Ancient Coins: are they fake?

tupperaware

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It looks like all the statues could be fake. No problem there.

How about the coins: Roman Coin Dies

"Very few ancient Roman coin dies have survived. After many strikings the dies eventually wore out, producing coins with lettering and designs that were less and less crisp, until the coins became unacceptable and the dies were discarded (probably destroyed). However, the Bibliothèque Nationale in Paris has a collection of dies made in imitation of the ancient Roman dies by a sixteenth-century engraver and medallist from Padua named Giovanni Cavino. Cavino used these dies to strike many sestertii that imitated ancient Roman coins in design and method of striking. Today the coins struck by Cavino, known as "Paduans," are collector's items in their own right, though scholars can distinguish them from genuine Roman coins because of slight differences in the metal alloy, the thickness of the coin, and the cut of the letters. "

These known fake coins are now collectors items. What would happen to their value if due to a mistake the fake coins were shown to be real?☢

There were no dates on older coins - believe it or not. I did not know that. History of Dates on Coins Dates on coins are a recent "novelty". The great Julius Cesar had no reason to put dates on his coins?? Why not?

No dates on coins makes counterfeiting easier. A bit on oldest coins with dates.


Experts don't know how the dies were made (the artwork) and new dies would have to be made around every 1000 hits. Lots of dies to make the 20 million or so Dinaris needed for the roman empire each year - supposedly.

A coin expert thought there were around 10 million roman coins in collectors hands. That is around 80,000 lbs of silver. That is only 18 million in silver today. How incredibly easy would it be to counterfeit a huge number of silver coins with forged 16th century coining die technology and with maybe 500 different variations based on a few real coins gathered from around the world?

The dies during the 16th century would have been hardened steel good for say 200,000 coins. The time to engrave a fake coining die might have been 2 hours then toss the die in a dung heap for a month or so to age it a bit.

We know books and statues were faked all the time then buried or "lost" for a couple of hundred years then rediscovered. Why not huge fakery of coins sponsored by powerful state or religious entities?


"From the above amateur grade fakes which should deceive no one we progress to what I consider to be the saddest hour of the hobby in the nearly fifty years I have played with coins. I became aware of these coins in 1989 when I received an offer to sell a pair of EF specimens of the two diobols above for a special price of $500. I didn't spend that much on a coin unless it was a very special occasion so I did not buy a set. Shortly after that we started seeing less perfect specimens at prices that were a bit lower but I passed on them as well since my collecting interests at the time were not in Greek silver. Then we started hearing stories that some experts doubted that this group of coins was genuine. They were from a large hoard supposedly found near the Black Sea (hence the name "Black Sea Hoard") but experts noted that none of the dies represented in the hoard matched any of the coins of the two types that were known before the hoard came onto the market. Experts fought back and forth about whether or not the coins were genuine. It got a bit ugly. Dealers who sold the early examples offered refunds and there was a period when there was serious doubt about the status of the coins. I'm not expert enough in the reasoning and arguments to do a proper job here so I'll suggest those interested search of information on the "Black Sea Hoard" to see how it was determined that the coins were in fact fakes. "

So if the above modern coining dies were made to better match known ancient Black Sea coins then nobody would have been the wiser that they were fakes??

The above Black Sea fake coins could just as well be fake Julius Caesar coins made by the Jesuits or Benedictines or the Venetians or the Cistercians or the Templars or........ then buried for a couple of hundred years in various locations. Then somebody opens a letter in 1534 from 1332 with a "do not open this letter until 1534" stamp on the outside maybe located in the Vatican library. The letter has 10 different locations of fake Roman Dinari hoards to be dug up and announced as major finds of ancient Roman coins.

Maybe there is still a lot of this "do not open until 20XX" crap going on in the Vatican. How fun would that be?

Mistakes to avoid if you want to be a coin counterfeiter. Fake ancient coins | how they are first spotted | Calgary Coin & Antique
 
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battlecat

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I know this kind of coins (type synagogue of satan well known demonic Star) are very real, because jews/kenites are destroying every civilization: since thousand years ago playing with life of the people with currency game too, their favourite slavery system.

16509
 

KorbenDallas

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As far as statues and busts go, for the most part they have a date attached of when they were discovered. Normally one does not need to go far to obtain that info - Wikipedia will gladly provide some 29th century date.

Not that easy with coins. I would be interested to find out when the first recorded Roman coin discovery took place. I failed in my attempts to google this info out.

A very interesting thread this is. Thank you.
 
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tupperaware

tupperaware

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I know this kind of coins (type synagogue of satan well known demonic Star) are very real, because jews/kenites are destroying every civilization: since thousand years ago playing with life of the people with currency game too, their favourite slavery system.

Millions of old coins are real with many being incorrectly dated in time. I just wanted to point out that ancient coins pre 1000 might have been easily counterfeited with enough practice and incentive say 1200-1700. There might have been an incentive to create some "dated" coins from the period 1-1000 AD in an attempt to prove that time period existed. But coin collectors in the 13th century would have known better than to put dates on those coins since dated coins had never been seen up to that point.

As KD points out, getting the dates of the first Roman coin horde discoveries would be useful. I did a brief search but nothing came up. I did read that some hoards found and assumed to be ancient were assortments of many coins and "assumed' to be evidence of a collection.

Do you have some interesting links on cultures gaming with coins/currency?

The thinking goes.... We know for sure that some ancient books were forgeries then placed into book collections then the books are discovered many years later and then proven to be forgeries many years later. Some forgeries were too good and they continue to be used as source material by historians. It has to be the same with coins. Like these The coins of Emperor Charlemagne in the Fitzwilliam Museum | Archive CoinsWeekly Fomenko makes a good case that Charlemagne did not exist. What better way to prove that he did than to counterfeit some Charlemagne coins and bury them.

Fomenko has quite a bit to say on coins.

"Could it be true, then, that Russia was indeed a particularly barbaric state back in those days, one that had barely managed to emerge from the Stone Age? This would give birth to many strange phenomena that couldn’t have happened in the truly civilised countries of the Western Europe. However, this isn’t the case – history of gold coinage in mediaeval Europe paints the exact same picture. "

Section 12 Strange absence of golden coinage from the Western European currency of the VIII-XIII century
 

battlecat

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I was trying to be critic about "evil ancient master of this world" who did, do, will do whatever they want on the international economic system (they print money, make coins and more: never you goyim). I never attack good spirits 😇
 
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tupperaware

tupperaware

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I think the “fakeness” is not as much in authenticity as in dating. Dark Ages vs. Ancient Rome for example.
If books and letters and "shrouds" can be faked then coins can certainly be faked, buried and resurrected years later, just like statues. Mis-dating coins and coin hoards is "perhaps" more commonplace but it would seem that a very large quantity of Roman and Greek statues are pure "fakes" made in much later centuries. So why not coins? There could be as much to gain by the fakers to counterfeit coins as counterfeiting the rest.

A good question is what percentage of Roman and Greek coins are counterfeit? There is a chance the value of counterfeiting coins is not nearly as large as faking books and documents but maybe we are missing what that value might be.

For example and a stretch. Scaliger the creator of the not so new Chronology may have anticipated folks like Fomenko, casting doubt via his New Chronology that Scaliger's was credible. So Scaliger and company counterfeit coins and bury them here and there. These would be dug up a couple of hundred years later in zones which produce a few remains of Charlemagne's existence - besides coins. Who could possibly doubt the credibility of buried coins? Hoards of coins are used all the time by Fomenko naysayers. Besides being dated incorrectly, I am saying those hoards could have been faked.

Scaliger for sure would have anticipated Fomenko if there was something huge to gain from that anticipation. Scaliger was a smart guy.
 

KorbenDallas

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A good question is what percentage of Roman and Greek coins are counterfeit?
That was another point I should have made. We have two issues as I see it.
  • The true time frame of the authentic "ancient" coins
  • The amount of counterfeit coins produced
 
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tupperaware

tupperaware

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That was another point I should have made. We have two issues as I see it.
  • The true time frame of the authentic "ancient" coins
  • The amount of counterfeit coins produced
from
16528

Fomenko has major issues with Petrarch being a possible fraud in many interesting ways. If the above account is true what better way to establish coins as a method to fake history if only as an adjunct to faking historical documents? My guess is that Petrarch realized that in year one of starting his collection of "real" ancient coins.
 

KorbenDallas

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I think the so-called “Roman” coins present a strong mismatch with the so-called “Roman” architecture. Such a lopsided development is a suspect in my book.

This quality of coins better suits those people depicted on multiple ruin paintings.
 

Bald Eagle

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Hello all - I found this particular post interesting due to the reference to winegrowers, which might have some connection to the Tartary thread.

I was also interested by the connection with the origin of the name tartar sauce. As a formally trained organic chemist, I instantly wondered about the origin of the name for tartaric acid - whose monopotassium salt is often found in wine, as "cream of tartar".

A System of Chemistry

Bulletin

Tartaric acid was first isolated from potassium tartrate, known to the ancients as tartar, c. 800 by the Persian alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan, who was also responsible for numerous other basic chemical processes still in use today.
The sour taste of Tartaric Acid

Tartar, on the other hand, originates in Greek as well (tartaron), but as the term for the white encrustation inside casks, aka potassium bitartrate commonly known as cream of tartar. This came to be a term used for calcium phosphate on teeth in the early 19th century.
tartar | Origin and meaning of tartar by Online Etymology Dictionary

What do steak tartare, tartar sauce, and dental tartar have in common?

Thanks so much for running a site dedicated to openly investigating things that used to be so huge that I can't believe I've never heard of!
 
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tupperaware

tupperaware

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Hello all - I found this particular post interesting due to the reference to winegrowers, which might have some connection to the Tartary thread.

I was also interested by the connection with the origin of the name tartar sauce. As a formally trained organic chemist, I instantly wondered about the origin of the name for tartaric acid - whose monopotassium salt is often found in wine, as "cream of tartar".

A System of Chemistry

Bulletin

Tartaric acid was first isolated from potassium tartrate, known to the ancients as tartar, c. 800 by the Persian alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan, who was also responsible for numerous other basic chemical processes still in use today.
The sour taste of Tartaric Acid

Tartar, on the other hand, originates in Greek as well (tartaron), but as the term for the white encrustation inside casks, aka potassium bitartrate commonly known as cream of tartar. This came to be a term used for calcium phosphate on teeth in the early 19th century.
tartar | Origin and meaning of tartar by Online Etymology Dictionary

What do steak tartare, tartar sauce, and dental tartar have in common?

Thanks so much for running a site dedicated to openly investigating things that used to be so huge that I can't believe I've never heard of!
The sour taste of Tartaric Acid
"When cream of tartar is added to water, a suspension results which serves to clean copper coins very well. This is due to the fact that the tartrate solution can dissolve the layer of copper(II) oxide present on the surface of the coin. Copper(II)-tartrate complex that is formed is easily soluble in water. Tartaric acid in wine"

Interesting that Tatar is very close to Tamar as in Tamarind. The Tamarind tree produces a lot of the world's tartaric acid. Also interesting that the words "Tamaria" and "Tatarind" are so little used.


Here is a strong connection of tartar as in an impure form of tartaric acid and Great Tartaria....
Mongolian women (IceNine already posted this link at a different thread)
"An interesting observation about this was made by Giovanni DiPlano Carpini in his "The story of the Mongols whom we call Tartars." (See the bibliography page) Carpini, who visited the Mongols at Pope Innocent IV's command between 1245-1247, was thus able to write from the unique position of being the first European to produce a firsthand report about the Mongols after their Great European campaign 1234-1242. On page 54, he observes: "Girls and women ride and gallop as skillfully as men. We even saw them carrying quivers and bows, and the women can ride horses for as long as the men; they have shorter stirrups, handle horses very well, and mind all the property. The Tartar (Erroneous term for Mongols, but often encountered) women make everything: skin clothes, shoes, leggings, and everything made of leather. They drive carts and repair them, they load camels, and are quick and vigorous in all their tasks. They all wear trousers, and some of them shoot just like men.""

Tartaric acid or Tatar is might have been used for leather tanning, slowing down the setting of cement and an antimicrobial agent (food preservation) in the land of Tartaria. Most likely source from grapes - grape juice and wine making - How is tartaric acid obtained from grape juice? - Quora .

Something supporting KD's theory that the Sahara was much much wetter only a few hundred years ago. The Tamarind tree is thought to be a tree originating in "arid" Northern Africa yet it thrives in much wetter environments as if it was native not to arid North Africa but to a mysterious "wet" North Africa....

Tamarind TreeTamarind Tree
16754

Post automatically merged:

Hello all - I found this particular post interesting due to the reference to winegrowers, which might have some connection to the Tartary thread.

I was also interested by the connection with the origin of the name tartar sauce. As a formally trained organic chemist, I instantly wondered about the origin of the name for tartaric acid - whose monopotassium salt is often found in wine, as "cream of tartar".


Tartar, on the other hand, originates in Greek as well (tartaron), but as the term for the white encrustation inside casks, aka potassium bitartrate commonly known as cream of tartar. This came to be a term used for calcium phosphate on teeth in the early 19th century.
tartar | Origin and meaning of tartar by Online Etymology Dictionary


Tartar, Cream of Tartar, potassium bitartrate, can be made in large quantities from wine pressings, the leftover skins after crushing the juice out.
Its possible since vineyards do well in Siberia Coming soon: 'Chateau Permafrost', wine from Siberia that at one point in time Great Tartaria was called that since it was a main source for what would have been one of the most useful chemicals in the world for perhaps thousands of years - Cream O' Tarter.

Thanks for the inspiration Bald Eagle to search a bit on this.

And here is where it gets a bit wild. There is what's called Rochelle Salt (Potassium sodium tartrate tetrahydrate )which is made from purified cream of tarter and baking soda. Cream of tarter again can be massed produced from wine making or really just grape juice manufacture. Baking soda can be obtained from what's called Natron - the Eqyptians would use it for mummification and probably a host of other uses. Natron - Wikipedia
Potassium sodium tartrate tetrahydrate major details on Rochelle Salt

As it turns out crystals of Rochelle Salt are the most potent piezoelectric transducers we know of. Heat the crystal and it emits "electricity". Apply electricity and it changes shape.

My guess/theory is that at one time Greater Tartaria was a major source not only for Cream of Tarter used for leather tanning, and as a food preservative but perhaps also Rochelle salt crystals used as an electrical source for various purposes. The timing might have been a thousand years for the cream of tarter as an "industrial chemical" then due to the precise steps needed to make the Rochelle Piezo crystals perhaps that occurred from 1400 on. Its not a stretch at all for Greater Tartaria to be an important source for cream of tartar. Its a major stretch for Rochelle crystals.

Believe it or not - wood based Rochelle salt crystal piezo electricity generation systems.

rochelle salt crystal: Topics by Science.gov
Eco-friendly materials for large area piezoelectronics: self-oriented Rochelle salt in wood
NASA Astrophysics Data System (ADS)
Lemaire, E.; Ayela, C.; Atli, A.
2018-02-01
"Upgraded biodegradable piezoelectric composite materials elaborated by incorporation of Rochelle salt (RS, Sodium potassium tartrate tetrahydrate) in wood were reported. RS crystals, known as the first discovered piezoelectric material, were grown in the micro-cavities of wood, having naturally a tubular structure, by soaking the wood into RS saturated water. Since most of the cavities in wood are oriented in the same direction, the piezoelectric effect was improved when the cavities were filled by RS crystals. The mechanical, structural and piezoelectric properties of RS incorporated wood composite samples were characterized. Both direct and converse piezoelectric effects are illustrated. The wood-base composite exhibits an effective piezoelectric constant d 33 of 11 pC N-1. Also, the flexural strength and modulus of elasticity were enhanced by inserting RS into the wood, nevertheless the samples became more brittle. The wood-based piezoelectric samples prepared in this work can be used as actuators, sensors or energy harvesters. The process developed here permits us to manufacture large area piezoelectric devices which are environmentally and economically unsurpassed."



All of this could have been done in decent alchemy labs anywhere in the world and those have been around for a thousand years. Perhaps Greater Tartaria was an important source for exported cream of tartar.

Imagine ancient structures made from "Piezowood" where just walking on the timbers created useful amounts of electricity and maybe Tartaria was at one time the worlds specialists in this form of energy production.

Cream of tarter is also a good coin cleaning agent. A nod to the thread title.
Post automatically merged:

Hello all - I found this particular post interesting due to the reference to winegrowers, which might have some connection to the Tartary thread.

I was also interested by the connection with the origin of the name tartar sauce. As a formally trained organic chemist, I instantly wondered about the origin of the name for tartaric acid - whose monopotassium salt is often found in wine, as "cream of tartar".

A System of Chemistry

Bulletin

Tartaric acid was first isolated from potassium tartrate, known to the ancients as tartar, c. 800 by the Persian alchemist Jabir ibn Hayyan, who was also responsible for numerous other basic chemical processes still in use today.
The sour taste of Tartaric Acid

Tartar, on the other hand, originates in Greek as well (tartaron), but as the term for the white encrustation inside casks, aka potassium bitartrate commonly known as cream of tartar. This came to be a term used for calcium phosphate on teeth in the early 19th century.
tartar | Origin and meaning of tartar by Online Etymology Dictionary

What do steak tartare, tartar sauce, and dental tartar have in common?

Thanks so much for running a site dedicated to openly investigating things that used to be so huge that I can't believe I've never heard of!

@Bald Eagle, why not start a thread on this (your idea) to connect the name "Tartaria" to potassium salts? As you know as a chemist potassium salts like cream of tartar have a huge range of uses. It seems like all it takes is a vineyard and a region can start producing for export. The connection between Rochelle crystals and Tartaria if some connections can be made would be huge. Your chemistry expertise would be very useful. I have a bit of ultrasound transducer experience.
 
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Silvanus777

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Renegade Jesuit troublemaker Jean Hardouin (1624 - 1729) dedicated large volumes of scholarly works to the topics of forged "classic" literature, artefacts, statues, "ancient" stone inscriptions and also forged antique coinage.

Hardouin, a highly reputed scholar during his day, not only declared almost all works of antiquity (except for Pliny's Natural History, Cicero and a few others) but also large parts of the biblical canon (he was especially outraged about the Pauline epistles) as later forgeries, whom he accredited to various monkish factions of the 13th century and onward, even naming names such as the Archon Severus etc., but had to recant later in life, which he did only outwardly.

Regarding ancient coins, he wrote at least two large, scholary volumes that I know of, in which he identifies a large percentage of antique Greek and Roman coins as purely recent forgeries, most of which came straight out of then known forger workshops in Northern Italy, most notoriously Florence among other locations. Said books are (to my knowledge) only available in the original latin: "De Nummis Aniquis" ("Of Ancient Coins"), published 1684, and "Chronologiae ex Nummis Antiquiis Restituto" ("Chronology Restored from Ancient Coinage"), published 1693. In the latter work, Hardouin attempts to restore the true history/chronology based on numismatic analysis, or at least get a closer approximation to the truth. I have ordered facsimiles of both volumes, and am planning to decode and wrench at least some useful information from them, as far as my limited latin permits.

In any case, it seems that 17th and 18th century, discussions and serious doubts regarding the authenticity of ancient coins, artefacts and sculptures was much more common than today in the academic or scholarly world...

An interesting anecdote regarding coin forgery is also found in German author Uwe Topper's "Die Große Aktion - Europas Erfundene Geschichte" (losely translated - don't know if there's an English version - "The Grand Campaign - Europe's Invented History"): The Roman Church of the Renaissance and early Modern period had great political interest to cement the notion of early persectuion of Christians by the Romans and the thusly gained martyrdom of said early Christians. The Church invented numerous Martyrs and their stories/legends out of thin air and also employed coinsmiths to support their agenda/narratives. Thus in 1637, the Vatican hired a coinsmith to fabricate wonderfully triumphant but fake Roman coins of Diocletian denoting "CHRISTIANORUM SUPERSTITIONE DELETA" ("Superstition of the Christians Destroyed"). By this and many other sly tricks, the Roman Church established many of their later doctrines and political needs by retroactively creating history along with artefacts to support it...

In general, I would suggest that wherever there is a market, that is, money to be made, you will get professionals tapping said market. Here I mean that if we consider coin collecting to be a hobby even wealthy or highborn Renaissance folks used to practice with a passion, then you would expect forger workshops to start producing (particularly ancient looking) fake coins en masse and try to sell them off to gullible buyers. In crafty ways even, such as secretly burying them for a few years or decades, then having an agent of theirs recover them "by accident" in his cabbage patch or whatever and sell the hoard off to private collectors or to royal/church collections/museums/etc. This by the way was basically the selfsame modus operandi that was (and is) commonly employed regarding "ancient" manuscripts or artifacts, from the Renaissance, when there was an unsatiable hunger for antiques, up until most recent times when almost two millenia old papyri of biblical or other nature miraculously emerge from "ancient" egyptian dungheaps, miraculously well-preserved.

Well, just some thoughts regarding forged ancient coins based on my research so far...

Oh, one more thing:

16930


Sowing (Gold) Coins... A very popular alchemical motive in the 16th - 18th century. Here from Michael Maier, "Atlanta Fugiens", 1617.

Taunting us with secrets in plain sight once again, eh? Or unconnected to the matter altogether? Who knows. All I know is that these Enlightenment Era people often were great joksters and that I can personally testify to finding coins (via metal detector) scattered all over in plain, old fields! ;-)
 
OP
tupperaware

tupperaware

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Seems like per below that Florence 1500-1700 was a hotbed for coin forgery and probably also "ancient" music notation although coins by tonnage much more.
"What about the tunes – the melody and harmony? This is what most people mean when they claim that ancient Greek “music” is lost. Thousands of words about the theory of melody and harmony survive in the writings of ancient authors such as Plato, Aristotle, Aristoxenus, Ptolemy, and Aristides Quintilianus; and a few fragmentary scores with ancient musical notation first came to light in Florence in the late 16th century. But this evidence for actual music gave no real sense of the melodic and harmonic riches that we learn of from literary sources. "
What ancient Greek music REALLY sounded like
Regarding ancient coins, he wrote at least two large, scholary volumes that I know of, in which he identifies a large percentage of antique Greek and Roman coins as purely recent forgeries, most of which came straight out of then known forger workshops in Northern Italy, most notoriously Florence among other locations. Said books are (to my knowledge) only available in the original latin: "De Nummis Aniquis" ("Of Ancient Coins"), published 1684, and "Chronologiae ex Nummis Antiquiis Restituto" ("Chronology Restored from Ancient Coinage"), published 1693. In the latter work, Hardouin attempts to restore the true history/chronology based on numismatic analysis, or at least get a closer approximation to the truth. I have ordered facsimiles of both volumes, and am planning to decode and wrench at least some useful information from them, as far as my limited latin permits.
Post automatically merged:

BTW, court
Renegade Jesuit troublemaker Jean Hardouin (1624 - 1729) dedicated large volumes of scholarly works to the topics of forged "classic" literature, artefacts, statues, "ancient" stone inscriptions and also forged antique coinage.

Hardouin, a highly reputed scholar during his day, not only declared almost all works of antiquity (except for Pliny's Natural History, Cicero and a few others) but also large parts of the biblical canon (he was especially outraged about the Pauline epistles) as later forgeries, whom he accredited to various monkish factions of the 13th century and onward, even naming names such as the Archon Severus etc., but had to recant later in life, which he did only outwardly.

Regarding ancient coins, he wrote at least two large, scholary volumes that I know of, in which he identifies a large percentage of antique Greek and Roman coins as purely recent forgeries, most of which came straight out of then known forger workshops in Northern Italy, most notoriously Florence among other locations. Said books are (to my knowledge) only available in the original latin: "De Nummis Aniquis" ("Of Ancient Coins"), published 1684, and "Chronologiae ex Nummis Antiquiis Restituto" ("Chronology Restored from Ancient Coinage"), published 1693. In the latter work, Hardouin attempts to restore the true history/chronology based on numismatic analysis, or at least get a closer approximation to the truth. I have ordered facsimiles of both volumes, and am planning to decode and wrench at least some useful information from them, as far as my limited latin permits.

In any case, it seems that 17th and 18th century, discussions and serious doubts regarding the authenticity of ancient coins, artefacts and sculptures was much more common than today in the academic or scholarly world...

An interesting anecdote regarding coin forgery is also found in German author Uwe Topper's "Die Große Aktion - Europas Erfundene Geschichte" (losely translated - don't know if there's an English version - "The Grand Campaign - Europe's Invented History"): The Roman Church of the Renaissance and early Modern period had great political interest to cement the notion of early persectuion of Christians by the Romans and the thusly gained martyrdom of said early Christians. The Church invented numerous Martyrs and their stories/legends out of thin air and also employed coinsmiths to support their agenda/narratives. Thus in 1637, the Vatican hired a coinsmith to fabricate wonderfully triumphant but fake Roman coins of Diocletian denoting "CHRISTIANORUM SUPERSTITIONE DELETA" ("Superstition of the Christians Destroyed"). By this and many other sly tricks, the Roman Church established many of their later doctrines and political needs by retroactively creating history along with artefacts to support it...

In general, I would suggest that wherever there is a market, that is, money to be made, you will get professionals tapping said market. Here I mean that if we consider coin collecting to be a hobby even wealthy or highborn Renaissance folks used to practice with a passion, then you would expect forger workshops to start producing (particularly ancient looking) fake coins en masse and try to sell them off to gullible buyers. In crafty ways even, such as secretly burying them for a few years or decades, then having an agent of theirs recover them "by accident" in his cabbage patch or whatever and sell the hoard off to private collectors or to royal/church collections/museums/etc. This by the way was basically the selfsame modus operandi that was (and is) commonly employed regarding "ancient" manuscripts or artifacts, from the Renaissance, when there was an unsatiable hunger for antiques, up until most recent times when almost two millenia old papyri of biblical or other nature miraculously emerge from "ancient" egyptian dungheaps, miraculously well-preserved.

Well, just some thoughts regarding forged ancient coins based on my research so far...

Oh, one more thing:

View attachment 16930

Sowing (Gold) Coins... A very popular alchemical motive in the 16th - 18th century. Here from Michael Maier, "Atlanta Fugiens", 1617.

Taunting us with secrets in plain sight once again, eh? Or unconnected to the matter altogether? Who knows. All I know is that these Enlightenment Era people often were great joksters and that I can personally testify to finding coins (via metal detector) scattered all over in plain, old fields! ;-)
Courtesy of that great TV show "The Curse of Oak Island" I can say reliably that there "might" be certain metal alloy and impurity tests that may show major differences in the alloys used to fake Roman and Greek coins in Florence and elsewhere and "real" Roman and Greek coins. In other words it might be easy at around $2,000 a pop to send two coins to a materials lab in perhaps Germany to get some useful information on the alloy content. If silver it would be silver plus impurity analysis. The place in Germany may already have analyzed typical silver alloys known to exist in Florence for coin manufacture. If that fingerprint shows up when testing a so called "ancient" Roman coin then bingo - its a fraud. If I had around $100,000 spare change I might do that.
 
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