Cathedrals: Who really built them?

KorbenDallas

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The question is who created all this cover up art, and at whose direction. Well, one of the questions, at least.
 

Onthebit

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I nabbed this off of some touristy website waxing eloquent over the beauty of Italy, and with good reason: look at this detail from one of the cathedrals in Palermo. (I don't know which one.)


How was that made--with hammers and chisels? Was it molded, or laser-cut, or what? It's just mind-boggling that we are told that this was designed and built by the same sort of people who were riding around in horse-drawn wagons, using ropes and pulleys and primitive wooden scaffolds, in a society that was mostly poor people barely able to survive on what their rich landowners allowed them to keep...and they built this?? How, and using what tools? Do any of these guys look capable of creating anything other than rough-hewn logs and brick walls?


This website suggests that if you get enough guys using enough ramps, pulleys, ropes, levers, and wooden wheels, they'll produce a cathedral. And if you get enough monkeys pounding away on enough keyboards, they'll eventually write an article like this.

The sky is the limit: human powered cranes and lifting devices
what if it was possible with enough people who 'wanted' to do something...oh yes!!! Alas; it wouldn't be possible no matter how much you beat your slaves.
 

whitewave

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Such intricate detailed designs require intelligent, educated designers, laborers, those that order materials, overseers, production of raw materials (even if it was just copper chisels-the chisels had to have been manufactured somewhere). Who in those days had the mathematical skill and training to conceive and implement such a design? Where were the schools that trained them? How many unskilled laborers who couldn't write their own name would it take to understand a genius architect even if he were to explain what he wanted built? Even if the unskilled laborers did understand what was required, where did they get the skill to implement the architect's wishes? Where are the stones they screwed up and had to throw out while learning this highly technical skill?

I have dozens of questions.
 

jd755

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Such intricate detailed designs require intelligent, educated designers, laborers, those that order materials, overseers, production of raw materials (even if it was just copper chisels-the chisels had to have been manufactured somewhere). Who in those days had the mathematical skill and training to conceive and implement such a design? Where were the schools that trained them? How many unskilled laborers who couldn't write their own name would it take to understand a genius architect even if he were to explain what he wanted built? Even if the unskilled laborers did understand what was required, where did they get the skill to implement the architect's wishes? Where are the stones they screwed up and had to throw out while learning this highly technical skill?

I have dozens of questions.
The only way I feel there is to get a handle on what we see as opposed to what we are told to see is to disconnect 'the modern way of doing' and 'the ways we have been told they used to do it' from the thinking. Not easy but given the fact we are always being told we are 'little me' who has to be told by 'our better's my guess is it is actually really easy to do, not that I have travelled this path, which is why the constant telling is required, to keep history hidden in plain sight.

All the ornate work is much easier to cast than carve and much easier and more forgiving of a mistake to sculpt a 'wet medium' than carve hard stone.
Single photo: Restoration of missing stonework
 

fabiorem

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An interesting case study would perhaps be the Sagrada Familia in Barcelona. Construction began in 1883, yet stopped for the Spanish Civil War in 1936. Work resumed in the '40's at a terribly slow pace, and continues to this day. To the point, that considering much of the thought that we cannot build like this today would make a lot of logical sense. I will try and do some more research when I have time.

The cathedral is far more architecturally impressive than most modern constructs. Gothic in style. Just have a look at some photos. The other thought that passes through my head is that Iberia / Tartaria, have similar sounding endings, indicating and etymological / cultural link.

The civilization of Tartessos was on Iberia, and it predates the arrival of the celts in that peninsula.
Also, there was another Iberia in the Caucasus, where today is Georgia. The same region also had another Albania.
 
OP
BrokenAgate

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I always resort to the idea that our elaborate buildings were carved out of wood (Bubhagurat, Angkor, et al) and then in some fashion it was petrified instantly. However this type of detail shouldn't even be possible in wood (not by hand, not in the 1700s when at best you had a hand/gear drill. Not without making a mistake at some point. The depth of the patterns is incredible!).

Anyway, I have a much more disturbing feeling when I wonder who sat down and drew this out. Certainly this wasn't freehand and freewheeling, this had to be from a set pattern/design. And who in their right mind turned to the workers and said "check this shit out and YOU are going to build it!"? Who thought such beauty was required for the masses to enjoy? What citizens of such great leadership were blessed to live in such a time?

Something changed.
Closest technique I can think of is laser cutting. Very smooth and precise, just like those carvings.
 

milhaus

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the great arch i techs builders made them

on ley lines

to maximize re sonance

of the earths telepathy network

The Devil's Chord: The conspiracy to open the portal of consciousness and mystery of the octave, page 1

a once great eye magi nation
Thank you for posting that link. I may have read it before but definitely didn't understand it before. This has filled in a ton of blank spots.

Edit: I forgot to mention that this reminds me of that old computer game Loom (1990).


Loom's gameplay centers instead around magical four-note tunes known as "drafts" that the protagonist, Bobbin Threadbare, can play on his distaff. Each draft is a spell that has an effect of a certain type, such as "Opening" or "Night Vision." Some drafts can be reversed by playing their notes backwards, so the "Dye" draft played backwards becomes "Bleach," while others, such as the "Terror" draft, are palindromes (e.g. C–E–E–C) and so cannot be reversed in this manner.

20522
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MaybeLater

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Hey all! I'm late to the party, I know, but it's only been in the past year that I really started pinging on the cathedrals, and contemplating that they are really just as enigmatic as the pyramids and Machu Pichu. While I am accustomed to being lied to by the powers that shouldn't be, I guess there are more layers to the onion than I expected.

It makes absolutely zero sense that people who could barley eek out the most basic sustenance were enscripted to build these amazing structures. A skilled person would have had to have been on the scaffold directing every move of the people doing the work. Like a painter directing the brush strokes of a hundred or more pupils.

Anyway, I am fairly obsessed. Thanks for all the information and rabbit trails! I hope I can contribute.
 

Jim Duyer

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No longer accepting the modern paradigm leaves one free to consider alternative ideas about who did what, and when. Who built the world's cathedrals? Was the Catholic Church really responsible for them, as we have been told?

Cathedral Building in the Middle Ages - Durham World Heritage Site

We are led to believe that these men are building a cathedral. If so, it isn't a very impressive one. They seem to be constructing a primitive tower of some sort, rather than a grand and glorious house for the spirit of the Lord. Putting up images like this in an article about cathedral building is highly disingenuous. We don't really know what this is intended to show, since it has been removed from whatever manuscript it was found in.

How were cathedrals built?

This could be any construction site, really. There's a guy walking in a wheel that's used to pull supplies up from the ground level. Would that work for these top ten tallest church buildings? 10 Tallest Church Buildings In The World - 10 Most Today What a workout that man would get! Glutes of iron for the glory of God!

Europe - Gothic Cathedrals

Look at the details of this architecture. Does it seem like the sort of thing that could have been done in the 800s to 1200s, when we are told that all the cathedral building happened? Does this even remotely resemble the pictures before it, of men laboring to build simple tower structures using wheels and ladders?

Building in the Middle Ages This site is all about cathedral construction techniques, with artists' impressions of what the work sites might have looked like. I guess this would be fine for simpler, smaller churches, but when I look at the Top Ten Tallest, and try to reconcile it with what I see in these drawings, my head just won't accept it.

Here is another image of alleged construction of a church. Tripods of wood for hoisting cut stones that were dragged to the site by horses and oxen, man-powered lifting wheels, wooden cranes.... Sorry, I just don't buy it.

And there is another reason why I can't accept it. The Catholic Church was well known as an institution of utter depravity. They rounded up heretics by the thousands and killed them in slow and horrible ways--flaying them alive, burning them at the stake, tossing their children and infants alive into fires, spreading their infernal, Satanic religion through war, terrorism, slavery, and fear. They traveled to other countries and did the same, butchering the native population and enslaving the children in religious boarding schools. It just doesn't seem possible that people with this kind of mentality would be spiritually capable of creating the sublime works of art and architecture that are the cathedrals of the world. Just seeing these churches in photographs is enough to make one gasp in wonder at the sheer beauty of it all. Trying to imagine Christianity of the 9th through the 13th Centuries creating such things is like imagining the Hitler regime doing the same. They didn't. They couldn't.

And of course, there is the undeniable presence of loads of high technology in the form of spires, rods, metal rooftops, and huge pipe organs. We now know that these are more than mere decoration, they served the purpose of gathering electrical energy from the atmosphere. These buildings were not originally churches, but power stations for entire communities, although they probably served other purposes, too. Nowadays, we build on the assumption that a thing that is useful should not also be beautiful to look at and pleasant to be near; back then, things were very different.

I think we are faced with the likelihood that the Church did not really build much of anything, certainly not the Gothic Cathedrals. They found these things already in place and simply modified or repaired them, adding some paintings and mosaics of Jesus and the saints to lay claim to what they did not, and could never, build themselves. We cannot find very many paintings or illustrations from the Middle Ages showing the churches under construction. What we do see is very primitive, certainly nothing we would associate with a tower nearly 200 feet high and topped with a gigantic metal cone. We are probably seeing some reconstruction going on, repair work that could be easily undertaken by unpaid labor using simple tools...unpaid, or paid very little, because of course, it was very easy to convince them they were working for the glory of God and Christ.
They are nearly all constructed on top of very ancient pagan temples..... perhaps something about the magical powers that they thought might be imparted upon their more recent work. But you might think that it would be bad mojo to put a Catholic temple on top of a pagan consecrated site?
 

Rhayader

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I'm sure standard workers can build these things, but remember they are all meticulously designed by grand architects, those with the knowledge of ancient and esoteric technology.
 

GNelke

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I always resort to the idea that our elaborate buildings were carved out of wood (Bubhagurat, Angkor, et al) and then in some fashion it was petrified instantly. However this type of detail shouldn't even be possible in wood (not by hand, not in the 1700s when at best you had a hand/gear drill. Not without making a mistake at some point. The depth of the patterns is incredible!).

Anyway, I have a much more disturbing feeling when I wonder who sat down and drew this out. Certainly this wasn't freehand and freewheeling, this had to be from a set pattern/design. And who in their right mind turned to the workers and said "check this shit out and YOU are going to build it!"? Who thought such beauty was required for the masses to enjoy? What citizens of such great leadership were blessed to live in such a time?

Something changed.
you can petrify wood with high powered electricity. It's happened on accident a few time with trees getting zapped by high power lines that go down but not out.
 

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