Alexander the Great: Fictional Action Hero

Huaqero

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Meet BACTRA , or Bactria, Bactriana, ancient capital of the Bactrian Kingdom. Today it is called Balkh, in Afghanistan.

Screenshot_60.jpg

It is an 1km wide elevated empty disk with starfort looks and heavy erosion.

Screenshot_55.jpg

Not many photos or videos are available of it, especially of the flat centre part, and not much explanation about when it was built, by whom, and how it eroded.

screenshot-www.bing.com-2019-10-09-20-14-21-516.jpeg

(and what are these double lines on there?)

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Now, meet OLD KANDAHAR ...
Screenshot_58.jpg

It is a big rock next to the city of Kandahar with some citadel formations on top, again, heavily eroded...

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Now, meet AI-KHANOUM ...
screenshot-www.bing.com-2019-10-09-20-31-11-165.jpeg

It is an ancient site in Afghanistan, on the borders with Pakistan ...

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And finally, meet MERW, or MERV in Turkmenistan...
screenshot-www.bing.com-2019-10-09-20-43-01-858.jpeg

It is this huge complex of an open and a walled citadel, empty and heavily eroded again...

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What do these have in common?

They are all ALEXANDRIAS...
Actually, some of the many Alexandrias that Alexander the Great either established or renamed during his conquests.
(And we do not need to discuss the, most famous, Alexandria in Egypt right now...)
It was the sat view of Bactra that struck me;
I wasn't searching for it, I was just 'floating' above the Afghani landscape for strange patterns.
The name of Bactra was familiar, because of the Alexander stories, however, I didn't expect to find a huge starfort-like ... thing as 'Bactra'.
How can you call this thing a 'citadel', where are the habitable structures?
Where are the detailed photos from inside the plateau?
Only some few (really impressive) photos of the 'walls'...

Balkh+Province.jpg

BalkRuins3nnn.jpg



The same goes on with Old Kandahar... A melted-like erosion...
800px-Ruins_of_old_Kandahar_Citadel_in_1881.jpg

And Merw... (from the ground Merw doesn't even look like a man made structure, it looks like a volcanic caldera...)

screenshot-www.google.com-2019-10-09-21-47-10-088.jpeg

These images give me a strong impression of a great scale devastation in the area, either cataclysmic or cosmic and these empty, melted-like 'citadels' are the remains of it...

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Let's leave these for a while and focus on Alexander's story of conquest in Asia:
  • He defeated the Persians and the rest, established many cities, influenced the people and cultures and left behind kingdoms and a long lasting legacy called 'Hellenistic' ...

All within about 10 years, with one army and with one pass...

Does this sound ridiculous only to me?

Combining
- the look of Alexandrias
- the absurdity of Alexander's story
- the eternal search for his lost Tomb
- the scarcity of detailed knowledge, artifacts but also discussion,
about such big and influential kingdoms
- the greco-roman look of the Hellenistic buildings and artifacts that is associated, within the stolen history community, with the historic anomalies that we research
- the extended rewriting of history through centuries (also note that his main biographer, Arrian was born in 86...AD!)

... I came to the thought that ...

Alexander the Great did not exist (or his story was largely exaggerated) but was a made up story in order to explain the structures and artifacts of an advanced but lost european civilisation that are found so deep in Asia.

grecobactriankingdom5.jpg

They made up a ridiculous story of an army that conquered these vast areas and 'marked' them with 'european style'. As if a single pass of an always victorious army is enough to establish not only cities but also kingdoms, and influence the conquered people into a new culture for generations to come!

And what is 'Hellenistic' in history?
It is the cover name of the lost civilisation, whether its traces are found in Afghanistan or in Anatolia or in Egypt or in Sicily!

And which civilisation was that ?
In Asia it was the Indo-Europeans! NOT the 'prehistoric common linguistic ancestors of Europeans and Indians' but the lost civilisation of THE EUROPEANS OF INDIA like we say, 'North/East/West/etc Europeans'.

We, Europeans, didn't conquer and influence those places with 'Alexander'... We were always there, until the destruction that left those few traces!

My guess is that, together with the fabrication of Alexander's story, they also diminished the IndoEuropean people and civilisation into a vague linguistic discussion which always sounded nonsensical (to me).

A few common simple proto-words can be explained by accepting the influence of a great civilisation onto the smaller ones of the region.

Down the rabbit hole you can also meet things like Greco-Buddhism, which may add to the research...
Greco-Buddhism - Wikipedia
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So, a Greek like me offers a proposal that rejects the story of Alexander the Great (I wonder about the replies...) But I couldn't care less about Alexander since this idea is actually an introduction into a probable hidden piece of the actual history of the Europeans which excites me more...

(Maybe this should have been the title of this post)

[END]
 
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mickeyflood

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Combining
- the look of Alexandrias
- the absurdity of Alexander's story
- the eternal search for his lost Tomb
- the scarcity of detailed knowledge, artifacts but also discussion,
about such big and influential kingdoms
- the greco-roman look of the Hellenistic buildings and artifacts that is associated, within the stolen history community, with the historic anomalies that we research
- the extended rewriting of history through centuries (also note that his main biographer, Arrian was born in 86...AD!)

At the final pieces of your post the idea of Alexander's "teacher", came to my mind; Aristotle, "the best purpose" (that is creepy and yet convenient)
Once this thought entered in, and I do agree with you, Huaqero, as to your ideas regarding the absurdity of "the Great boy" and his works, I knew, that I had to let the wind take my thread of thought, in so far as, that if something is fishy with the student, I could guess, that something could be fisher with the teacher.
Therefore I write, that with all the accolades Aristotle receives, still today, for all that he had accomplished/established, having the "greatest student" that ever was, being perhaps the "greatest teacher" that ever was, the father of science (o shit!) influenced Western culture for millenia, (sounds like a religion) and so on, I begin to see a connection that I dare say, shall also be looked into, as well as the others; the "ancient wisdom/teachers" of this and that.
I had followed many of these fellas and their ideas with occasional small dives into their teachings and how I could apply it to make life better. Alast, nothing came from it. Though for some reason I still do have some strong belief in Socrates: I guess from being the one I looked tp the most. But it seems more so, that they were all rapists and theifs. - Too radical? I await the comments. -
This post is also inspired partly by a piece I read here, in stolen history, regarding the "ancient" world and that it could in fact be only a few hundred years old and that they had made up the ancient Greek and Rome dialogue or stole it from the actual events, which are hidden for now (and who knows what else).
So there it is.. calling out not only Alex with his toys, but also calling out his proclaimed and acclaimed super teacher, Airheadstotle
 
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Huaqero

Huaqero

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At the final pieces of your post the idea of Alexander's "teacher", came to my mind; Aristotle, "the best purpose" (that is creepy and yet convenient)
Once this thought entered in, and I do agree with you, Huaqero, as to your ideas regarding the absurdity of "the Great boy" and his works, I knew, that I had to let the wind take my thread of thought, in so far as, that if something is fishy with the student, I could guess, that something could be fisher with the teacher.
Therefore I write, that with all the accolades Aristotle receives, still today, for all that he had accomplished/established, having the "greatest student" that ever was, being perhaps the "greatest teacher" that ever was, the father of science (o shit!) influenced Western culture for millenia, (sounds like a religion) and so on, I begin to see a connection that I dare say, shall also be looked into, as well as the others; the "ancient wisdom/teachers" of this and that.
I had followed many of these fellas and their ideas with occasional small dives into their teachings and how I could apply it to make life better. Alast, nothing came from it. Though for some reason I still do have some strong belief in Socrates: I guess from being the one I looked tp the most. But it seems more so, that they were all rapists and theifs. - Too radical? I await the comments. -
This post is also inspired partly by a piece I read here, in stolen history, regarding the "ancient" world and that it could in fact be only a few hundred years old and that they had made up the ancient Greek and Rome dialogue or stole it from the actual events, which are hidden for now (and who knows what else).
So there it is.. calling out not only Alex with his toys, but also calling out his proclaimed and acclaimed super teacher, Airheadstotle
Following this way of thinking, I would guess that many pieces of the ancient literature come from previous, lost civilisations, either copied or adapted.
Aristotle may have been a collector of knowledge and wisdom, not an original writer, and his works may have been an encyclopedia of that time.
'Aristotle', like we say 'Larousse'.
I don't see why we should be negative about that, though...
 

mickeyflood

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Following this way of thinking, I would guess that many pieces of the ancient literature come from previous, lost civilisations, either copied or adapted.
Aristotle may have been a collector of knowledge and wisdom, not an original writer, and his works may have been an encyclopedia of that time.
'Aristotle', like we say 'Larousse'.
I don't see why we should be negative about that, though...

Ah, the negative thoughts that came to you, due to my reply, were not my intentions at all. Simply, I write nearly as I speak, no holds bar and without censor - though I do proof read too much to try and not sound to scrambly -. Those strong words of rapist and thieves, if that is what you are alluding to or rather my reply post as a whole, are simply lables of who I think they are and what they did. Certainly some can think, that this is quite negative, but on my side I think what these people have done to distort history, hijack our stories and attempt to use them against us in order to keep us submissive, is far more in the way of brutality, than any rapist, murder or thief could ever imagaine. So, please do not take my words as me just slandering and cussing. They are just my words and I try my best, in my truth, to not stir the pot of negativity. This stuff gets me going and my passion for this stuff goes through the roof.
The main point is, that I had never thought about it so simply as you put it, Huaqero; that Aristotle was a collector of wisdom and he might've been a living walking encyclopedia. Damn cool thought. Moreover this had me think then of Shakespeare and his collections of published stories and perhaps someone gave him all this undue credit.
Continuing the search
 

codis

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These images give me a strong impression of a great scale devastation in the area, either cataclysmic or cosmic and these empty, melted-like 'citadels' are the remains of it...
To me, this reminds me very much on CGI-rendered images in flight simulators. Except perhaps a small section in the foreground.

I didn't look much into the "Alexander" figure yet. Perhaps the story is based on some scoundrel that existed at some point in time, but I swallow the hero & conqueror story as much ancient Greek history in general. Meaning, not at all.
 
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Huaqero

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I think we could have a real with a made up narrative. Otherwise he would have to be a giant with an army of giants to achieve what he allegedly did. The other possible scenario would be a totally different tech used by his army. Strength will always be in numbers when you have a sword for a weapon.
I had not read that thread of yours, just a quick reply before reading it (the logistics of Alexander's wars look... entertaining, lol...)

However, Korben, I would really like your thoughts on the IndoEuropean matter, which is actually my main focus,
even though it started as thoughts on Alexander.

If the Indoeuropean linguistic hypothesis is used to cover the true nature of 'Indoeuropeans'
as an advanced, but lost to some kind of cataclysm, european civilisation in Asia,
then this sounds far more important to me than the life of an individual, fictional or true.

(maybe I should change the title of the thread, but the name of Alexander is... catchier)
To me, this reminds me very much on CGI-rendered images in flight simulators. Except perhaps a small section in the foreground.

I didn't look much into the "Alexander" figure yet. Perhaps the story is based on some scoundrel that existed at some point in time, but I swallow the hero & conqueror story as much ancient Greek history in general. Meaning, not at all.
The lack of imagery from these places is annoying, I guess it only has little to do with the Talibans in the area,
I mean, where is the imagery before the Talibans?
Old Kandahar has been excavated back in 1977 and the results can be found in this site, with a retro feeling...
Archaeological Excavations Kandahar, Afghanistan 1977
Little to none mentioning of Alexander, yet this rock has been linked to him in wiki.
Aristotle was a collector of wisdom and he might've been a living walking encyclopedia
A bit derailing but anything can pleasantly and fruitfully derail you in this site...

Not more 'living walking encyclopedia' than a contemporary scholar, I would say.
A civilisation of higher intellect would easily cope with dense and 'difficult' texts,
unlike ours which needs bullets and alphabetic order to categorize and record knowledge.
Imagine Mr. Larousse having his encyclopedia team write it down as a philosophical flowing text.
Future scholars would think that Mr Larousse was a polymath genius and a cornerstone of humanity.
 
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codis

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The lack of imagery from these places is annoying, I guess it only has little to do with the Talibans in the area,
Google is known to falsify maps/views of regions deemed restricted areas by the military.
Google was founded with CIA money - and IMHO is still upheld with CIA dirty money.
So, I do not base any research on Google maps, and have kind of distrust in anything else found via Google.
 

codis

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Slightly off tangent here, but the humorous comments and memes about Chuck Norris have me thinking that perhaps Alexander the Great was the 'Chuck Norris' of his age. Some achievements are embellished to blatant excess.
Might be not so far off.
As a kid I had been reading a lot, including fairytales and myth of foreign cultures/countries. Including some from the then Soviet Union, especially the non-slavic countries Asian part.
A common theme is a the super-strong and brave hero, who defeats a dreadful animal (like a bear or an elephant) at age of 5, and several adult men. And as an adult, he leads armies against evil enemies, defeating them almost single-handed ... yada yada yada
 
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Huaqero

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I missed out adding the Kalash people into the question...!
Kalash people - Wikipedia

For years they had been linked to descendants of the Macedonian expedition.
However, recent genetic tests seem to have put these theories to an end.
The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection

Instead, their case seems to support ... my theory!
Not only are the Kalash not linked to Alexander's army, they are probably some of the earliest Europeans!
What's more, their language is considered Indo-european.
Kalasha-mun - Wikipedia

So, still, no traces of Alexander, not even genetic ones... But, yes, traces of 'extremely drifted ancient europeans' in Asia.


screenshot-www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov-2019-10-11-18-38-05-140.jpeg
 

toybrandon

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Google is known to falsify maps/views of regions deemed restricted areas by the military.
Google was founded with CIA money - and IMHO is still upheld with CIA dirty money.
So, I do not base any research on Google maps, and have kind of distrust in anything else found via Google.
While I generally agree with you, the individual images within Google earth may have something to offer. At levels higher than that, its anywhere from misleading to an actual cartoon globe earth. Definitely of spook origins though.
 

codis

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While I generally agree with you, the individual images within Google earth may have something to offer. At levels higher than that, its anywhere from misleading to an actual cartoon globe earth. Definitely of spook origins though.
Sure, just wanted to mention Google maps is not the "Golden Reference" source to compare with.
It is for the general public, and contains what the public is supposed to know/believe.
One should keep that in mind when using it.
 

HollyHoly

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I googled Wickedpedia the name Alexander and found this

Rulers of antiquity
and I found out that all the Alexanders 1 thru 5 are related, Alexander I of Epirus was Alexander III uncle and Alexander of Pherae was a political ally of Alexander II and was Alexander III uncle as well so Macedon and Thessalonia were overtaken by crazy Alexanders fighting among themselves (because I followed all the links) its hilarious reading . But with all these related Alexanders can we be sure that the Alexander III story as history claims ? Never mind how can a guy who is barely three decades old cover all the ground they say he did, while drunk, I also think it could be the Holy Grail of European legend like the OP Haqureo thinks,.. could be. I think so many Alexanders interacting with each other in roughly the same time frame establishing dynasties could tie in with Korben Dallas thread Artemis Clone factory. If as some forum members think his mother was cult priestess that fits the narrative ,that is kind of building itself , that there is this connection to breeding/ creating /bloodline, worship kinda thing going on. So many Alexanders related to each other all fighting and conquesting and jockeying for supremacy isn't proof of cloning but it does make me go, hmmmm.

main-qimg-99db8c9d1b93c041153ae63306736f9a-c.jpg

So if you look at it like this you can just see that that a twenty something does not simply go take over the world ,nuh huh. But there is some smoke that could be a clone fire, and as is so often the case female witchcraft hanky panky (nasty rumors )behind the scenes. But its easier to believe that multiple interchangeable Alexanders were all operating in roughly the same time frame maybe could explain a city called Alexandria However Alexandria is a another name Hera the wife of Zeus. That is also a plausible reason why so many Alexandria's everywhere if there is already an Alexandria when you get there then you definitely have less work to do.
 
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Huaqero

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I googled Wickedpedia the name Alexander and found this
Rulers of antiquity

and I found out that all the Alexanders 1 thru 5 are related, Alexander I of Epirus was Alexander III uncle and Alexander of Pherae was a political ally of Alexander II and was Alexander III uncle as well so Macedon and Thessalonia were overtaken by crazy Alexanders fighting among themselves (because I followed all the links) its hilarious reading . But with all these related Alexanders can we be sure that the Alexander III story as history claims ? Never mind how can a guy who is barely three decades old cover all the ground they say he did, while drunk, I also think it could be the Holy Grail of European legend like the OP Haqureo thinks,.. could be. I think so many Alexanders interacting with each other in roughly the same time frame establishing dynasties could tie in with Korben Dallas thread Artemis Clone factory. If as some forum members think his mother was cult priestess that fits the narrative ,that is kind of building itself , that there is this connection to breeding/ creating /bloodline, worship kinda thing going on. So many Alexanders related to each other all fighting and conquesting and jockeying for supremacy isn't proof of cloning but it does make me go, hmmmm.
View attachment 31560

So if you look at it like this you can just see that that a twenty something does not simply go take over the world ,nuh huh. But there is some smoke that could be a clone fire, and as is so often the case female witchcraft hanky panky (nasty rumors )behind the scenes. But its easier to believe that multiple interchangeable Alexanders were all operating in roughly the same time frame maybe could explain a city called Alexandria However Alexandria is a another name Hera the wife of Zeus. That is also a plausible reason why so many Alexandria's everywhere if there is already an Alexandria when you get there then you definitely have less work to do.
Alaksandu? So interesting...!
And Paris of Troy, also called Alexander? Wow, part of our mythology and only a few clicks away in online encyclopedias but...first time I read that! Sooo interesting, too!
Thanks for pointing these out and opening the matter even more. I'll have to do some more reading, even though I don't get into biographic details of minor historic figures, as I lately get the feeling that they are mostly verbal distractions on more global events and a maze of convoluted info from which you cannot get out with conclusions.
Not much time now for more digging, in the mean time please add any other thought of yours...
 

codis

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Alaksandu? So interesting...!
And Paris of Troy, also called Alexander? Wow, part of our mythology and only a few clicks away in online encyclopedias but...first time I read that! Sooo interesting, too!
As a side note, names of cities can and do change. After the end of the communist dictatorship in the Eastern Bloc, several cities changed their names, as the hagiography got updated.
Try to find Stalingrad on the map ... or "Karl-Marx-Stadt", for that matter.

My point - the widespread use of a first name (Alexander) to name a city (Alexandria) proves ... exactly nothing.

By the way, I would add Dshingis Khan to the list of fictional action heros.
His empire had a similar size - supposedly.
 
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Huaqero

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My point - the widespread use of a first name (Alexander) to name a city (Alexandria) proves ... exactly nothing.
Yes, mainly because we are in a point where we can prove nothing, or even make substantial progress, unless prohibited excavations occur and forbidden books are read. Until then, it's just an interesting online detective game for us...
I would add Dshingis Khan to the list of fictional action heros
Yes, again, look how peaceful people the Mongolians are. It seems that someone scapegoated them, in the past
 

codis

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Yes, again, look how peaceful people the Mongolians are. It seems that someone scapegoated them, in the past
At least misused the name.
If you look closer at the map and the population distribution of current Mongolia, you begin to wonder where those tens/hundreds of thousands fierce warriors came from. Over decades, mind you, re-filling the gaps.
And even worse, if you look at the current Mongolian archery tradition, supposedly their very unique advantage, it gets ridiculous. Neither is there any mounted archery tradition (like e.g. in Turkey, Persia, Japan, Hungary etc.), they can't even agree on a proper shooting style. Doing archery myself (and also East Asian thumb style), what you see there today never ever works on horseback. It is imported Manchu archery, degraded both in style and equipment (the current "Mongolian bow" is a smaller, less efficient version of the Manchu bow).
Many of the Mongolian nomads have an unbroken tradition for centuries with very little influence by civilisation, they would never drop their most "sacred" achievements.
 

tupperaware

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I missed out adding the Kalash people into the question...!
Kalash people - Wikipedia

For years they had been linked to descendants of the Macedonian expedition.
However, recent genetic tests seem to have put these theories to an end.
The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection

Instead, their case seems to support ... my theory!
Not only are the Kalash not linked to Alexander's army, they are probably some of the earliest Europeans!
What's more, their language is considered Indo-european.
Kalasha-mun - Wikipedia

So, still, no traces of Alexander, not even genetic ones... But, yes, traces of 'extremely drifted ancient europeans' in Asia.


View attachment 31448


In the article you posted - The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection - it shows testing suggesting for 20,000 years the Kalash population was limited to 10,000 people and under. What tricks of the trade have been used to maintain that kind of population stability? Abduction, infanticide, disease, immigration, herbal birth control?

"The Kalash Are an Ancient Genetic Isolate
PSMC analysis applied to the high-coverage Kalash, three African genomes (YRI, LWK, and MKK), and six non-African genomes showed that the Kalash, like other non-Africans, experienced a severe bottleneck 50,000–70,000 years ago. The Kalash recovered slightly after the bottleneck but never achieved an effective population size above 20,000, as observed in the GIH (the other South Asian genome) and other non-African genomes, except the MXL (Figure 2A). The Kalash have maintained a low effective size below 10,000 for more than 20,000 years before the present. This pattern of unusually small effective population size in the Kalash is also supported by the estimate from the decay of LD, which was significantly lower (p = < 2 × 10−14) than that of neighboring populations from Pakistan (Figure 2B), although the estimated absolute sizes differed between the two approaches."
 
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Huaqero

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In the article you posted - The Kalash Genetic Isolate: Ancient Divergence, Drift, and Selection - it shows testing suggesting for 20,000 years the Kalash population was limited to 10,000 people and under. What tricks of the trade have been used to maintain that kind of population stability? Abduction, infanticide, disease, immigration, herbal birth control?

"The Kalash Are an Ancient Genetic Isolate
PSMC analysis applied to the high-coverage Kalash, three African genomes (YRI, LWK, and MKK), and six non-African genomes showed that the Kalash, like other non-Africans, experienced a severe bottleneck 50,000–70,000 years ago. The Kalash recovered slightly after the bottleneck but never achieved an effective population size above 20,000, as observed in the GIH (the other South Asian genome) and other non-African genomes, except the MXL (Figure 2A). The Kalash have maintained a low effective size below 10,000 for more than 20,000 years before the present. This pattern of unusually small effective population size in the Kalash is also supported by the estimate from the decay of LD, which was significantly lower (p = < 2 × 10−14) than that of neighboring populations from Pakistan (Figure 2B), although the estimated absolute sizes differed between the two approaches."
Wow, didn't notice that; I guess this means that if the Kalash are a living fossil of the Indoeuropean lost civilisation (the way I see it, at least), then this catastrophe in the area happened more than 20000y ago, probably even 50-70k.
Now, about the stability afterwards, I don't think that extreme conditions like abduction, infanticide and the rest are required. I guess that number was the equilibrium they reached given the topography and the resources of the area, child mortality, limited interactions with other tribes, culture, etc
Any biologist in here is welcome to help...
 
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