 

codis

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If that is so, it would really complicate things. Phantom time and Pompeii pineapples is enough to sort out as is. I recall reading another tale about how Romans ended up eating a lot of meat in German lands and they had trouble with it. The Germans apparently always had a meat-heavy diet which served them quite well. This could be a genetic/gut bacteria difference. Digestion is my a weak point, but I find that fermented foods (huge temporary gut bacteria boost) like sauerkraut make meat far easier to digest.

Presently, we are well aware that many people cannot tolerate milk products, many Asians have difficulty with alcohol, etc. I do not think it is worth arguing for any "one fits all" diet.
Difficult, indeed.
But let me tell this:
Today's milk is not really milk. Paseurization or, even worse, "homogenization" make it into an indigestible mass, unrecognizeable by our gut bacteria. Check reports from people experimenting with raw milk.

... Romans ended up eating a lot of meat in German lands and they had trouble with it.
As many reports show, and as I can confirm from own experience - you can change your "setup", i.e. your gut bacteria.
When changing your diet, the metabolic system needs 3 to 4 weeks to fully adapt.
After my very unsuccessful vegan episode 5 years ago, I started a carnivore experiment in december last year. It took me three weeks to adapt, but my health has significantly improved since. I can now digest at least twice as much meat before (as omnivore) even with significant fat content. As a "downside", I have now trouble to cope with more than tiny amount of vegetables or tubers, they give me cramps, bloating, and other digestive issues.
Except for aged cheese, dairy provokes digestive issues, too. All of the products available here are from pasteurized milk.
 

UnusualBean

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Basically the bacteria present in raw milk break down a lot of the lactose, which allows even people with low lactase production to drink it without getting... ill effects :poop:... The same result can be achieved through fermentation, which is why a lot of people do alright with yogurt or aged cheese even if they're made from pasteurized dairy. There are also other types of milk that are lower in lactose than today's cow's milk.

When it comes to alcohol, it's possible that Asians don't handle it so well now because they're eating a very different diet from what they used to only a handful of generations ago. The traditional diets of the region were very rich with animal fat, which is known to drastically reduce the negative effects of alcohol. Now they eat more starchy and green diets with cheap vegetable oils instead of the butter or lard they thrived on before.
 

codis

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Having about 1/3 to 1/2 pint of yoghurt, kefir or cottage cheese each day starts to produce "unpleasant" results after about a week.
Pasteurization kills most of the bacteria, which keeps it from decomposing (which reminds me on mummies ...). I remember my childhood, when milk turned sour after about 3 days, even in the fridge.

Regarding Asians and alcohol, I have no experience. But you might be true. A Russian custom is to eat beacon (blubber ?) with vodka.
As with most poisons, there is a relation to body mass, a fact which which disfavors me too (I'm about 120 lbs).
But OTOH, getting drunk becomes cheaper ...
 

tupperaware

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Having about 1/3 to 1/2 pint of yoghurt, kefir or cottage cheese each day starts to produce "unpleasant" results after about a week.
Pasteurization kills most of the bacteria, which keeps it from decomposing (which reminds me on mummies ...). I remember my childhood, when milk turned sour after about 3 days, even in the fridge.

Regarding Asians and alcohol, I have no experience. But you might be true. A Russian custom is to eat beacon (blubber ?) with vodka.
As with most poisons, there is a relation to body mass, a fact which which disfavors me too (I'm about 120 lbs).
But OTOH, getting drunk becomes cheaper ...

For the best in alcohol efficiency I heard that taking BHT- butylated hydroxytoluene at the same time greatly magnifies the effect. Interestingly, not too long ago it was thought nothing but an evil food additive/preservative. Then people found out it kills lipid coated viruses dead like Hepatitus C, Herpes Simplex etc. It also extends the lifespan of c. elegans (nematodes) 40%. Then BHT was discovered to be "natural" in two plants and some plankton. BHT Occurs Naturally in a Medicinal Plant.

I think its possible that shamans all over the world at one time, might have distributed - amongst themselves - esoteric herbal information. Including info on substances that can alter inherited characteristics via epigenetics where the DNA molecule is altered chemically by consuming these herbs and those affects will be permanent as long as the materials continue to be consumed. In other words, shamans could have known how to keep a culture locked into useful mind states knowing that their concoctions properly mixed and administered would alter the behaviour of newborns as well as the mother.

Immortality, the Elixir of Life and the Food of the Gods

Soma (drink) - Wikipedia
"Soma is a Vedic Sanskrit word that literally means "distill, extract, sprinkle", often connected in the context of rituals.[4]"

Homeopathy may just be the residue of ancient shamanic knowledge where Shamans knew the art of the "sprinkle" which is a very hormetic concept.

Currently one of the safest ways to extend lifespan in almost any animal is to extend "neoteny" Neoteny in humans - Wikipedia.
My guess is that Greys might be the result of many generations of humans that were shamanistically altered with just the right "sprinkles" to induce eternal neoteny.
25486
 

codis

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Including info on substances that can alter inherited characteristics via epigenetics where the DNA molecule is altered chemically by consuming these herbs and those affects will be permanent as long as the materials continue to be consumed.
This reminded me somehow of Joe Dispenza ("You are the placebo"), who states such effects could by acheived by mind alone.
A pretty anti-allotropic book and stance, especially from a medic.
I'm pretty sure our ancestors knew this - not only shamans and yogi.
 
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