1492: Erdapfel Globe by Martin Behaim

KorbenDallas

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The Erdapfel is a terrestrial globe produced by Martin Behaim from 1490–1492. The Erdapfel is the oldest surviving terrestrial globe.

The Americas are not included, as Columbus returned to Spain no sooner than March 1493. The globe shows an enlarged Eurasian continent and an empty ocean between Europe and Asia.

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Here is a little problem I have with this globe.
  • From its creation until early in the 16th century, it stood in a reception room in the Nuremberg town hall. After that time, it was held by the Behaim family. In 1907, it was transferred to the Germanic Museum in Nuremberg.
KD: this globe, allegedly made in 1492 (conveniently leaving room for the Americas) resurfaces in 1907; 500 years after it’s creation.
  • Narrative can say now that in 15th century the shape of the Earth was already known.
My question is fairly simple - how do we know Erdapfel was not made in 1906?
 

BrokenAgate

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Is this globe made of wood or metal? Either way, it would be hard to keep that in the family for a couple of generations, let alone hundreds of years. People tend to throw things away that they don't need or want anymore.
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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I just find it highly suspicious when so many things conveniently pop up 100 years ago, but are claimed to be of enough age to form a historical perspective on certain things. That, in turn, leads to our historians being able to claim that age. But... is that age really there?
 

whitewave

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Plus, the Vikings and others knew America was there before Columbus did so why wouldn't it be shown on a map of that time?
 

NorthernLion

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My question is fairly simple - how do we know Erdapfel was not made in 1906?
Korben, once again your hunch is 100% correct.

Martin Behaim's 1492 'Erdapfel'

"In 1847 and 1908 two facsimile globes were made: the first for the Bibliotheque Nationale Paris, by E.F.Jomard, with the work being supervised by the famous engraver and artist A.Reindel. The second facsimile, of which several were made, as well as being published as gores, in a finely bound limited edition book, was undertaken by E.G.Ravenstein, a Fellow of the Royal Geographical Society, London....

In 1847, and I would deduce after Jomard had completed his facsimile, 'restorers' were let loose for the second time on the Behaim Globe. Their 'restoration' severely damaged it. Glockendon's artwork bled into the restorers varnish, sadly making many parts of the Globe illegible...

Jomard however had used as reference not only the original Globe but also Doppelmayr's 1770 'Globular Projection', Sebastian Müunster's 'Cosmographia' and a 'map on vellum' (said to be found in the Behaim Family Archives, being 'a fairly correct and neat copy of this globe upon two rolls of parchment'). "

So it looks like the date of original manufacture was 1847 by Jomard who spliced together several contemporary works to produce it. One copy went to Paris and another to Germany. The German copy was deliberately (?) damaged so as to make the place names illegible (wonder what part of the world they have "Jerusalem" in on that globe... heh).

They freely admit to multiple copies, heavy editing, and obfuscation through a "restorers error" but of course we should just move along, there is nothing to see here people.
 

Gerardgeert

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  • Narrative can say now that in 15th century the shape of the Earth was already known.
I thought you knew (Did the Greeks know the world was round?)

@NorthernLion, thanks for that brilliant link (my head is under presure)
THE GLOBE THE HISTORY OF THE GLOBE by E.G. Ravenstein.

Contemporary globes

MARTIN BEHAIM'S stay at Nuremberg in 1490-93 is memorable for the production of a globe with which his name is identified, and which has secured for him a place in the history of geography. Globes in his age, and even earlier, were by no means unknown. Giovanni Campano, a distinguished mathematician of Novara, who flourished in the time of Pope Urban IV (1261-64)
Brought me here (check this @KorbenDallas); Astrolabe

I wanted to include a screenshot, but it doesn’t fit 😬 (it all the same size right)
Well There is a picture of an iranian-globe from the year 1144 (with the erdapfel there was stated, that it is suppost to be the oldest suviving globe in the world)

So; i’m happy with my leed, i hope you’ll got something in return.....happy-hunting
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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I thought you knew
I'm not sure what you mean there buddy.

As far as I understand, we need to start taking a single historical item (i.e. this Erdapfel) and see where it was kept, what its history is, and when the item ended up where it is today.

We appear to have this history related disease called "dating". So-called professionals date certain things to either whatever they need to date them to, or with a total disregard for verifiable, and proven scientific facts. I.e: Pearl life span.
 

Gerardgeert

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Oeps i Made an mistake concerning the iranian-globe, i tryed to get the screenshot uploaded again, ......and noticed that it was an celestial globe........sorry

And about my question: ‘i thought you knew’
Because of your statement “Narrative can say now that in 15th century the shape of the Earth was already known”

“The shape of the earth was allready a globe, for atleast 2000years”
Stated by ptolemy and others, Copernicus just added a little, and Made it a heliocentric model (not my opinion :))

But to be honnest: i thought i had something to ad to this thread, but as it turns out......it was my illusion(probably i just want to see, something that isn’t there(yet)....😎👍🏼
 
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KorbenDallas

KorbenDallas

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We only learned of “Ptolemy and others” in the 15th century, therefore this 2,000 year old knowledge is highly questionsble.

I will keep on saying this:
  • Do not go with re-stating the school program.
  • Verify what the sources of the claims are
  • Find out the dates of the surviving sources.
  • And accept, that originals never survive, only copies do.
The above is just my opinion on the matter. To bring more clarity, this forum was created.

Here is our Ptolemy. Died in 15th century AD.
 

Gerardgeert

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I will keep on saying this:
  • Do not go with re-stating the school program.
  • Verify what the sources of the claims are
  • Find out the dates of the surviving sources.
  • And accept, that originals never survive, only copies do.
The above is just my opinion on the matter, and to bring more clarity, this forum was created.
I hear ya; but ain’t all sources questinable

It just seemed as if you thought that the erdapfel was the only so-called evidence to back-up the narrative(i just mis-understood what you were trying to say)

I like your thought on the space left open for the americas do, because i do know that we are fucked in there-story
But i also know that the tartaria-part is a blown-up distraction(my opinion), as many other theory’s
It is just a detail on overkill.....as ptolemy may be a detail

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But may aswell be a big ass fish(look at the way the manuscript is bent, is he showing that the book is empty)

Okey let’s get back on topic......

Did you know that “erdapfel” means earth-appel in german.....why the f*ck would they give it that name, when it looks more like an orange.....damn torusfield again aye
 
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