Austrian Legends. Folk Tales and Oral Traditions. A Glimpse Into The Past.

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Silvanus777

Silvanus777

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@Paracelsus : So sad what has been done to the American natives, and natives everwhere...

Paulides' research is a captivating topic. I have watched many hours of his various interviews. Regarding Sasquatch, I bet many of you are already aware with the European counterpart that seemed to have been around in the "middle ages":

Wilder Mann 1.jpgWilder Mann 3.jpgWilder Mann 5.jpgWilder Mann 4.pngWilder Mann 2.jpg
(As you can see, the "Wild Man" was significant enough to have become a popular motif in heraldry as well!

Here it was called "Wilder Mann", so simply "wild man" as you can guess. The females were called, among other names, "Wilde Weiber" or "Waldweiber" - wild or wood-women. Most descriptions of those are pretty much identical with the sasquatch, the males being commonly described as wild, savage, oafish and dangerous beasts, whereas the females more soft-natured and often quite friendly to humans. Helpful and knowledgeable in the arts of herbal medicine etc. which they generously shared with humans. In the local folk tale book from 1932 I took most of the info in the OP from, there are lots and lots of anecdotes about these hairy forest humanoids (as well as of small humanoids of the forest/wilderness) that do not sounds so much removed into the distant past of the "middle ages" really.

@nothingnew

Bear in mind, I have nothing against the Swiss people. Do you guys recognize this?

Boy oh boy. Look what I just recently bought on a flea market:

Commemorative Coin Schützenfest St. Gallen 1874 small.jpg


A commemorative coin from Switzerland issued for the 1874 "Eidgenössisches Schützenfest" in St. Gallen (it's a falsification, yet an accurate reproduction of the real thing). Some patriotic celebration I would guess.

These guys are hiding "THEIR" gang-signs everywhere. Even in the backwoods parts of my backwoods Austrian hillbilly town, next to a tractor road in the woods where only some hikers and the farmer owning the land ever sees it, somebody put a small stone monument with guess what carved into it!? Yes, a fasces (Need to get you a photo of it haha). Follow the fasces to get to where the real PTB is at, or so it seems. Once you know what your're looking at and for ("eyes to see" so to say) it honestly gets a bit frightening to see this symbol literally everywhere where it shouldn't be if we were to accept what we all learnt at school... :p

...

Oh and here's the episode from the Austrian mystery TV show with the Untersberg stuff (That should be the one I meant):


WARNING: As you can see already see on the cover image, they really caught the funniest of birds for this series, so expect some genuinely crazy looking/sounding/acting people. Those are the ones that make good television, the sane variant hangs out here! ;-)
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If you want some insight, look into Sean Hross. Here are his yt channels:
chatzefratz
giureh
Central Intelligence Agency


If you can stand the prominent swearing and some occasionally very shaky handheld camera footage, you are in for a treat I guarantee. A good start would be Die Pharaonen Show/The Pharaohs Show, both in German and English. There are some videos in French as well there, if that rocks your boat.
Ah yes, I have recently come across this stuff and been watching a bit on and off. Definitely goes to show we people here seem to be caught (?) in the same informational/algorithmic youtube "bubble" for a good part, hahaha! :unsure:
 
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nothingnew

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Just a couple minutes in, at 4:40 on this Austrian mystery tv show there is something in his collection that caught my eye right away. I've seen that golden figure of Osiris somewhere, well:




Could this be the same statue? I doubt there are many people with golden Osiris figurines in their living room.
 

Ice Nine

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Alright, glad I inspired a healthy discussion with my write-up!

@whitewave - Regarding the Untersberg:

The Untersberg in the province of Salzburg is about two hours to the south-west by car from me. Never been there (adverse circumstances have rendered me rather immobile the last 10 years :() but it is of old the nexus of much of legendary, mythical and spooky going ons in Austria in general. Much spookiness is said to have occured there since basically forever, and the most popular folk tale motif connected to the Untersberg is the "Untersberg-Manndl" = Untersberg tiny men. They're these typical dwarf or gnome characters that are said to mine and amass heaps of gold, silver and gems in the deeps of the mountain, living unseen to the human eye in underground caverns, which they exit and enter through concealed, secret doors in rockfaces, also possessing the power of making themselves invisible - usually by the use of "Tarnkappen", that is litereally "stealth caps"

Keeping that in mind, the modern legends of the Nazis, as @whitewave alluded to, having had an underground tunnel system / secret base deep inside the Untersberg, becomes quite interesting if you bear the dwarf tunnels of olden legend in mind! Man I wished I could show you some really cheesy TV documentary from one of our cheesy Austrian TV channels where they follow nutcases around who are into mysteries n'shite: Still it has a lot of fascinating info about mysterious places in Austria, including the Untersberg. Besides the time portal or time phenomena rumors going around even among English speakers on the web, there are actually people who are looking for the Nazis in the Untersberg today, as some believe they are still there... One guy in the TV show claimed he knew someone who even met one of them when exploring caverns in the Untersberg, and reported he or they (some Nazis) were stuck in time there... Haha, that is all really wild and I'm wary of taking anything at face value, especially when shown on cheesy Austrian TV. Would love to show you the documentary. It's even on youtube, but in German alas...

Among many more legends and rumors surrounding the Untersberg, there is also this notion that Charlemagne, of all ficitional characters, is sleeping within the mountain and waiting for his soon return. You know, to be "The once and future king of the Germans" I guess. To me, clearly, just a romantic adaptation of Arthurian material. There is a whole short story around this which is populary retold in many modern Austrian folk tale books, but I really think it is rather worthless and is based on some utterly fictional, romantic short story written not too long ago. I haven't been able to trace that story to it's roots as of yet. Just had to mention "Charlemagne" sleeping in the Untersberg. Come on, why not Aragarn!? :ROFLMAO:

@Onijunbei Yes, that is kinda what I was alluding to when I wrote in the OP

Your silly thoughts regarding dwarfs and giants mirror my silly thoughts, LOL. Somebody has to have been considerably larger in former times, or someone considerably smaller than today's average height in humans. Who were the dwarfs and who the giants I cannot really tell from the available material... However I have been seriously entertaining the thought that massive eu-/dysgenics programs could have been used some time prior to the photographic era to accomplish uniformity among human body types. Just thoughts, but basically a combination of genociding any and all misfits (taller, smaller, different types of humans) and mixing up the rest good, so you have the "average" human as the new norm in the end! What do you guys think bout that line of thought? As far as explaining all the old stories of giants and dwarfs/gnomes and their absence today?

@Ice Nine

Yeah, the dragons... Don't get me started. I didn't mention it cause it seems almost unexcitingly ordinary - the dragon stories. They are all over the place in Austria as well, obviously. The classical dragonslayer motif adapted to the world of the old Austrian peasantry, but more organic sounding reports too, which also make me quite a firm believer in the existence of large reptiles aka dragons in a past and lost age of humanity.

And the Wild Hunt: At this point, I have come to reject the notion of "extraterrestrials" completely. Now "extradimensionals" is a whole nother story! ;) And those would be great candidates for explaining at least part of the Wild Hunt phenomenon, as well as the plethora of other miscellaneous devil, demon and ghost haunting stories going around not only in Austria. The prize question for me here is always why we don't witness these things on such a mass scale today anymore? And I mean the Austrian treasury of folk tales and sayings is chock full of these "supernatural" (?) encounters, which used to scare people out of their minds!

Sil's crazy out of-the-box thought: What if these "extradimensionals"/"demons" don't need to come after us out in the real world (like in a dark forest in a full moon night) anymore, but now we all have portals to their realm right in our own houses, in the form of TVs, scrying mirriors AKA smartphones, etc., by which we humans can be manipulated in more subtle ways...

That's it guys - Roll the X-Files theme!! :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
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OH YES ABSOLUTELY we need a book!:D
But published as a collab, published under some bombastic pseudonym, just like the Renaissance guys did, so no single on of us can take the credit for all of it, IMHO! I would volunteer to do the German version, as I have experience with book writing haha. But let's hold our horses and take our time with that I would say, unless the end of the world is really coming in 2012. What...? Oh. It's almost 2019 already. What happened!? :ROFLMAO::LOL::ROFLMAO:
So much going on here, my mind is reeling and I just keep nodding my head as I read.


Sil's crazy out of-the-box thought: What if these "extradimensionals"/"demons" don't need to come after us out in the real world (like in a dark forest in a full moon night) anymore, but now we all have portals to their realm right in our own houses, in the form of TVs, scrying mirriors AKA smartphones, etc., by which we humans can be manipulated in more subtle ways..."

We have let too much of this stuff control our lives, it's just like some people are having their identities sucked right out of thiem into a virtual world. They are so concentrated on their virtual lives and letting devices control their every move and thought. Mindless zombies of a sort. I could feel myself being sucked in a decade ago, and put the brakes on, I do next to nothing on the 'net anymore and have a clam shell phone, that I just use for phone calls. And we don't need Alexa or anything else running our lives.

And the Wild Hunt: At this point, I have come to reject the notion of "extraterrestrials" completely. Now "extradimensionals" is a whole nother story! ;) And those would be great candidates for explaining at least part of the Wild Hunt phenomenon, as well as the plethora of other miscellaneous devil, demon and ghost haunting stories going around not only in Austria. The prize question for me here is always why we don't witness these things on such a mass scale today anymore? And I mean the Austrian treasury of folk tales and sayings is chock full of these "supernatural" (?) encounters, which used to scare people out of their minds! "
You are most likely right about extra dimensionals as opposed to extraterrestrial. I used to be a huge Ancient Alien supporter, but over the years
I've come to doubt the majority of their theories, and they have really gone off the rails anyway. But the TV show, much like the cheesey documentaries you mention, they at least take us to interesting ruins and places. Now I just laugh at their crazy explanations,

@Paracelsus oh yes David Paulides, something is really going on, and it just gets swept under the rug. I spend a lot of time in National Parks, and it gives me the heebie jeebies, I never go out hiking alone EVER, and while out walking/hiking with anybody, I never get out of sight of anybody I'm with. There are far too many instances of people being there one minute and then just being gone the next and no trace is ever found of them. Or maybe in the case of a toddler, he is found a few ridges away, with no shoes on and his feet completely pristine.
 

ShemTov

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"EUROPE'S EARLY HISTORY SUPPRESSED
European civilization — and its history — is as old as Egypt's. But it has been suppressed. Not since the close of the seventeenth century has it been allowed to be taught publicly.
It did not happen in a day. It took centuries of calculated plotting and ridicule to wipe from the pages of history the record of early Europe. Historians and theologians have conspired together to label Europe's early history as "myth."
Their motive is plain. If theologians and historians had allowed the early history of Europe to be taught in schools and universities, they would have had to admit the authenticity and the authority of the Bible. THAT they did not want to do.
Had they not expunged the early events of Europe every one today would be reading of the journeys of Noah, Shem, Heber, Asshur and many other Biblical heroes into Europe. Children would be reading in schools today of the early settlement of Assyrians and Chaldeans in Western Europe. They would know where the "Ten Lost Tribes" of the House of Israel migrated.
All this has been purposely hidden. But it has not all been lost. Scattered through the writings of scholars of the fifteenth, sixteenth and seventeenth centuries are fragmentary records which unveil what really happened in Europe. In museums and libraries, in state archives are still to be found documents of hoary antiquity corroborating the Biblical record.
This chapter contains the account of one of those documents. It is a history of the Danubian Valley — the area of Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, Bavaria and neighboring regions. The document is the "Oesterreichische Chronik" — the Austrian Chronicle. It has never before been rendered into modern English. A number of copies of the Chronicle are scattered throughout Europe. The last entry in the Chronicle is of the year 1404.

ABRAHAM IN THE AUSTRIAN CHRONICLE
The Austrian Chronicle begins its consecutive history with a man of princely birth — none other than the patriarch Abraham! But what has Abraham to do with the history of the Danubian Valley in Europe? Very much.
The most ancient Greek name for the Danube River was the River Noe. Noe is the Greek form of the Hebrew Noah.
Noah was the patriarch of the whole human family following the flood. His patriarchal authority passed on to Shem, who superseded his older brother Japheth. In each succeeding generation the hereditary right of the firstborn was passed on from father to son. Terah was eighth in descent from Shem (Genesis 11:10-26), and the heir to Noah and Shem. Terah had, according to the Biblical record, three sons. The oldest, Haran, was born when Terah was 70 years old (Gen. 11:26). He died before his father Terah did (Gen 11:28). "And Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees." Why Haran died young will be made plain shortly from the Austrian Chronicle. "
source
or
here

neat.
 
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Silvanus777

Silvanus777

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"EUROPE'S EARLY HISTORY SUPPRESSED
European civilization — and its history — is as old as Egypt's. But it has been suppressed. Not since the close of the seventeenth century has it been allowed to be taught publicly.
It did not happen in a day. It took centuries of calculated plotting and ridicule to wipe from the pages of history the record of early Europe. Historians and theologians have conspired together to label Europe's early history as "myth."
Their motive is plain. If theologians and historians had allowed the early history of Europe to be taught in schools and universities, they would have had to admit the authenticity and the authority of the Bible. THAT they did not want to do.
Had they not expunged the early events of Europe every one today would be reading of the journeys of Noah, Shem, Heber, Asshur and many other Biblical heroes into Europe. Children would be reading in schools today of the early settlement of Assyrians and Chaldeans in Western Europe. They would know where the "Ten Lost Tribes" of the House of Israel migrated.
All this has been purposely hidden. But it has not all been lost. Scattered through the writings of scholars of the fifteenth, sixteenth and seventeenth centuries are fragmentary records which unveil what really happened in Europe. In museums and libraries, in state archives are still to be found documents of hoary antiquity corroborating the Biblical record.
This chapter contains the account of one of those documents. It is a history of the Danubian Valley — the area of Austria, Hungary, Bohemia, Bavaria and neighboring regions. The document is the "Oesterreichische Chronik" — the Austrian Chronicle. It has never before been rendered into modern English. A number of copies of the Chronicle are scattered throughout Europe. The last entry in the Chronicle is of the year 1404.

ABRAHAM IN THE AUSTRIAN CHRONICLE
The Austrian Chronicle begins its consecutive history with a man of princely birth — none other than the patriarch Abraham! But what has Abraham to do with the history of the Danubian Valley in Europe? Very much.
The most ancient Greek name for the Danube River was the River Noe. Noe is the Greek form of the Hebrew Noah.
Noah was the patriarch of the whole human family following the flood. His patriarchal authority passed on to Shem, who superseded his older brother Japheth. In each succeeding generation the hereditary right of the firstborn was passed on from father to son. Terah was eighth in descent from Shem (Genesis 11:10-26), and the heir to Noah and Shem. Terah had, according to the Biblical record, three sons. The oldest, Haran, was born when Terah was 70 years old (Gen. 11:26). He died before his father Terah did (Gen 11:28). "And Haran died in the presence of his father Terah in the land of his nativity, in Ur of the Chaldees." Why Haran died young will be made plain shortly from the Austrian Chronicle. "
source
or
here

neat.
Fascinating. And what amazing synchronizity: I just yesterday had read an article on "Social Paradoxes of Jewry" over at revisedhistory.org where it states:
"The legend reports that in pagan times, Judaic princes also ruled the Austrian provinces. An Austrian chronicle, compiled by a Viennese chronicler in the years of the reign of Albert III (1350-1395), contains a list of fewer than twenty-two such Jewish rulers who passed on the government to their own sons.
In this list are not only their names, but also both the years of reign and the place of their burial: "Sennan, ruled 45 years, buried at the Stubentor, in Vienna; Zippan, ruled 43 years, buried in Tulln." . . . The legend is repeated, with some variations, in the Latin chronicles of Austria by Henricus Gundelfingus of 1474 and in a number of other chronicles." - Source
Might that be the very same "Austrian Chronicle" that you posted about @ShemTov? Anyways thank you very much for the valuable information. (y)
Now I'll have to get a copy of this ominous "Austrian Chronicle", at least in digital form! ;)
 

ShemTov

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i think the middle danube basin is a place very purposefully neglected for thousands of years because it holds all the answers to all our mysteries. even things like the stonehenge landscape are nothing more than copies of the original paradise landscape of myth in the middle danube. scientifically you have to note the magic loess soils, ample water, warm soils and long growing season [much longer than the middle east] of what really is a paradise when compared to almost everywhere else.
 

ripvanwillie

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@Silvanus777,
I know this is off topic, but one of my inventor heroes hails from your neck of the woods, Viktor Schauberger. If you ever get the chance, go check out the PKS in Bad Ischl.
Home | PKS

Schauberger even gives his theory on the phenomenon of the Niebelungen and sono-luminescence. Fairy tale tangential.


I'm still making my way through this book:
The Divining Hand : The 500-Year-Old Mystery of DowsingDowsing
The Divining Hand: The 500 Year-old Mystery of Dowsing by Christopher Bird

If there was ever a more supressed and ridiculed technology than dowsing, I don't know what it would be. Towns that lose their drinking water supply quietly bring in dowsers, pay them, and then hush up. In your case they probably just attributed your hit to luck or statistical probability.

It's all just fairy tales, right?
Not in my experience. I know this is just anecdotal, but it confirms what you are saying. I once owned a ranch in central California (USA) which had a rapidly decreasing water table due to too many vineyards in the area. My neighbor Larry, who was a black man with African heritage, was also a dowser. He had dowsed and found the location for the water well on his property. He told me it was a psychic skill passed down in his family that apparently skipped a generation. He said they used 2 year old limbs from a willow because they have a natural affinity to water. You need young branches, as they have a higher water content within. Old or dead sticks won't work. He showed me how to do it and we dowsed many acres of my ranch looking for a water source. I didn't find anything nor could I get the sticks to do anything at all. I clearly didn't possess any dowsing skills. But it was a fun day walking the land learning about something I had no knowledge of.
In all honesty, I didn't believe his story, I was just enjoying some time with a neighbor I really liked. But when I called the well drilling company in the area, the owner told me the cost and time involved in finding water and it is a process than can take time and a lot of money. At the time $35,000- 45,000 US dollars per experimental hole, and there is no guarantee he'll find water. The overall cost per hole was dependent on the rock he has to drill through, and how deep he had to go. He then told me I could cut the costs dramatically and find new water sources much faster if I hire a dowser! He gave me examples of neighbors experiences in finding water sources, and it sounded a bit too good to be true. He had names of several dowsers in the area that would do the work for a reasonable fee.
When I gave him the address of my ranch, he was already aware of the property and said it has been doused before. He told me there were a few locations that he knew of where he could find water, and one of them was pretty much where my friend Larry had doused and said that water is down there. The driller told me he didn't understand how dowsing worked, and because it was not scientifically acceptable, he only told advised his clients by word of mouth that it may work, but offered no guarantees. There was no mention of dowsing anywhere in his company literature. He said it made his job a lot less frustrating and more affordable to his clients. He explained there are areas in the underlying stone where water wants to percolate up and the dowsers seem to know how to locate them better than using actual water table charts. This brought me back to stuff I read about Viktor Schauberger and his theories of how salmon shoot their way up waterfalls.
In the end, I never had the well dug. Just too expensive, and I ended up selling the ranch. But I have been intrigued by dousing ever since. I mean, if the experts who dig wells rely on dousers, then I'd say that's proof there is some efficacy to the process. And of course, science says it's a bunch of hooey, just folklore. All the more reason to suspect something important hidden from us.
 

ISeenItFirst

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Not in my experience. I know this is just anecdotal, but it confirms what you are saying. I once owned a ranch in central California (USA) which had a rapidly decreasing water table due to too many vineyards in the area. My neighbor Larry, who was a black man with African heritage, was also a dowser. He had dowsed and found the location for the water well on his property. He told me it was a psychic skill passed down in his family that apparently skipped a generation. He said they used 2 year old limbs from a willow because they have a natural affinity to water. You need young branches, as they have a higher water content within. Old or dead sticks won't work. He showed me how to do it and we dowsed many acres of my ranch looking for a water source. I didn't find anything nor could I get the sticks to do anything at all. I clearly didn't possess any dowsing skills. But it was a fun day walking the land learning about something I had no knowledge of.
In all honesty, I didn't believe his story, I was just enjoying some time with a neighbor I really liked. But when I called the well drilling company in the area, the owner told me the cost and time involved in finding water and it is a process than can take time and a lot of money. At the time $35,000- 45,000 US dollars per experimental hole, and there is no guarantee he'll find water. The overall cost per hole was dependent on the rock he has to drill through, and how deep he had to go. He then told me I could cut the costs dramatically and find new water sources much faster if I hire a dowser! He gave me examples of neighbors experiences in finding water sources, and it sounded a bit too good to be true. He had names of several dowsers in the area that would do the work for a reasonable fee.
When I gave him the address of my ranch, he was already aware of the property and said it has been doused before. He told me there were a few locations that he knew of where he could find water, and one of them was pretty much where my friend Larry had doused and said that water is down there. The driller told me he didn't understand how dowsing worked, and because it was not scientifically acceptable, he only told advised his clients by word of mouth that it may work, but offered no guarantees. There was no mention of dowsing anywhere in his company literature. He said it made his job a lot less frustrating and more affordable to his clients. He explained there are areas in the underlying stone where water wants to percolate up and the dowsers seem to know how to locate them better than using actual water table charts. This brought me back to stuff I read about Viktor Schauberger and his theories of how salmon shoot their way up waterfalls.
In the end, I never had the well dug. Just too expensive, and I ended up selling the ranch. But I have been intrigued by dousing ever since. I mean, if the experts who dig wells rely on dousers, then I'd say that's proof there is some efficacy to the process. And of course, science says it's a bunch of hooey, just folklore. All the more reason to suspect something important hidden from us.
I've seen it used by public utilities on the street to find a water main. Their radar just wasn't getting it done.

Someone did a survey of public water utilities in the UK and found about half used them iirc. No one claims to know why or how, but it seems those that do swear by it, and those that don't call it bunk.
 
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asatiger1966

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@Paracelsus kudos for mentioning Die Nibelungen, an epic tale of a lost/forgotten time, well except we have that epic saga. I actually think there could have been dragons in one of the many cycles on Earth. Something keeps happening were we forget everything. I think we have more going on than just time issues and cover-ups.

And about the wild hunt, this part got to me. I can't help myself, it sounds like alien abductions. Some sort of abduction, doesn't have to be Aliens per say, they could be terrestrial.
  • The wild hunt abducts people and certain animals. They have to fly along through the air amongst the wild company, and return the next morning under amnesia, disoriented, scratched, bruised and battered. Sometimes the people or animals are found dead at very distant locations, or not at all.
OMG, just last night I said the same thing, we were watching The Hobbit Battle of the Five Armies, for the umpteethn time. And I said the same thing, it was like an epiphany, I said, we were the Dwarfs! it just all made sense. Big structures, big doorways for the normal/giant people.
Ice Nine
maman , I am laughing my backside off, not at you but the "madness" that is national security. My military experiences left me and others with an open mind that could drive you nuts if dwelt upon. I have often alluded to the reality of other dimensions or other realms. My group knows that the Dragons are real and have , for whatever reason, removed themselves to another realm.

Dragons lived on this planet and still reside in a few isolated climates. The Fiery Flying Serpent | Genesis Park
One huge problem with encountering these creatures would be location. They over millennium coexisted with other life forms, fairies, dwarfs, unicorns, really too many to category. The dragons did not always have a poor relationship with humans per-say. in the beginning they both worked together to maintain harmony with the the environment.. The Mont yard mountain of Indochina could recall a time when the yellow dragon would come when called to their villages to heal a child stricken with an unknown illness. An yes the tribesmen came to worship the Yellow dragon as a god, along with a few other creatures. The humans, being lower lifeforms were afraid of any creature that was more intelligent, scary looking and hard to communicate with.

The primitive leadership of the humans were afraid that the other creatures would be taken as Gods partly because of their special abilities that humans though only gods could perform. So we had the manufacturing of human gods with special powers to compete with the real elemental powers of the earth bound creatures. at least in writing and the stories told by their leaders.

As the human populations grew and moved to towns, again removing themselves further away from the elemental experiences of the rural areas. They became more fearful of others. And easier prey for priest that needed power, control and their money.

Wars eventually came with increasing numbers of humans. The many creatures felt no desire to grow their numbers, for expansion and control were foreign to elemental creatures. Eventually the humans chose to fight the Dwarfs of the mountains driving them totally underground. This was a thousands of years undertaking. The other creatures were to make adjustments in the way their relationships with the humans were conducted. limited trade with the humans worked up into the early 18th century, at that time the creatures that had survived the many wars withdrew into themselves

Me and my men have seen many of the creatures you might call as fairy tales. The main difference between us and you is a mater of location. We lived in their homes with them and most people live in human houses. , most read distorted accounts of someone that had a brother who lived in a hotel on an island where creatures lived. but he knew a man.

Some of the more human of the elemental became very secretive and hid their presence among humans. Think of The U.S. invading and displacing the western peoples by the million. After which there was a major change in our history. Each creature would resist differently to being pushed by humans, a lower lifeforms, from their land of millions of years.

They could hide in plain sight, go to another planet, open a portal and go to a compatible dimension waiting on the humans to destroy themselves, then return to heal the planet. My experience says they did it all.

We went looking for survivors in the mountains around Dak To, attached a map of area, the dark red area is where we met the birds. and fell into a NVA unit about 3,000 in number, our causalities were heavy.. When returning to the mountain after food,ammo,medical ,reinforcements. 40 troopers got off the Chinook chopper, 15 died in the next three days, the survivors were all hit once, maybe as much as three times.we were back in the crap as a blocking force. Then we walked into a dimensional bubble, the Montagnard , picture attached, scouts fell to the ground praying to their bird Gods. We could see 5-7 depending on whom you asked.

I attached a picture of a close resemblance to what we saw, without the crazy man on top LOL.
Three years later we were in Thailand, near the center of the country. During that search we encountered a small dragon , again on a mountaintop during a heavy rain. he knocked out all of our electronics. He did not discover us and juust the event , moving along. Similar picture attached.

I make an effort to give as much business to the Vietnamese people living here as possible. There is one barber shop I frequent. The older lady that runs the shop and I were on casual speaking terms. If you think you have questions about some of the events in my life, I have a few myself. Using the old "I have a friend" and he told me about some birds that the hill people worship, and that he relayed to me that his squad had seen them on a mountain near Dak To.
She stopped cutting my hair and stared at me for a while then said, tell your friend that he was very lucky with the birds, but if he had seen the golden dragon he would have died.

txu-oclc-1092889-78336-8-70.jpg
Vimanas, ancient flying machines in Vedic literature.JPGMontagnards_in_field.pngyellow dragon.jpg
 

Ice Nine

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@asatiger1966 I always enjoy your "spilling the beans" posts. My father, who died in 1971, fought overseas in WWII as did almost all of my uncles, anyway, Dad always used to say we know nothing about the "real world" especially outside of the USA. Unfortunately I never got to pursue that line of thought with him in later life.
For some reason we are treated as naive children who need to be sheltered from reality.
 

welkyn

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Great thread Silvanus. Thought I'd add a few things about your Venetian Dwarves!

In Britain, we have these very, very old legends of small, dark men who work in the mountains; they mine precious stones and metals, and trade with local populations. Their holds are carved into the mountains, and are filled with intricate (and very tiny) passageways that no regular size human can navigate - maybe a young child, at a push, but I'm talking 3-4 years (not someone you want working in a mine...).

These people are said to be much older here than we are, though we can't say for sure (a lot of this is set in "great antiquity" - however far back that is). The curious thing is that they are variously called "Vens", "Wens" (with the soft "u" of English W), or later, "Pens" or "Pents".

So nowadays we have places like the "Pennines" in England and the "Pentlands" in Scotland, which were where these people lived. When Danish people started coming here (Angles, Jutes, Scyldings etc.), they mispronounced "Pent" as "Pecht", and their legends got mixed up with the "Picts" of Latin sources, who may or may not have been the related people. There are Pents/Pechts referenced as living in Orkney as well - again, in tiny houses that no normal size human could fit in.

Also associated with these people are a group in northern Ireland/western Scotland (the Isles) known as the "Danes" or "Old Danes". They're not the Danes of Denmark - they are, again, a short, dark, hairy people, who live in the mounds, in old barrows, or in mountains, who hoard precious goods, and are excellent stoneworkers/masons. The mounds and megaliths of Ireland are attributed to them, which leads people to associate them with the "Tuatha De Danann" and "Daoine Sidhe" of mythological fame.

Then we get one other group in Ireland, which are called the Feni or Fenians, who may be tangentially related to all this - I'll get into how in a bit.

Basically in some of the research I've done, we've come to the conclusion that, at some point, there was a migration into Britain and Ireland from the south-west, which brought what we've been calling "Phoenicians" (though they may indeed be "Venetians", at this rate, albeit back-dated to BC) - hence "Feni", "Veni", "Weni", "Peni" etc. There are cultural and genetic changes associated with this migration, which can be traced from the Mediterranean up the Atlantic coast to Cornwall, Wales and Ireland, and from central Europe (Austria - Hallstatt) up into southern England. The associations with precious metals, "magical" technologies, and foreignness (sometimes these people were called "Wealh" - Welsh!), leads me to believe that we're looking at the same people here as you have in your folklore. There are also stories of disappearances, invisibility powers, mysterious goings on in general - the same schtick!

Edit: I remember one other interesting facet of this conundrum: the Tinkers. The Tinkers were - as the name suggests - renowned Tinsmiths, who would often travel, or stay in small, ethnically homogenous communities. They would trade their skill with metalworking for food, money, whatever people could spare, going from home to home, often in Scotland. Eventually, they were persecuted by the Church, then the Government; many were likely massacred during the Highland Clearances, and nowadays, very few people know anything at all about them. We have a couple of photographs depicting Travellers who might be Tinkers, but it's difficult to say (they have dark features, dark hair, "Mediterranean" look to a degree - a bit like Bebers). One of the interesting things about them is that they're supposedly linked to Jewish custom... I can't remember exactly how, but there's a big thing even today in some communities in the Scottish lowlands about not eating pork. I wonder if there's a "Phoenician/Venetian" link there as well.


That's about all I have for now on that front. A quick one on the Wild Hunt: we also have the Wild Hunt in England and Scotland (shared Germanic culture), but there's a similar thing that's recorded in some Irish, Welsh and Scottish Gaelic sources. Basically, it would happen on occasion that people walking out and about, especially going by old routes in the wilder parts, would be come upon by "fairies", that would pick them up and carry them off a way - they might be found later that day, or later that week, somewhere a mile or more off from where they started. They'd always be found confused, disoriented, amnesiac, with cuts, bruises, welts and all sorts of light damage to them. They'd never know what happened or how they'd got to where they were.

This is recorded quite a lot in various parts of western Scotland, where the Wild Hunt idea was less well known... Elsewhere in England it's down just as in Austria - the Wild Hunt, taking people up into the ghoulish host to deposit them somewhere else (if they don't get killed in the process). One of the main differences is that I don't think anybody's recorded as having been killed by the "fairies". Also, there are no reports of what they look like - one report I read said that a local soothsayer/magic-man got picked up, some time in the 18th century, and he was known to have the "second sight", and was telling his friend what the fairies looked like as they came down upon him, but he couldn't remember the episode at all after he was found wandering the wilderness a few days later - again, scratched and bruised, very disoriented. His friend hadn't been able to see anything but the magic-man getting whisked up into the sky and carried a long distance.

Interesting how this stuff is so common across Europe... I think every culture here has similar stories, of little dark men mining things out of the mountains, of lights and strange sounds sweeping men off their feet, of dragons and deluges, swamps that swallow churches and all sorts of general oddity. It stands in favour of these accounts that they're produced independently by different cultures, by people who would have had no way of contacting each other in general - the peasantry weren't known to be particularly well-traveled, nor particularly well-versed in foreign tongues. And I'm sure you've found the same, that even when they were beginning to be recorded in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries (or whenever it was), nobody believed these stories but the people who'd seen them first hand. Very strange stuff.
 
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asatiger1966

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Ice Nine
maman , I am laughing my backside off, not at you but the "madness" that is national security. My military experiences left me and others with an open mind that could drive you nuts if dwelt upon. I have often alluded to the reality of other dimensions or other realms. My group knows that the Dragons are real and have , for whatever reason, removed themselves to another realm.

Dragons lived on this planet and still reside in a few isolated climates. The Fiery Flying Serpent | Genesis Park
One huge problem with encountering these creatures would be location. They over millennium coexisted with other life forms, fairies, dwarfs, unicorns, really too many to category. The dragons did not always have a poor relationship with humans per-say. in the beginning they both worked together to maintain harmony with the the environment.. The Mont yard mountain of Indochina could recall a time when the yellow dragon would come when called to their villages to heal a child stricken with an unknown illness. An yes the tribesmen came to worship the Yellow dragon as a god, along with a few other creatures. The humans, being lower lifeforms were afraid of any creature that was more intelligent, scary looking and hard to communicate with.

The primitive leadership of the humans were afraid that the other creatures would be taken as Gods partly because of their special abilities that humans though only gods could perform. So we had the manufacturing of human gods with special powers to compete with the real elemental powers of the earth bound creatures. at least in writing and the stories told by their leaders.

As the human populations grew and moved to towns, again removing themselves further away from the elemental experiences of the rural areas. They became more fearful of others. And easier prey for priest that needed power, control and their money.

Wars eventually came with increasing numbers of humans. The many creatures felt no desire to grow their numbers, for expansion and control were foreign to elemental creatures. Eventually the humans chose to fight the Dwarfs of the mountains driving them totally underground. This was a thousands of years undertaking. The other creatures were to make adjustments in the way their relationships with the humans were conducted. limited trade with the humans worked up into the early 18th century, at that time the creatures that had survived the many wars withdrew into themselves

Me and my men have seen many of the creatures you might call as fairy tales. The main difference between us and you is a mater of location. We lived in their homes with them and most people live in human houses. , most read distorted accounts of someone that had a brother who lived in a hotel on an island where creatures lived. but he knew a man.

Some of the more human of the elemental became very secretive and hid their presence among humans. Think of The U.S. invading and displacing the western peoples by the million. After which there was a major change in our history. Each creature would resist differently to being pushed by humans, a lower lifeforms, from their land of millions of years.

They could hide in plain sight, go to another planet, open a portal and go to a compatible dimension waiting on the humans to destroy themselves, then return to heal the planet. My experience says they did it all.

We went looking for survivors in the mountains around Dak To, attached a map of area, the dark red area is where we met the birds. and fell into a NVA unit about 3,000 in number, our causalities were heavy.. When returning to the mountain after food,ammo,medical ,reinforcements. 40 troopers got off the Chinook chopper, 15 died in the next three days, the survivors were all hit once, maybe as much as three times.we were back in the crap as a blocking force. Then we walked into a dimensional bubble, the Montagnard , picture attached, scouts fell to the ground praying to their bird Gods. We could see 5-7 depending on whom you asked.

I attached a picture of a close resemblance to what we saw, without the crazy man on top LOL.
Three years later we were in Thailand, near the center of the country. During that search we encountered a small dragon , again on a mountaintop during a heavy rain. he knocked out all of our electronics. He did not discover us and juust the event , moving along. Similar picture attached.

I make an effort to give as much business to the Vietnamese people living here as possible. There is one barber shop I frequent. The older lady that runs the shop and I were on casual speaking terms. If you think you have questions about some of the events in my life, I have a few myself. Using the old "I have a friend" and he told me about some birds that the hill people worship, and that he relayed to me that his squad had seen them on a mountain near Dak To.
She stopped cutting my hair and stared at me for a while then said, tell your friend that he was very lucky with the birds, but if he had seen the golden dragon he would have died.

Update: The map below showing that our areas of combat coincided with most of our search area. We fought and searched heavily in and around Komtum and Dak To. The map shows areas of activity of what the Vietnamese people called Nguoi Rung - "Forest People". Americans call it Bigfoot.

According to an ancient origin myth, the Vietnamese people are descended from a dragon and a fairy. The Montagnard tribesmen made up part of our scouts because the jungle talked to them.

Dragon Mountain, The name Ham Rong or the Dragon comes from the fact that the center of the mountain range is a rock formation that resembles a dragon head. The Vietnamese people believe the legends and the myths that they are the descendants from the dragon and supernatural. my emphasis only, I think they use the word supernatural to mean , something they can not understand.

Once you have an encounter out there, somehow your maginet field mixes " Naval Intelligent" and they can locate you. Like a good coon dog they can sense you a long way off, also informing them your friendly.

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Italian84

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Thank you @Silvanus777 for sharing these stories.
They fill my imagination, and knowledge of Austria, which is tremendously school-level – and I like to learn in this way.

4. Dwarfs really just short Italian/Venetian guys?
Quoting directly from A. Depiny's "Upper Austrian Book of Folk Legends":

“Chapter 7: The Short Welshmen:

In times gone by, Italians came to the Alps, spent weeks in the mountains, collected mysterious rocks and returned to the South laden with bags. Up to the 18th century these treasure seekers were seen…”


The term “dwarfs” in Austrian legends was often used synonymously with what could be translated to English as “short Venetian men”, “short Welshmen” or even simply “the Welsh”. Don’t confuse it with today’s English language understanding of “the Welsh”. In the olden days in Germans lands it was Italians, and even ancient Romans, who were called Welsh(men)”. The 1493 (?) “Nuremberg Chronicle” calls Italy “Welshland” and Italians “Welsh”. (What a confusing way of recording history!)

Modern mural of a "Venediger Mandl" (Short Welshman) on a mountainside home. Note the flag of Venice on the coat.

These visitations of “short Venetian men”, coming as secretive and stealthy prospectors looking for precious metals and gems in the Austrian alpine mountains looks to have been a very real, very common occurrence. They stayed with locals overnight and paid them with gems and gold. There are many stories about the seemingly magical powers of these very real, short Italians. One is said to have opened up a gateway in a rockface by reading from a book and a “colleage” appeared from inside the cliff handing over bags of gold. Another Short Welshman did the same trick with a strange rod. In general there are various account of these dwarfish men having rods that could either open up hidden passages in the rock or find gold. Sounds almost like a detector of sorts.

Although these short statured strangers from Italy are basically the Austrian version of a dwarf, they seemed to be just real people, nothing magical about them. In one story a lumberjack even meets one of them he had previously showed around in the mountains, just living in a regular city house in the Upper Austrian capitol of Linz.

The question here becomes this:

Was there once a considerable size difference between northern Germans/Austrians and southern Italians/Venetians that would have lead my ancestors to identify the latter as “small/short” men or even as dwarfs? Where the Italians smaller in the past or the Germanics taller? Or both? Or just an old case of anti-Italian racism?? :p
Concerning the "Welsh" thing, it might connect to the Polish root włosk- [that "l" should be read "w", as in vɔjˈtɨwa to call the dead pope; right?] for anything dealing with Ital-. Interestingly: Włochy, Republika Włoska = Italia, Repubblica Italiana); it does also sound like V/Walachia, innit? I bought an illustrated bilingual dictionary, when in Poland, and now the association with Welsh caught my attention.
Also, in Piedmont there is a region called Valsesia, related to the Walser people. It sounds like Alesia, and this reminds me of a Xavier Guichard book called "Eleuse Alaise: Enquête sur les origines de la civilisation européenne" (the link includes the full text). I'll come back on this specific connection by starting its own thread.

That's it for my blunders in linguistics.

Either folktale or NIMBY, it is old, thus charming! There is something historical behind to discover. Added to my to-do list.
 

Paracelsus

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@asatiger1966,
I know a little about the Tengu of Japan and how the Yamabushi of the Shugendo/Shinto religion interact with them.
But, do you know anything more about the "Gold Dragon"of the Montangards? Is it a bad omen, or will the Gold Dragon physically attack someone itself?
 

asatiger1966

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@asatiger1966,
I know a little about the Tengu of Japan and how the Yamabushi of the Shugendo/Shinto religion interact with them.
But, do you know anything more about the "Gold Dragon"of the Montangards? Is it a bad omen, or will the Gold Dragon physically attack someone itself?
We never had an opportunity to work with the Japanese, our misfortune. The Gold Dragon or any entity thousands of years old will, by nature of retelling the events, change with time.
The Montagnards thought the Gold Dragon that flew was positive,sometimes cured the sick and brought abundance to the village. The Gold Dragon that lived in the river could manifest into a man and help people having difficulties, but if the human tried to deceive, trick or lie to the the Dragon, misfortune would follow sometimes death.

My thoughts after reflecting on similar events. The birds and dragon were inter- dimensional and projected an image that they felt we would be more open towards. We also think the Bigfoot is of more than one type. The red eye ones are more likely to be inter- dimensional and the other types are locals sharing a few of the incredible traits of red eyes.

Also when you become involved with an event, never project your human experiences into the situation. Do not assume anything, remember you are operating from the disadvantage of ignorance. Whatever is happening with all of the various myths is normal to them and we are probably perceived as the nuisance. We also have a perception that before time nothing was predatory.

universe-over-wall-940x350.jpg
 

Paracelsus

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We never had an opportunity to work with the Japanese, our misfortune. The Gold Dragon or any entity thousands of years old will, by nature of retelling the events, change with time.
The Montagnards thought the Gold Dragon that flew was positive,sometimes cured the sick and brought abundance to the village. The Gold Dragon that lived in the river could manifest into a man and help people having difficulties, but if the human tried to deceive, trick or lie to the the Dragon, misfortune would follow sometimes death.

My thoughts after reflecting on similar events. The birds and dragon were inter- dimensional and projected an image that they felt we would be more open towards. We also think the Bigfoot is of more than one type. The red eye ones are more likely to be inter- dimensional and the other types are locals sharing a few of the incredible traits of red eyes.

Also when you become involved with an event, never project your human experiences into the situation. Do not assume anything, remember you are operating from the disadvantage of ignorance. Whatever is happening with all of the various myths is normal to them and we are probably perceived as the nuisance. We also have a perception that before time nothing was predatory.
Well aware of that. It's hard to find actual useful traditional wisdom, versus myths that are more artistic license than truth. I've brought it up in another post, but, it is one of the few practical examples I can think of.

- Stay away from Anasazi cliff dwellings, especially if you have an intense desire to climb up to them. Because the spirits are luring you up there to push you to your death.

- Also -
Apparently there is a black rock formation down in Australia that the Aborigines won't go near. People have gone missing in these rocks for years without a trace. Even those who go searching for them have gone missing.

But, you have to know the ancient stories and not the spooky stories that they think "we" want to hear to know why. Sometimes Indians make up a whopper to tell gullible white people. Other times you get the real story, and it is even more fantastic than fiction. One time I was convinced I was transforming into a mountain lion after eating a massive amount of shrooms. Just like Carlos asking Don Juan if he transformed into a raven and actually flew or just imagined it.

Denying magic exists doesn't necessarily make it stop existing.
 

asatiger1966

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Well aware of that. It's hard to find actual useful traditional wisdom, versus myths that are more artistic license than truth. I've brought it up in another post, but, it is one of the few practical examples I can think of.

- Stay away from Anasazi cliff dwellings, especially if you have an intense desire to climb up to them. Because the spirits are luring you up there to push you to your death.

- Also -
Apparently there is a black rock formation down in Australia that the Aborigines won't go near. People have gone missing in these rocks for years without a trace. Even those who go searching for them have gone missing.

But, you have to know the ancient stories and not the spooky stories that they think "we" want to hear to know why. Sometimes Indians make up a whopper to tell gullible white people. Other times you get the real story, and it is even more fantastic than fiction. One time I was convinced I was transforming into a mountain lion after eating a massive amount of shrooms. Just like Carlos asking Don Juan if he transformed into a raven and actually flew or just imagined it.

Denying magic exists doesn't necessarily make it stop existing.
There are a number of books written on the subject of double talk towards the " white man ". If one can spend time with the tribe they may open up to you.The number one characteristic of white men that tribes do not like, "we talk to much".

Australia is a wonderment. We worked with their Long Range Recon and were impressed with their professionalism. Attached map. Our base at the Tropic of Capricorn, Alice Springs, is somewhat centered to the Continent. Also not far from Ayers Rock. I often thought the Rock was either a toxic waste site or an ancient ammo dump, my opinion

We trained from Mount Isa north toward Cape York. The whole continent seems different ,in that the magnetic frequency comes and goes, making difficult the use some of the detection equipment LOL.
My opinion.

Australia.gifTopographic Map of Mainland Australia.jpg
 

NowhereMan

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In my homecountry of Austria, we have a rich tradition of folk tales and legends that were, for the longest time, orally transmitted. Sadly, fewer and fewer people are paying know of or pay attention to them.
There is evidence presented on this site that leads me to consider that Actual History, should we ever uncover it, may be closer to Fantasia in The Neverending Story than anything we were ever taught in school, "The Nothing" is the force destroying our history, and Bastian (Bastian Forts) is needed to save it.
 

Maxine

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There is evidence presented on this site that leads me to consider that Actual History, should we ever uncover it, may be closer to Fantasia in The Neverending Story than anything we were ever taught in school, "The Nothing" is the force destroying our history, and Bastian (Bastian Forts) is needed to save it.
We sure are gonna uncover it sooner than some expect i think, you can feel it in the air that something major is going to happend to this world very soon!
 

dreamtime

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There is evidence presented on this site that leads me to consider that Actual History, should we ever uncover it, may be closer to Fantasia in The Neverending Story than anything we were ever taught in school, "The Nothing" is the force destroying our history, and Bastian (Bastian Forts) is needed to save it.
We sure are gonna uncover it sooner than some expect i think, you can feel it in the air that something major is going to happend to this world very soon!
I agree and I also feel as if some enourmous tension is building up. the reference to the never-ending story feels very right to me. The Nothing is not only devouring our history, it is devouring what makes us human, our energy and life force. history is a large part of it.

large parts of ourselves is no longer accessible to us, only to a select few (who see it through dreams, visions, etc).

I think one of the reasons the Nothing from that book fits do perfectly is because when Michael Ende wrote the never ending story, with the Nothing he actually had the destruction of history and historical buildings in mind (more or less unconsciously), as he has witnessed the complete destruction and burning of Hamburg at the end of WW2 by the Americans. He was one of the survivors and afterwards moved to Munich where he observed drunken American soldiers shooting at and killing german civilians for fun.

When he moved away from germany in later years and saw the old whole Italian cities for the first time, he felt home again, remembered Hamburg from before the war, and intuitively realized what had been lost in Germany with the destruction of the old structures. He realized this is how life was supposed to be and that life was incompatible with the new way to build houses. in the 80s he criticized the rich elite of munich for keeping the old gründerzeit houses for themselves while the poor people were living in the new post-war reality of scarcity and ugliness. witnessing this transformation of german society lead to his vision of the “nothing”.

Anyway, i think his book is one of the most important ones written in his generation and is a powerful symbol for what happens to us, as the energetic fabric that holds together society is dissolving at a fast rate.

sometimes i think i can sense this kind of “nothing” (absende of life) getting bigger and slowly enveloping the world.

it is no coincidence that the subject of the never ending story came up in the 1980s in Germany and also became one of the most sold books. some people are connected to this deeper reality which Michael Ende was able to access after years of spiritual struggle. He is like a shaman that was able to discover a path to our own collective consciousness, in an effort to allow healing, and stop the “nothing” from devouring us.

recently i often get the feeling that something fundamental has changed during the last 20 years or so, but I am not sure how much of it is simply subjective. but what I sense is that humanity is slowly coming towards a point where we lose our sense of meaning, at which point a big crisis will manifest itself, as life without meaning is impossible, and i hope that the loss of collective meaning will lead to a healthy shock, a renewed way of looking at life, a new hope for millions of people to create a new way of life that is actually worth living, outside the shackles of monetary slavery and self imposed limits. because even though I can’t really prove this feeling, i sense some kind of vacuum, a deafening silence that is getting louder everyday for me. this vacuum may contain great potential for change. i don’t really know.

The only thing that can stop the “nothing” is human bonds, the connection between humans is what defines life, and it is precicely those connections that have been severed during the last 300 years up to a point that a growing part of humanity no longer takes part in sustaining a future (for which you need offspring and healthy family connections)

while the social fabric was already devolving in the. 18th and 19th century, it was still common in those centuries for people to live in larger networks (with house maids etc). this was actually already a poor substitute for earlier times, but only with the two world wars and modernity arriving did those networks erode completely, and nowadays with work defining everything, there is no foundation left for life to flourish. modern society/medicine can mask this state pretty effectively, but at one point it will become obvious that we are fundamentally on the wrong path, and we are reaching a dead end.

there’s a lag of 1-2 generations for energetic problems in society to fully manifest as structural problems due to the fact that those generations who define our way of life have been brought up decades ago, so what I mean is that certain parts of society still project a way of life that is essentially already dead, and the more older people step away from actively playing their part in society, the more this will become obvious.
 
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