Tartarian Ruins of Mongolia and Karakorum

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It appears to be pretty evident that today's Mongolia has very little to do with the ancient Tartary. IMHO, the only common thing they share is the territory. Mongolia occupies a small portion of what was a global empire. Well, may be there was such an empire, for the narrative compliant history says no such thing. Officially, The area of what is now Mongolia has been ruled by various nomadic empires, including the Xiongnu, the Xianbei, the Rouran, the First Turkic Khaganate, and others. There is not a word about Tartary here.
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As far as independent researchers go, some believe that Tartary existed, and some do not. Collecting evidence is all we can do, it seems. I believe the below excerpt could be added to the collection of bits and pieces pointing towards the existence of Tartary.
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Notice that even in 1840s locals had no clue about the mentioned ruins. The above - "abandoned cities of Tartary" - information does not really jive with the nomadic life style historically attributed to this territory. I searched the Huc's Travels book for the word "ruins". Here is what we have to supplement the above cutout:
  • You often, in these parts of Tartary, meet with the remains of great towns, and the ruins of fortresses, very nearly resembling those of the middle ages in Europe, and, upon turning up the soil in these places, it is not unusual to find lances, arrows, portions of farming implements, and urns filled with Corean money.
  • On the third day we came, in the solitude, upon an imposing and majestic monument of antiquity,—a large city utterly abandoned. Its turreted ramparts, its watch towers, its four great gates, facing the four cardinal points, were all there perfect, in preservation, except that, besides being three-fourths buried in the soil, they were covered with a thick coating of turf. Arrived opposite the southern gate, we directed Samdadchiemba to proceed quietly with the animals, while we paid a visit to the Old Town, as the Tartars designate it. Our impression, as we entered the vast enclosure, was one of mingled awe and sadness. There were no ruins of any sort to be seen, but only the outline of a large and fine town, becoming absorbed below by gradual accumulations of wind-borne soil, and above by a winding-sheet of turf. The arrangement of the streets and the position of the principal edifices, were indicated by the inequalities of ground. The only living things we found here were a young Mongol shepherd, silently smoking his pipe, and the flock of goats he tended. We questioned the former as to when the city was built, by whom, when abandoned, and why? We might as well have interrogated his goats; he knew no more than that the place was called the Old Town.
  • Such remains of ancient cities are of no unfrequent occurrence in the deserts of Mongolia; but everything connected with their origin and history is buried in darkness. Oh, with what sadness does such a spectacle fill the soul! The ruins of Greece, the superb remains of Egypt, - all these, it is true, tell of death; all belong to the past; yet when you gaze upon them, you know what they are; you can retrace, in memory, the revolutions which have occasioned the ruins and the decay of the country around them. Descend into the tomb, wherein was buried alive the city of Herculaneum, - you find there, it is true, a gigantic skeleton, but you have within you historical associations wherewith to galvanize it. But of these old abandoned cities of Tartary, not a tradition remains; they are tombs without an epitaph, amid solitude and silence, uninterrupted except when the wandering Tartars halt, for a while, within the ruined enclosures, because there the pastures are richer and more abundant.
Here is what we can find in this 1802 publication titled: Edinburgh Magazine: Or Literary Miscellany - V. 20
  • When exactly did nomadic tribes start building cities?
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Even today, in the 21st century, 30% of the population is nomadic or semi-nomadic.
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What is Mongolia today? I'm pretty sure it's a lot of things but for the purposes of this article the below paragraph summarizes the gist.
  • At 1,564,116 square kilometres (603,909 sq mi), Mongolia is the 18th-largest and the most sparsely populated sovereign state in the world, with a population of over 3.3 million people. It is also the world's second-largest landlocked country, behind Kazakhstan, and the largest landlocked country that does not border a closed sea. The country contains very little arable land, as much of its area is covered by grassy steppe, with mountains to the north and west and the Gobi Desert to the south. Ulaanbaatar, the capital and largest city, is home to about 45% of the country's population.
  • Summary: 18th largest by size and 136th largest by population with almost half of the country residing in the capital city of Ulaanbaatar. It has very little arable land.
Why would Mongolia have such low population numbers? Could these numbers indicate that this territory experienced something similar to what Africa went through?
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The same area as depicted on the Fra Mauro's map dated with 1450 looks something like this. It's hard to figure out the exact location of the contemporary Mongolia on this map, but I think it was in the vicinity of Serica. May be slightly north of it.

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The same area portrayed on the 1587 Urbano Monte's map shows the following.

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There are tons of different older maps of Asia showing cities and towns in the area. Unfortunately, their existence on the maps does not explain when and who built them. Relying on the conventional historians is not an option, as far as "who" and "when" goes.

Existing Ruins
It's been close to 175 years since Évariste Régis Huc traveled to the area formerly occupied by Tartary. Who knows if the ruins he was talking about are still around today.
Looking for the Mongolian ruins we, for the most part, run into the so-called Karakorum ruins. Whether these really belong to the former "base camp" of Genghis Khan is unknown. in my opinion. There is plenty of evidence that city names were getting switched around left and right. Our science corp says that this is Karakorum.

To be honest, I do not even know what photographs of the Karakorum ruins to place here, because I am not sure what I'm seeing there. Yet, this one deserves our attention:
  • Like many cities in Mongolia, Karakorum started life as a nomadic camp - and a nomadic city leaves few ruins behind. In fact, of the old city, only a stone tortoise remains.
Meanwhile, they are digging out stuff like this.

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And want to convince us that on top of the stone pillars were meant to support this reconstructed structure: The Great Hall of Karakorum (Mongolia)

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By the way, this here is Kublai Khan giving financial support to Marco Polo. For looks and sizes...

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Outside of Karakorum we can find some decently looking ruins, but those will always be either stupas, pagodas, fortresses, temples, or palaces. They will never call those factories, power stations or universities. Meanwhile 30% of the Mongolians live in yurts today.

Togchin Temple Ruins
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Source

White House of Choghtu Khong Tayiji
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Source

Pagoda
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Source

Of course we need to remember that Tartaria, in all its vastness, was formerly known as Scythia, or so the old map says.

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And Scythians are attributed with some marvelous achievements: Scythian gold craftsmanship, where did it come from?


KD: Well, this is the history we have. As far as the ancient city of Karakorum goes, it's probably not that hard to find where to dig. As with everything else, UNESCO tells us where excavations are not permitted:
  • Nearby are the ruins of the ancient town of Karakorum (also known as Kharkhorum or Qara Qorum) which, for a short time, served as the capital of the Mongol Empire under Ogedei Khan.
  • Kharkhorin is located at the lower end of the upper valley of the Orkhon River which is included within UNESCO's World Heritage Site Orkhon Valley Cultural Landscape. The location marks the easternmost foothills of the Khangai Mountains, where they meet the rolling steppe of central Mongolia.
Where are the Tartarian "remains of great towns, and the ruins of fortresses, very nearly resembling those of the middle ages in Europe?" If I were to guess, 5 of those could be right here:
P.S. The main Tartary article: Tartary - an Empire hidden in history. It was bigger than Russia once...
 

HELLBOY

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It would be great if you reviewed The Systematic Purge / Destruction of Mongolian Culture, in which a large part of the population died.
Queen Genepil was executed in May 1938, shot as part of the Stalinist repressions in Mongolia, in which a large part of the population died.

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The capital of Mongolia, Ulaanbaatar, maintained trade with the Qing-Russian dynasty by the Treaty of Kyakhta in 1727, a caravan route was opened between Beijing and Kyakhta.
The Treaty of Kyakhta (or Kiakhta) together with the Treaty of Nerchinsk (1689), regulated the relations between Imperial Russia and the Qing Empire of China until the middle of the 19th century.

With the collapse of the Qing Empire in 1911, Mongolia's capital city was a focal point for independence efforts.

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There you can see Mongolia on today's map with the 1820 Qing Dynasty map.

Then we have The communist revolution of 1921 was a military and political event through which the Mongol revolutionaries, with the help of the Soviet Red Army, expelled the Russian White Guard from the country and in 1924 founded the Mongolian People's Republic. Although nominally independent, until 1990 the Mongolian People's Republic was a satellite state of the Soviet Union. The revolution also ended the Chinese occupation of Mongolia, which had existed since 1919.
1921 REVOLUCION MONGOLA.jpg

It is after this that Queen Genepil was executed in May 1938, shot as part of the Stalinist repressions in Mongolia, in which a large part of the population died.

It seemed very similar to what you showed with the boxer rebellion:
 
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  • Sonofabor

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    The Ching/Qing/清朝 were Tartars, according to many documents presented on this blog.

    To this day, Chinese draw a sharp distinction between "northern" and "southern" Chinese.
     

    HELLBOY

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    I had recommended this to Korben because it seems to be the continuation after the thread of the boxer rebellion, although I was very officialist historically for that reason I did not mention Tartary, this time I will try to explain myself better.

    According to Fomenko after the fall of Pugachev, Tatarstan began to lose ground slowly. Siberia was renamed: "Russian Tartary", however it can be seen in these three maps of 1789, 1818, 1820, that the Qing Tartar dynasty still retains a good part of territory including Mongolia and Tibeth, while Independent Tartary seems to be out of Russian control even, bordering with Persia, Mughal Empire.

    1789 Bonne, Rigobert  regiones importantes.jpg

    1789

    1818 Lizars, Daniel.jpg

    1818

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    1820

    Then comes the Crimean War (1853-1856), the country was defeated in the Crimean War (1853-1856) by an alliance of major European powers such as the United Kingdom, France, the Ottoman Empire and the Kingdom of Piedmont-Sardinia.

    Nicholas I of Russia, Alexander II (1855-1881), the man who supported Lincoln against the Confederates. Forced to undertake a series of comprehensive reforms and enacted in 1861 a decree abolishing serfdom.

    The Great Game is an expression used to describe the rivalry between the Russian Empire and the British Empire in their struggle for control of Central Asia and the Caucasus during the 19th century. Great Game - Wikipedia
    1837-1907
    Location Afghanistan, Persia, Turkmenistan, Turkmenistan and Tibet
    Result Afghanistan, Persia and Tibet considered buffer states
    Territorial changes The Khanates of Khiva, Joqand and Bukhara form the General Governorate of Turkestan under Russian rule.

    The British Empire sought to expand the Indian Empire and protect its interests there, while the Russian Empire wanted access to the Indian Ocean and the mineral wealth of Central Asia. A race for supremacy began and from 1813 to 1907.

    By the beginning of the 20th century, Central Asia was firmly in the hands of Russia and despite some resistance to the Bolsheviks, Uzbekistan (Independent Tatarstan) and the rest of Central Asia became part of the Soviet Union.

    It is also in 1901 the Boxer uprising, about 8 nations supported by 4 other countries against the Qing Tatar Dynasty. 1899-1901: Boxer Rebellion. What are they hiding?
    • It is here that I think the last traces of Tartary were erased in Mongolia.
    With the collapse of the Qing Empire in 1911, the Mongolian capital became a focal point for independence efforts.

    Then we have The Communist Revolution of 1921 was a military and political event whereby Mongolian revolutionaries, with the help of the Soviet Red Army, drove the Russian White Guard out of the country and in 1924 founded the Mongolian People's Republic.

    After this, Queen Genepil was executed in May 1938, shot as part of the Stalinist repressions in Mongolia, in which a large part of the population died.

    1921 REVOLUCION MONGOLA.jpg
    • In this Mongolian revolution of 1921 you can clearly see Socialist Mongolia and Socialist Russia against White Russia, Mongolia, China (not yet socialist), supported by Japan. I think that here was the last purge for those who did not forget the recently fallen Tartar past.
    • These socialisms in China, Russia, Mongolia, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, may have had an end, eliminating the traces of Tartary from people's memory. Add to that the world wars.
     

    Acatus

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    Check this out, from the newest James Bond movie, No Time to Die

    Iraq and Mongolia are erased? Bombed? Looks like they had to finish the job they started with WW1.

    Someone care to check 1600s world maps to see what special landmarks they could have erased?

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