16th century rockets: manned, multistaged and nozzled?

KorbenDallas

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I don't know much about the 16th century rockets, but some things appear to be so out of place, that acceptance of their existence is very strange. The origins of the knowledge are not being questioned. Why?

According to our traditional science, even Siemienowicz's 1650 book should not exist. Yet there is a different publication predating Artis Magnae Artilleriae by approximately 75-100 years. We are talking about multistage rockets of the 16th, and 17th centuries. And I don't even want to speculate about the "manned" part. While this is not a secret, and widely available on the internet, it appears that 1500s is a bit too early.

Kazimierz Siemienowicz
(born c. 1600 – c. 1651)
Kazimierz Siemienowicz, was a Polish–Lithuanian general of artillery, gunsmith, military engineer, and pioneer of rocketry. After contributing his expertise to several battles, Siemienowicz published Artis Magnae Artilleriae in 1650. This treatise, which discussed rocketry and pyrotechnics, remained a standard work in those fields for two centuries. Based on the date of this book, I think Mr. Siemienowicz had to be born way prior to 1651.

Kazimier_Siemianovič._Казімер_Семяновіч.jpg
Well, below are some pictures from this book, and while the publication clearly exists, I believe there are some reasons to search for the true origins of its contents.

17_century_rockets.png
Casimir_Siemienowicz_1.pngCasimir_Siemienowicz_2.pngCasimir_Siemienowicz_3.png
The below image is also present on the Wikipedia page (and many other places) with the following description, "Siemenowicz multi-stage rocket, from his Artis Magnae Artilleriae pars prima". I was unable to find it in the book. May be the image was created based on a description found in his book.

Siemenowicz_rocket.png

Well, Mr. Siemienowicz was never the main object of this article. It is the gentleman below.

Conrad Haas
(1509–1576)


Conrad-Haas_sibiu_manuscript_6.jpg

"Conrad Haas was an Austrian or Transylvanian Saxon military engineer for the Kingdom of Hungary and Principality of Transilvania. He is a pioneer of rocket propulsion. His designs include a three-stage rocket and a manned rocket. He wrote a German-language treatise on rocket technology, involving the combination of fireworks and weapons technologies. This 450 page manuscript was discovered in 1961, in the Sibiu public records (Sibiu public records Varia II 374). His work also dealt with the theory of motion of multi-stage rockets, different fuel mixtures using liquid fuel, and introduced delta-shape fins and bell-shaped nozzles."- Wikipedia

Conrad-Haas_sibiu_manuscript_5.jpg
Conrad-Haas_sibiu_manuscript_0.jpgConrad-Haas_sibiu_manuscript_0_1.jpgConrad-Haas_sibiu_manuscript_3.jpegConrad-Haas_sibiu_manuscript_2.jpg
Sources:
German link for @Hardy: Die Himmelstürmer von Hermannstadt
Rocket Launch Into Space At Sibiu, Romania Took Place In 1555 – Sibiu Manuscript
Conrad Haas’ Flying Javelin: Yes, It Is 16th Century Rocket Science
The item can be found in these references:
-Doru Todericiu: Preistoria Rachetei Moderne. Manuscrisul de la Sibiu 1529 – 1569, Editura Academiei RSR, Bucuresti, 1969
-Erstlich schöne Racketten mancherley Art (article by Richard Friebe)


* * * * *

Conrad-Haas-Flying-Javelin.jpg
I do not know how authentic this Sibiu Manuscript is. I was not able to find any PDF file to download. Here is the info, and you be the judge. Contents of the manuscript definitely do not belong to the time when it was put together. Well, at least, according to the common concept of the 16th century technical capabilities.

But then comes the Bellifortis, and Alexander the Great holding whatever that is...

Alexander_Great_Bellifortis_c_1405.jpg
 
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humanoidlord

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Lol. How did they come up with an idea which requires a research institution to develop?
thats the problem

hey korben i just noticed that you forgot to mention something very important at the OP:
between conrad and kazimierz research (1500's to 1600's) and the modern rocketry age (1922) there was an bizzare period where everyone thought that the best way to go to space would be either by balloon (yes i know weird) or via an YYYUUUUGE cannon, this brings the question: why did everyone forget about conrad's and his partner's work and instead arrive at bizzare and insane ways to arrive at space?
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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Well, honestly my thought train did not travel that far, lol. Just trying to comprehend why a person riding a horse, and using a wooden shovel would even entertain an idea of such a device. Unless of course he was sitting there reading an older book and looking at some other drawing made by somebody else, and God knows when. IMHO.
 

humanoidlord

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I do not know how authentic this Sibiu Manuscript is
very authentic, there is an museum about him in sibil

Well, honestly my thought train did not travel that far, lol. Just trying to comprehend why a person riding a horse, and using a wooden shovel would even entertain an idea of such a device. Unless of course he was sitting there reading an older book and looking at some other drawing made by somebody else, and God knows when. IMHO.
bizzare is an understatament, at that time we dint have planes, cars and not even toilet paper (!), yet someone already wanted to explore space!
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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Here is another etching I would have a couple questions in reference to. I am not even talking about this rocket looking thing going straight up.

- What are those light bulbs on the right?
- Wings?

A 17th century engraving of Lagari
Hasan Çelebi launching into the sky.


17th century engraving of Lagari Hasa.png

Here is the description provided, "Perhaps inspired by the achievement of Hezarafen Ahmed Çelebi, his brother, Laragi Hassan Çelebi sought to also defy gravity and reach the skies. In 1633 he built a rocket made for a human passenger. The rocket was powered by over 300 pounds of gunpowder. According to Evliya Çelebi, to celebrate the birth of Sultan Murad’s daughter, Laragi Çelebi tested his rocket at the shore of the Bosphorus, near the sultan’s residence, Topkapi Palace.
After numerous assistants lit the fuses for his one of a kind rocket, Lagari soared up about 300 meters into the air. When his rocket ran out of fuel, he opened a pair of wings he fashioned for himself, and gently managed to glide down to the Bosporus, and then swim to the shore. Like his brother, he was rewarded for his achievement with a pouch of gold, and was also made a cavalry officer in the Sipahi corps of the Ottoman Empire. He likely died soon afterwards in battle in the Crimea."


They really wanted to fly for some reason....
 

humanoidlord

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Here is another etching I would have a couple questions in reference to. I am not even talking about this rocket looking thing going straight up.

- What are those light bulbs on the right?
- Wings?

A 17th century engraving of Lagari
Hasan Çelebi launching into the sky.


View attachment 2285

Here is the description provided, "Perhaps inspired by the achievement of Hezarafen Ahmed Çelebi, his brother, Laragi Hassan Çelebi sought to also defy gravity and reach the skies. In 1633 he built a rocket made for a human passenger. The rocket was powered by over 300 pounds of gunpowder. According to Evliya Çelebi, to celebrate the birth of Sultan Murad’s daughter, Laragi Çelebi tested his rocket at the shore of the Bosphorus, near the sultan’s residence, Topkapi Palace.
After numerous assistants lit the fuses for his one of a kind rocket, Lagari soared up about 300 meters into the air. When his rocket ran out of fuel, he opened a pair of wings he fashioned for himself, and gently managed to glide down to the Bosporus, and then swim to the shore. Like his brother, he was rewarded for his achievement with a pouch of gold, and was also made a cavalry officer in the Sipahi corps of the Ottoman Empire. He likely died soon afterwards in battle in the Crimea."


They really wanted to fly for some reason....
i swear this freaking site....
once again i ask the same question: why they dint censor the engravings like everthing else?
i can see 3 anomalies in the engraving:
1: very modern and obviously eletrical lightbulbs
2: an very modern rocket with SRB's and an bubble shaped capsule
3: its overral an strangely photorealistic drawing
 
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