1878 Panorama of San Francisco from California Street Hill

1878 San Francisco: is this a 30 y.o. city?

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jd755

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I did say "I worked with" back then I was a employed as a plumber in t'shipyard. The problem with estimating the numbers of bricks is where did they come from as the origin dictates the size. In the United Kingdom at the time for example they were huge compared to the modern brick

What upset the apple cart was a brick tax imposed by the government in 1784. The tax was paid per brick, so brick makers responded by making much larger bricks, which meant fewer were needed for a given size wall.
The government later set an upper limit of 150 cubic inches (10"x5"x3") for a 'brick, which was still much larger than bricks had been before the tax.

The tax was repealed in 1850, but by this time, many brick makers, especially in the Midlands and North, had moved from hand-made to machine-made bricks. Having invested heavily in machinery it wasn't easy for them to revert to the smaller sizes, which meant that big bricks persisted for a long time afterwards.

Not sure when the San Francisco brick factory got going and no clue what size bricks it made, well not yet anyway.
But here is some information on the reason to go from wood to brick very quickly.
From here Early History of the San Francisco Fire Department

Six fires in the first two or three years of her history caused the people to make extraordinary efforts to protect themselves against their recurrence.

New and better buildings; more precautions taken concerning the use of fire; the widening of streets; the purchase of fire apparatus, and finally the impressment of all citizen to fight a blaze and the organization of fire companies were among the earlier steps taken. Later on cisterns were built at strategical points.


The first fire of any importance occurred in January, 1849, when the Shades Hotel was destroyed. In June following the ship “Philadelphia” was burned as it was preparing to sail for the Sandwich Islands. The inflammable material of which the town was built and winds made many thoughtful people realize that if a fire ever got started nothing could stop it.

Scarcely were the ashes cold when preparations were made to erect new buildings on the old sites, and within a few weeks the place was covered as densely as before with houses of every kind.”


One month later, on June 14, the third great fire started. It broke out at 8 o’clock in the morning for a defective chimney in a bakery. The wind was blowing and in a few hours the blocks between Clay, California and Kearny streets to the water were one more in flames.


Experience had taught the people that although that the cost of fireproof brick structures was much greater than the cost of the old wooden ones, yet in the end they were cheaper and better, The style of architecture began to change for the better.

The fourth great fire broke out about 4 o’clock in morning of September 17, 1850.
On October 31 of the same year the City Hospital was destroyed. It was supposed to have been the work of in incendiary.
On the evening of December 14, 1850
, just a year from the first great fire, the fifth great fire, not considering one or two smaller ones, started.

The fire burned for the period of ten hours.
Between 1500 and 2000 houses had been destroyed. Eighteen blocks in the main business district had been destroyed.

Only five of the brick buildings on Montgomery street escaped. The burned district extended about three-fourths of a mile from north to south and a third of a mile from east to west.

On June 22, 1851,
hardly six months after the previous one, another fire started. Again incendiaries were believed to be the cause. It began about 11 o’clock in the morning and the wind drove the flames in every direction.

The Jenny Lind Theatre, the property of Thomas Maguire, one of the most valuable buildings, was destroyed,
which was the sixth time the owner had suffered by fire and lost everything.

They began to build houses now of walls two and three feet in thickness of solid brick to try and make them fireproof.


Terrible Experiences, Mother of Department

A REALISTIC description of the great fire of May 4, 1851, is contained in Frank Marryat’s “Mountain and Molehills.” And because of its effect on people, the dangers they encountered and how it had its influence in efforts to make the department ever more efficient, it is quoted in full:

Go to the site to read it.http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist1/fire.html

For visual evidence of large numbers of horses in the city checkout the hay ships here Work on Land & Water, 1880-1920 - FoundSF
They even had their own wharf.
Also whilst there clock the amount of timber being unloaded.
 

jd755

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From here San Francisco Chinatown History: the good, the bad, and the grim.

San Francisco Begins in Chinatown

The first private residence in San Francisco (then called Yerba Buena) was an adobe house, built around 1822 by an English sailor in Portsmouth Square, in the heart of what is now Chinatown.

In 1846, Captain John Montgomery sailed over from Sausalito with 70 soldiers and raised the American flag in Portsmouth Square, claiming San Francisco for the United States. The handful of houses built around the square was the beginning of San Francisco.

The first Chinese arrived in San Francisco in 1848: a man and two women. And only two years later, 20,000 Chinese arrived in "Gold Mountain".

When word of the gold discovery reached China, many men left their homes and took ship for California.
San Francisco was the port of entry, and the place where miners got provisions before heading inland to the gold fields.

The Tin How Temple (or Tien Hou) in Waverly Place is the oldest Chinese temple in the United States.
The temple was created in 1852
; the original building was destroyed in the 1906 earthquake and rebuilt in 1911.
There is a large Buddhist monastery on Sacramento and Grant, the Red Mountain Monastery.

Christian churches were also built early on here. The First Chinese Baptist Church, also in Waverly Place, was first built there in 1888, and rebuilt after the earthquake.


Old St. Mary's Cathedral at Grant and Pacific Avenues was built in 1854 from bricks shipped around the tip of South America, and was the only building in Chinatown to survive the fire that followed the 1906 earthquake.

Chinatown became a city within a city; associations (tongs) were created by the residents and these organizations handled most of the affairs of the inhabitants: legal matters, criminal enforcement, banking, aid to newcomers, and more.

The Chinese Six Companies, were the main organizations which provided order and assistance to the San Francisco Chinese in Chinatown. They were based on family names or places of origin in China, and generally run by well-to-do merchants.

There were also a number of criminal organizations, basically gangs, also called tongs, that exercised power over the Chinese community through fear and intimidation.

The Battle of Waverly Place. One of the most notorious gang fights occurred in 1879, when 50 men from two tongs fought in the small alley of Waverly Place over ownership rights to a Chinese slave girl, leaving four men dead.

Chinatown in the 1850's until 1900 and beyond was a rough place, with thousands of poor immigrants from southern China packed into miserable, unsanitary tenements.

Ross Alley was known as the Street of the Gamblers. These establishments had reinforced doors, often a series of them, to slow down the police, giving them time to hide the evidence. Also, there were tunnels under Chinatown connecting the buildings which were used to foil police raids (the tunnels vanished with the buildings in the great fire in 1906).

Because of the Gold Rush, most of the immigrants during this period were men, and this contributed to the demand for prostitutes;
in 1850, only 8% of the San Francisco residents were female.

The criminal tongs imported young girls from China and sold them to brothel owners in slave auctions held in St. Louis Alley; most of these girls were between 10 and 16 years old, and they had a life expectancy of about five years.

The selling of slave girls was very profitable for the tongs; the average price for a girl at the slave auctions was $850, going as high as $2,000, but they were purchased in China for $90 to $300.


Finally for now here's a couple of pictures.


And what a difference a bit of colour makes, and this from a Russian ironically!


That Emperor Norton chap is on here and more cracking images .
San Francisco Images

He has a look of Brigham Young about him.

WHEREAS, we issued our decree ordering the citizens of San Francisco and Oakland to appropriate funds for the survey of a suspension bridge from Oakland Point via Goat Island; also for a tunnel; and to ascertain which is the best project; and whereas the said citizens have hitherto neglected to notice our said decree; and whereas we are determined our authority shall be fully respected; now, therefore, we do hereby command the arrest by the army of both the Boards of City Fathers if they persist in neglecting our decrees. Given under our royal hand and seal at San Francisco, this 17th day of September, 1872


Background The Emperor was England born and journeyed to California during the Gold Rush in 1849. Arriving via South Africa he had initial windfalls from real estate and various ventures until he became penniless via a poorly conceived plan to order the rice market. Ultimately, his palace was less than palatial as he reigned from a rooming house at 624 Commercial Street was less than salubrious. Nonetheless, was given a pass wherever he went, given the best seat in the best restaurants of the day with never a bill to be presented. A general at the Presidio provided his uniform, which as it eventually deteriorated, the Board of Supervisers pitched in a provided another.

At the time, the Emperor was not alone with respect to the eccentrics of the day. One street character had dubbed himself George Washington II, adorned in Revolutionary War garb, there was the Money King who celebrated his position as a skin flint, and even a bizarre man who simply went by the title of the Great Unknown. Were they smoking something back then?
Who know, but the Emperor seems the one who has staid the test of time and with us to this day.

The water pressure for the water mains seems to have come from a reservoir on Russian hill.

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Telegraph Hill, from the Reservoir on Russian Hill.​

From here Forsaken Russian Hill reservoir to become 4.5-acre park
Built in 1859, the reservoir was abandoned back in 1941.
 
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datagram1

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San Francisco was called Yerba Buena before the gold rush around 1846-47. Hold the thought that the bad ol' days were filthy and you could age a building with soot in a short time. Gold brings builders who were not accounted for as permenant residents so the temporary population was much higher than quoted figures. The pictures I found show the harbour was busy and there were a surprising amount of people in cities near enough to come and work there when needed. There were a lot of tents about at the time for the temporary people.

I found some nice pictures here: San Francisco History and Local Newspapers 1851 Nevada Journal / 1890 San Francisco Morning Call. You can dig around and get a pretty good idea of whats going on around that time.

If civilisation was reset today, future survivors would be digging up old electric lightbulbs, shavers, dildos and TV's out of the ruins (along with a million other gadgets). So tell me - If people used to use atmospheric or Tesla style wireless electricity where are the artifacts that use it? Apart from some nobbly bits, decorations and lightening rods, I have never seen any artifact that could be remotely electric. I have never seen the wires leading from the atmospheric electric collectors and I have never seen a re-creation of one working or the power station supplying it.

From my own opinion, the evidence I have uncovered indicates San Francisco wasn't 'discovered' it was built. There is no evidence of atmospheric energy collectors. You can jack up the exposure of a camera to lose the smoke and
people from a photo. There are newspapers everywhere from the global mud flood time period around 1790 - 1830 specifically 1812 or 1815 and no mention of a worldwide catastrophic mud flood. I can explain mud flood pictures and weird architecture but not in this post so for me mud flood is still a lemon.

London 2018 Midday (Long Exposure - look at the bridge, no people)

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Architecture photography always uses the longest exposure possible as people ruin the picture. See my own shot of Big Ben in London at midday (above). I managed to erase the people with a filter + long exposure. So don't get over exited when you see no people in old photos. Architecture photographers clean the scene as much as possible in the shot and post processing.

.. and 1840's-60's San Francisco photobomb...

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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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There we go with exposure thing again. We either have people due to a long exposure, or we do not. We can't have 99.5% invisible due to exposure, and the remaining 0.5% visible.

As far as the artifact portion goes, we probably do not have organizations like Smithsonian and UNESCO for nothing. Artifacts do exist. Whether masses choose to recognize them as such, is a separate issue.

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Kulibin's egg-shaped clock presented to Catherine II in 1769
James Cox's peacock clock presented to Catherine II in 1781
60,000 pieces, 240 years old. Jaquet-Droz's dolls still write, draw, and play music

Not sure we can assume that we should be looking for the exact same things we have today in the past. Our's is the age of electronics. Their's could have been the age of mechanics and steam. Did they have iPhones back then? Most likely they did not. Yet, without some prior knowledge, a smart phone is nothing but a piece of plastic, and glass.

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@datagram1, I don't think this website is for you. Restating the official position should be done somewhere else. Wikipedia has it all covered already, and there is no reason to repeat it on this forum.
 

datagram1

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There we go with exposure thing again. We either have people due to a long exposure, or we do not. We can't have 99.5% invisible due to exposure, and the remaining 0.5% visible.

As far as the artifact portion goes, we probably do not have organizations like Smithsonian and UNESCO for nothing. Artifacts do exist. Whether masses choose to recognize them as such, is a separate issue.

Kulibin's egg-shaped clock presented to Catherine II in 1769
James Cox's peacock clock presented to Catherine II in 1781
60,000 pieces, 240 years old. Jaquet-Droz's dolls still write, draw, and play music

Not sure we can assume that we should be looking for the exact same things we have today in the past. Our's is the age of electronics. Their's could have been the age of mechanics and steam. Did they have iPhones back then? Most likely they did not. Yet, without some prior knowledge, a smart phone is nothing but a piece of plastic, and glass.

@datagram1, I don't think this website is for you. Restating the official position should be done somewhere else. Wikipedia has it all covered already, and there is no reason to repeat it on this forum.
Exposure is a factor, I did also post pictures with a lot of people in them from the time period (almy one). You don't know the exposure setting of a picture which 'may' explain the lack of people. If we could see any shadows we could tell what time of day the pictures were taken which helps work out who would be on the street. If your pictures were during the day on a short exposure then they would indeed be odd considering the local population.

Since we have pictures with many people & boats in them then it is fair to assume there were people around and the city was not deserted.

I agree with you on the Smithsonian (and other similar institutions) they do have a nasty habit of vanishing the kind of artifacts we are talking about. Luckily for us some artifacts do slip past them. Maybe there are wireless electric fireplaces sitting in a smithsonian warehouse somewhere. Personally, I have not seen any wireless electric gadgets from this time period, I assume electric cooking, lighting and heating items would be the ones to look for.

As it stands today, there just aren't any we can reference to back up our assumptions. I will happily change my opinion when I have enough material to say something is real, I am just not there yet with this one.

The long arcing storyline is that we were more advanced at 'some' things in the past; wireless electricity and building are a couple of good ones to start with. Without any evidence to change my mind I assume these skills died off much further back in history. There is the exception of a group of people running free energy systems at least for the last 80 years but I think it was an independent discovery.

There are some great out of place artifacts that can't be explained except if you go with the storyline that we have been around longer than historians will admit, we used to have a more stable society and we have forgotton our history.

I'm not sure that I am re-stating an official position as per mossad-pedia, since most of what I have written is the opposite of the official narrative. What you said is still interesting and out of the ordinary evidence, however I remain unconvinced that San Francisco was a reset city that was discovered and not built.

It would be a little boring if we all agreed with you on everything don't you think?
 

Timeshifter

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Architecture photography always uses the longest exposure possible as people ruin the picture. See my own shot of Big Ben in London at midday (above). I managed to erase the people with a filter + long exposure. So don't get over exited when you see no people in old photos. Architecture photographers clean the scene as much as possible in the shot and post processing.
Another 'photographer' with generalized statement & no real idea how to read a picture. As nice as your image is, its about as relevent an example to the OP photo as a jam sponge.

If you take the time to study the image in the OP, you will realise there are people, horses and other things visible. No long exposure used to clense the image.

There is a lack of presence for a bussling city in the OP pic, not a clensed photo, if it were so it failed.
 

jd755

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To bring this back to the subject, the water reservoir was constructed in 1859 so presumably the water mains appeared either just before or just after the reservoir was filled.
History | Francisco Park, San Francisco CA
"Water from Mountain Lake was flumed to the Russian Hill Reservoir to serve the exploding population located in the Northeast corridor of the City, near the primary point of entry, the Port of San Francisco,"
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More info here Francisco Reservoir - FoundSF
 

datagram1

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Another 'photographer' with generalized statement & no real idea how to read a picture. As nice as your image is, its about as relevent an example to the OP photo as a jam sponge.

If you take the time to study the image in the OP, you will realise there are people, horses and other things visible. No long exposure used to clense the image.

There is a lack of presence for a bussling city in the OP pic, not a clensed photo, if it were so it failed.
..In case I missed something could you re-post the picture that you are refering to. Thanks.
 
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KorbenDallas

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Would be nice to get census data on 1880 SF. Wondering how many women and children were within this 233k of people.
 
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KorbenDallas

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Here is some gender info on 1870 SF.
1870 San Francisco
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Here is a detailed 1870 census. Judging by the names, the male to female ratio was not far from 50/50.

With the monster of a city being allegedly built at record breaking pace, who was participating in the Gold Rush, if every single male did nothing but construction?

For comparison, The Isaac's Cathedral in Saint Petersburg, Russia (one building only) was built by approximately 125,733 people, and it took them 40 years to build it: 1818-1858.
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In turn this Cathedral's story is also a bunch of lies, but I just wanted to show the inconsistencies we are dealing with, for Seattle in 1889-1890 managed to build 5,625 buildings in 18 months with only 43,467 people (both males and females).
 

datagram1

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That would be this photo panorama and the close up crop variants of in the op :)

View attachment 18826
Thanks, first here is what I found out:

Eadweard Muybridge took the 1st photo at 11am on Saturday 15th June 1878
I found the 'lost' 1877 version here

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Wikipedia says:
Muybridge worked with a mammoth camera using 18 x 22 inch plates. Muybridge started at about 11am and, probably with the help of an assistant, made each section within a matter of 15 minutes. The seventh panel from the left was taken last; it is a second shot of a section that was not successful on the first try. He used a 40 inch near telephoto lens, which determined the number of 20 inch wide glass negatives needed to make the complete circle. He had chosen the day for the execution of the panorama carefully; the shadows are sharp and the atmosphere clear. Published as an album and comprising thirteen mounted albumen prints, the resulting panorama exceeded seventeen feet in length when fully extended. He printed nine copies, but never advertised them.

Another find related to that photo:
In 1878 Muybridge took a series of photos of the growing city from the Mark Hopkins mansion on Nob Hill, resulting in a clear and detailed image over 17 feet long. Today sections of this photo are on display at the Wells Fargo Museum, 420 Montgomery St. Typically, Muybridge added clouds to his photos (early photoshopping) for atmospheric effects.

Quote "he used outdoor collodion wet-plate photography. This was the most progressive technique available, invented in 1851. Before taking shots, Muybridge's dark-tent needed to be pitched and his camera equipment and chemicals unpacked and prepared. Then wet plates were sensitised in the tent whilst exposures were made outside; to be developed immediately afterwards."

Quote "The collodion process, mostly synonymous with the "collodion wet plate process", requires the photographic material to be coated, sensitized, exposed and developed within the span of about fifteen minutes, necessitating a portable darkroom for use in the field."

Quote Source "This process has an effective ISO/ASA of less than 1, so it requires long exposures, typically of between four and 11 seconds."

I took a look at your picture. I see here is a tree blowing in the wind here, the top is blurred as the exposure is probably close to 10 seconds.

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Horse and driver becoming see through is a long exposure pointer.
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So for this photo to work at all with this type of photography, the exposure time is very long by our modern standards and absolutely has to be between 4 seconds and 11 seconds. My personal guess is 10 seconds as it was a very early camera and thats what it looks like to me for the clips I included, it probably varied between shots slightly. Our photographer has also probably doctored the clouds as he was known to do in his other photos.

The net effect of this is to make fast moving objects dissapear from the shot. I can't comment on foot traffic in San Francisco on Saturday the 15th June 1878, but if you were constantly moving on a horse or in a buggy over a 10 second exposure you would not be in this photo.

I agree there are people and horses in the pictures, not many of them are clear. We will never know how many (if any) people were moving in this shot that the photographic process made vanish.

We are left with an indeterminate conclusion, you can't use this photo as absolute proof there were only a few people there that day and I can't argue otherwise.

I did find some earlier photos with a lot of people in them, I can't explain their whereabouts on Saturday 15th June 1878 but they were probably somewhere being unhappy about the cheap chinese labour coming into town.

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I also found: 10,000 Early Photos of San Francisco

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1870's
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Red Bird

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Look what we have here in our incestuous national history. I was looking at something else and saw this connection: Bush family and San Francisco during our time period, plus a noted historical personage of photography, AND one of those fabulous churches that then burnt after the earthquake. All noted by Mark Twain ‘ It’s said’.

Career. James Smith Bush
(Grandfather of Prescott Bush, etc.)


In 1865–66, having been given a health sabbatical by his church, he traveled to San Francisco via the Straits of Magellan on the ironclad monitor USS Monadnock with Commodore John Rodgers (a parishioner of his), with international goodwill stops along the way. Officially, he was designated Commodore's Secretary, but was considered "acting chaplain", giving services on board and even conducting a shipboard wedding for a German American they encountered in Montevideo, an incident Bush recounted in dispatches he wrote for The Overland Monthly. Coincidentally, the fleet observed the punitive shelling of a defenseless Valparaíso, Chile by the Spanish Navy during the Chincha Islands War, after mediation efforts by Rodgers failed.

In 1867–1872, Bush was called to Grace Church (later Cathedral) in San Francisco, but troubled by family obligations, only stayed five years. His short stay along with that of photographic roll film inventor Hannibal Goodwin was to be satirized by Mark Twain in his weekly column in The Californian.

Following is a link to The California articles he wrote- the footnote was gone. However that little bit of info was everywhere. You can read about Hannibal at the link.
Mark Twain in The Californian
Was this the article? See the last paragraph- troubled by family obligations?
Twain, Mark - The Story of the Bad Boy Who Didn't Come to Grief

History - Grace Cathedral
Looks familiar but didn’t take the time to find it in the old pics.

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Chinatown Images - OpenSF History Images - Western Neighborhoods Project - San Francisco History

I don’t think this was touched on
New Map Reveals Ships Buried Below San Francisco
They (mostly gold miners) just left them and people filled in over them supposedly.

This guy mentioned them in a video- hadn’t seen his before.

 
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fabiorem

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That cathedral seems odd. It looks like a combination of the european gothic style with a orthodox eastern style. Maybe this is the true "tartarian" style which gives 18-19th century architecture this unique "neo-classical" look.
 

BrokenAgate

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I think they just give all these different names to architecture to hide the fact that it's all from the same source. Gothic, neo-Gothic, neo-Classical, Greco-Roman, Renaissance, Colonial, Revivalist, etc., it's all basically the same, with a few minor aesthetic differences based on regional preferences. Gothic tends to have more pointy bits and gargoyles, for example. Some buildings were smaller, some larger, some very ornate, some fairly simple. All listed as separate types of styles appearing at different times, of course, in the school textbooks. They have it all neatly locked down into well-delineated time periods, and this information is given with such great confidence that students are disinclined to question it.

The Muybridge pictures are amazing! California Hill was a popular shooting location, apparently.

Man, that article on the sunken ships under SF makes NO damn sense. That's a huge chunk of real estate! Where did all the land come from? It says that men would sometimes deliberately sink their ships and then claim the land under it. Then people began dumping debris and sand (what sand? From where?) into the cove until the land built up. How long would that take? And how stable would the land actually be? I am reminded of The World islands off the coast of Dubai. These are a collection of man-made islands in the shape of the world, intended to be the future homes of all sorts of businesses and vacation getaway spots. Unfortunately, the sand keeps slipping away into the ocean. Dubai's wildly ambitious 'The World' islands could finally be coming to life What did they do in the 1800s to the San Francisco shoreline that the developers in Dubai are not doing now, to keep the sand and debris from being washed away? I think what we really have here is a huge mud flood that deposited loads of mud and/or sand all over this region, quickly burying ships, harbors, and piers, and a phony story to explain it all away.
 

jd755

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Where did all the land come from?
The hills of sand mud and rock around the bay when new roads were cut, its in the posts above or maybe on the other San Francisco thread along with pictures. It was moved to the shallows by train and dumped to create dry land where once was sea.
The story about the ships does seem incredulous but they turn up fairly often when new foundations are being put in for 'bigger and better' buildings on the 'filled in land'

Here on this island half of a local dock full of water was filled in by pumping saturated sand, in suspension with seawater, from the seabed sandbanks a few miles distant in a lengthy pumping operation and then they went and built a whacking great shipbuilding hall on it. That was in the eighties, 1980's. As far as I know there haven't been any problems with it.

It seems too incredible to us 'modern humans' that back in the late 1800's the people were sufficiently skilled and 'machined up' to carry out many of the things they did but they were. Just look at any of the Expostions Halls of Machines to see in many ways they were streets ahead of where we are in these days of 'electronic hi tech'.

With you on the ongoing deliberate multi layer gothic obfuscation of reality.
 

BrokenAgate

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Well, if that's how it was done, then I'm pretty impressed. The island-makers in Dubai could take a few lessons from them. (Of course, adding to an already existing coastline is probably different than building entire islands out in the ocean, where the currents are stronger and can carry away your work more easily.) Still, there must be photos or drawings somewhere of all this extensive labor. I know cameras weren't widely available, so people didn't take pictures of everything in their environment like we do now, but there must be newspaper articles describing the works being done. Otherwise, we wouldn't know that it was done this way. It looks like articles do exist at Newspapers.com, but I don't have a subscription to check them out. :(

As for the Expositions, I'm not convinced that anyone in the 1800s had the skills to make those machines. Someone found the machines and simply displayed them, and then they were never seen again. If it really was a matter of introducing new tech, then those machines would have been put to use right away, and we'd be decades ahead of where we are now.
 

JohnnyCat

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Hi all, first post..
As I worked on tugboats in dredging and marine construction for 13 years, maybe I can explain a bit. Typically, when you’re filling in land a rock dike is built around the perimeter once a certain depth(or lack thereof) is reached to contain the dirt being used. Filling doesnt stop at the final level of land as a surcharge is put on top and left for X Amount of time to compact and weigh the new land down. Depends on the location, currents, etc and the type of material used. (Occasionally the wrong material can be used and this happened on a major project in LA harbor my dad was on. Concrete piles had to be put in every few feet or so to help keep it from sinking.) also, Many harbors and beaches have to undergo routine maintainence dredging to keep from eroding or filling back in, sometimes yearly. not sure of the specifics of Dubai but it is in open water, with a breakwall in front of it which still won’t stop currents or anything. It also doesnt appear that any of the islands have a dike built around them but pictures aren’t the best and maybe it isn’t necessary for that enviroronment.

As for the landfill on top of the abandoned ships in SF, I was able to find that the work was performed by a Hewes Steam Paddy Works which started out with shovel, wheelbarrow and a Chinese laborer to knock down the hilltops and later giant steam shovels or “paddies” in reference to the claim it did the work of 20 irishmen. They also brought in the first steam locomotive on the pacific coast to haul the cars of dirt to fill on top of the sunken ships.

06786DD6-CC1D-409E-BBD3-DA69FB72D133.jpeg40C7EF86-5728-4FC6-8EE9-16237C74B5E0.jpeg

Also, there is mention of a problem with sinking in other fill areas in the bay


Another interesting fact i can add is that dredging Comes from Ancient Egyptians, for use in building canals and maintaining them. Hope that adds some to that aspect of the discussion.
 

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